PvP Ele, no dmg

[Croc]

So I main spec resto, I'm full dreadful, I switched to ele for some fun in bgs but...wheres the dmg? My lava burst hit for 40k....40k come on thats pittyful. Yes, sometimes 2 or 3 go off at once but thats rng. I macro'd all my burst together, asendance, bloodfury, fire elemental, and spirtwalkers grace (4 set resto makes me immune to silence). With all this popped I still have a hard time killing..well anything. Plus even being full dreadful I seem to die in silences. The only thing I can think is ele is not a burst class but a utility class. If I'm doing something wrong please say, don't go on that its because I'm resto gear, I still have tons of pvp power. Anyone out there ripping it up? lol, please post a vid

[ITIorpheus]

Dps shamans are squishy, from what i've seen all they can do is blow all CD's and have the enemy laugh at the pityful damage.

[Croc]

lol just did eye of the storm, 29k lava burst. lol. 40k must have been on ungeared peeps. Should reroll lock and hit for 150k. I reakon get rid of the instant lava burst proc, keep the cd around 8-10 secs but make it hit like a truck, and I mean hard.

[Henkdejager]

did u had fire shock / unleah weapon up ?

[Croc]

I had flame shock up, these are 29k crits. Didn't have unleash weapon tho.

[zenga]

Elemental is a terrible pvp spec relative to most other specs, it's that simple. It's been reported by multiple people months ago, people who actually played tons of wargames on the beta, not just some duels and bgs. It's described in detail in various other topics on this board. And quite often the argument that this was not true came from people, with all respect, didn't do anything else but a couple of duels and bgs. Both the damage and the defence is lacking, not much else to say about it.

[mrinvisable2]

yeh dmg is pathetic thats wy i go as resto in arenas wanted to be ele but yehh lvb hits like baby and lv cant be cast without inerupts . ant ppl start ignore even ascendance its so easy to heal trough it . go frost dk or warr for 70k obliterates , and with astral shift i take 70-90 k dragoon roars 70-90 k heroic strikes or 70 k shockwaves so avoid shaman dps like plague i eaven havent seen enh shaman in arenas and few eles

[Northy]

Is Elemental being shit in PvP for another expansion intentional?

[zenga]

Is Elemental being shit in PvP for another expansion intentional?

I don't buy the intentional. I only see 2 possibilities: they don't care that it crap or they have not the expertise. Not having the expertise is pure speculation, but it makes sense to me that each dev is not as good with spec A as with spec B, and thus are less able to predict those small changes that means the world. Because in theory it always sounds nice, and they do listen to player feedback as well. But the way its implemented is always causing other drawbacks.

That they don't care is also very possible. One of most stunning reasons to believe that is glyph of ele mastery. They knew and admitted that ele were squishy and could use another defensive cd way back in cata. And it never changed, while they could've easily increased the % of damage reduced on the glyph since it would affect ele only.

Another way to look at it: with ele shaman being pretty much centred around ascendance, you can imagine what would happen in pve if they were to say buff lava burst with 20% for pvp reasons. There is - with the current design - little they can do that doesn't require an overhaul on the damage end of the spec. Defensively and unility wise there are plenty of little things they can do though to make it viable. Maybe the damage would still not be there, but at least we could stay alive long enough to outplay them.

[Chainreactor]

Lava Burst Overload
Lava Surge
Ascendance

All three contribute to the mediocre damage Lava Burst deals in PvP
Enough with the RNG already

And what the hell is up with Lightning Bolt?

Since Ele is the squishiest caster class in game give us access to reliable and absurdly high Burst

A Fire Mage and Destro Lock who have far superior Kiting and Survival tools can burst significantly higher

BALANCE

[Blitond]

I don't buy the intentional. I only see 2 possibilities: they don't care that it crap or they have not the expertise. Not having the expertise is pure speculation, but it makes sense to me that each dev is not as good with spec A as with spec B, and thus are less able to predict those small changes that means the world. Because in theory it always sounds nice, and they do listen to player feedback as well. But the way its implemented is always causing other drawbacks.

I think it is intentional. I hate to be so negative, but imo it's the truth. When they changed to the class specialization design they could have easily addressed Elemental weaknesses in PvP w/o touching resto, but they chose not to. I understood their argument before because resto was so OP and didn't need any buffs (actually needed nerfs) and changing something for Elemental might have made them even better.

Personally I think the game developers are still mad cause they get t-stormed off LM/EoTS

That they don't care is also very possible. One of most stunning reasons to believe that is glyph of ele mastery. They knew and admitted that ele were squishy and could use another defensive cd way back in cata. And it never changed, while they could've easily increased the % of damage reduced on the glyph since it would affect ele only.

Another way to look at it: with ele shaman being pretty much centred around ascendance, you can imagine what would happen in pve if they were to say buff lava burst with 20% for pvp reasons. There is - with the current design - little they can do that doesn't require an overhaul on the damage end of the spec. Defensively and unility wise there are plenty of little things they can do though to make it viable. Maybe the damage would still not be there, but at least we could stay alive long enough to outplay them.

There is a lot of directions they could take, but I seriously doubt they will take any. They have homogenized shaman as a class so much that changing anything will have a meaningful impact on other specs and PvE.

[Management]

Is it really this bad? I haven't had the chance to try my main (enhance) in PvP as I have only had time to level my new monk alt. But really, is elemental this bad? I think in cataclysm they were bad, but they could still pack a punch with those bursts. How is enhance btw? Anyone know?

[Endus]

I think it is intentional. I hate to be so negative, but imo it's the truth. When they changed to the class specialization design they could have easily addressed Elemental weaknesses in PvP w/o touching resto, but they chose not to.

See, no. That's garbage. For MoP, Elemental has gotten;
1> Improved defenses. We lost some passive defense, but most everyone did. We gained damage reduction tools we lacked, a net relative gain.
2> Improved self-healing. Healing Surge with the passive buff is pretty darn solid, and that's before we factor in the T5 talents, particularly Ancestral Guidance for PvP.
3> Improved burst. Ascendance is huge. Elemental Mastery is no slouch either. If you're talking about our "burst" outside of those cooldowns, you aren't really talking about our burst, because you're excluding a significant part of it for no really good reason.
4> Better control. We have more control options now than we've had before, additional stuns and mobility tools, a much reduced CD on Thunderstorm as well.


I'm not saying these are all super mega awesomemazing OP, but they're ways the Elemental toolkit was improved over Cata. Saying they didn't address Elemental's issues is simply not true. They may not have addressed them to the full degree that you wanted to see, but that's not remotely the same thing.

You can't say they aren't even trying when your argument is actually that they haven't quite done enough.

Personally I think the game developers are still mad cause they get t-stormed off LM/EoTS

If that were true, why'd they add the Thunderstorm reduction to our PvP gear?

[paror]

You can't say they aren't even trying when your argument is actually that they haven't quite done enough.

It's more like they always seem to not do quite enough, season after season. Why just not give us something normal instead of retarded capicator stun totem and easly avoidable/downlockable burst wich isnt high even. 50k crits? A warlock can crit over 200k on 2 targets at once(havoc). Tell me why we can't have that.

[Rawfury]

Pve i think im more comfortable with more gear. Although rng heavy i think we could benefit from a little bit more sustained damage. Maybe a bump in our mastery or our core spells ONLY though ele(similiar to the minor lightningbuff we got). Most eles are sitting at about 30% mastery proc percentage seeing it a bit higher per mastery point i think could help sustain damage a bit this is just my opinion though. I dont get how i could do 55k single target on a stand still fight without cds then 34k another time.

Now...
Pvp on the other hand is just tough because we have to be left alone to do much. With melee having more mobility and cc reductions/immunities it makes bgs very stressful at times. Between the ccs, silences, stuns, etc its what makes elemental feel useless or pointless. I will agree there are moments of enjoyment but its very rare or only when ascendance is popped(most are smart enough to cc you since you stick out like a red flag). The damage from our main spells are downright laughable is what i can see as a main problem though. I havent arena'd but from what ive been hearing i dont think i want too

[evokanu]

Why just not give us something normal instead of retarded capicator stun totem.

That totem is hardly retarded, use the totem relocation ability together with it and it becomes hard to avoid.

[Mybrightsky]

at rawfury, i've played arena as ele, and i only have one thing to say, DO NOT DO IT. it's sad really, sure against double casters it can work out, but against a melee u are totally fucked. did 2s with a boomkin, and every game he was the one doing dmg, because every time ppl focused me down ( i know they were stupid to do that ) but basically shamans are pitiful in pvp, well atleast ele and enhancement, cuz other classes have far better cc, mobility etc, and not to mention dmg. I mean cmon, we have what, 3 ccs? capacitor, frost shock ( with frozen power ) and hex, and both the totem and hex have 45 sec cd, so if one of them fails u are doomed for the next 45 sec, im just gonna leave my shaman for PVE and focus on my dk now.

[mrinvisable2]

See, no. That's garbage. For MoP, Elemental has gotten;
1> Improved defenses. We lost some passive defense, but most everyone did. We gained damage reduction tools we lacked, a net relative gain.
2> Improved self-healing. Healing Surge with the passive buff is pretty darn solid, and that's before we factor in the T5 talents, particularly Ancestral Guidance for PvP.
3> Improved burst. Ascendance is huge. Elemental Mastery is no slouch either. If you're talking about our "burst" outside of those cooldowns, you aren't really talking about our burst, because you're excluding a significant part of it for no really good reason.
4> Better control. We have more control options now than we've had before, additional stuns and mobility tools, a much reduced CD on Thunderstorm as well.


I'm not saying these are all super mega awesomemazing OP, but they're ways the Elemental toolkit was improved over Cata. Saying they didn't address Elemental's issues is simply not true. They may not have addressed them to the full degree that you wanted to see, but that's not remotely the same thing.






If that were true, why'd they add the Thunderstorm reduction to our PvP gear?

well we got things but other clases got stuff on top of what they had but we lost a lot , ascendance is useless in arenas if he is able to get some casts its just minor easy to heal trough it warriors mele hits hit as hard non crit as lvb crits
and i think ele because of ascendance is forced to use resto gear as thunderstorm is pathetic seems it throws ppl 5 yards away only and you cant get away from mele so easy anymore earth grab doesnt healp thatmuch eather

[Blitond]

See, no. That's garbage. For MoP, Elemental has gotten;
1> Improved defenses. We lost some passive defense, but most everyone did. We gained damage reduction tools we lacked, a net relative gain.

Yeah great take away an ability and put it in a talent net gain right? Or mediocre defensive cd that can't be used when silenced or stunned, net gain right?

If you think Elementals defenses have improved over Cata in a PvP sense then I don't know what to say except get out of the 1200 bracket and fight competent opponents. You have to look at what other classes got in MoP as well, you can't just look at a narrow analysis of past and present.

2> Improved self-healing. Healing Surge with the passive buff is pretty darn solid, and that's before we factor in the T5 talents, particularly Ancestral Guidance for PvP.

The healing surge buff was nice I'll give you that. Ancestral Guidance for PvP lolololol! Wow you should actually PvP before commenting, just saying. Any DPS will sit on you making the talent worthless for PvP. At least with HTT you get a few ticks before they kill it.

3> Improved burst. Ascendance is huge. Elemental Mastery is no slouch either. If you're talking about our "burst" outside of those cooldowns, you aren't really talking about our burst, because you're excluding a significant part of it for no really good reason.

Yeah, and teams just leave a freecasting elemental shaman alone when they pop ascendance . Stop justifying bad play from your opponents as a success. If Ascendance had a immunity to silences/interrupts then you might have a point, but they can't add that because it will make resto OP.

4> Better control. We have more control options now than we've had before, additional stuns and mobility tools, a much reduced CD on Thunderstorm as well.

Yeah competent players just let capacitor go off. The only class the reduced TS helps against is DK's, other melee its just a mild nuisance. And by additional mobility you mean the 15% run speed nerf right? There's no point to giving a class a snare/root and then making every melee practically immune to them. Add in dispels and good luck keeping any melee off you.

I'm not saying these are all super mega awesomemazing OP, but they're ways the Elemental toolkit was improved over Cata. Saying they didn't address Elemental's issues is simply not true. They may not have addressed them to the full degree that you wanted to see, but that's not remotely the same thing.

You can't say they aren't even trying when your argument is actually that they haven't quite done enough.

So if elemental did 1% more damage in PvE from level 85 to 90 and other classes did say 100%, then you would say that is an improvement?

If that were true, why'd they add the Thunderstorm reduction to our PvP gear?

That was a bad attempt at a joke. Sarcasm doesn't come across well in forums.

[Mybrightsky]

pvp ele = MAY work against casters if u can cast. WILL NOT work against melee's especially warrs and rogues, cuz u will not be able to cast a shit, but if u do manage to get some lava bursts off, GG anyways, doing like 40k-50 crits, while the warr is nonstop hitting u for that with auto attack, well u get my point. just waaaaaaaay to low dmg on shamans atm, which makes me cry. least favored class of blizz nuff said, compared to mages