1. #1
    Blademaster Mutuwa's Avatar
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    Blood: Haste as a tanking stat.

    Hey guys!

    With MoP out, I've started to tank as MS, and was wondering if anyone considered going Mastery > Hit/Exp > Haste > Avoidance (with caps being optional) yet? I know some high-end tanks went with Haste during 4.3 - Probably when stuff was on farm, however still valid point.
    The reason Haste works well, is due to it supporting Mastery as our main stat because of the increase in DS's we'll be able to pull.
    So my questions are;
    Does the fact that we should, to decrease the danger of burst damage, be reactive on our DS casts rather than maximizing the DS/min-count diminish the value of Haste?

    Because of the standard 1.0 sec GCD in all presences now, is Haste worse than in 4.3 for tanks?

    I have to admit that I, as a tank, still try my best to give the dps opponence on the meters - am I a baddie?

    And most importantly I guess; is this too early? Is pure avoidance better until the healers are better geared?

    Thanks a lot fellas, I hope this can bring up an interesting discussion.
    Best regards.
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    "With the death of the The Lich King, all I have left is my duty. There is no family, there are no friends... there is only this. War."

  2. #2
    I haven't played in a while, but I started going with Haste in Heroic Firelands. Tanks dying just wasn't an issue at that time. I never found myself getting close to death pretty much ever, dps was just more important and our raid wasn't reaching the numbers we needed to. Ended up getting top 5 in Alysrazor and top 20 in a few other fights.

  3. #3
    Blademaster Mutuwa's Avatar
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    I see, you primarily went with Haste because of damage reasons, amirite?
    I'm interested in Haste as a mitigation stat - besides, I'm already ahead of dps on all fights, lol.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...utawa/advanced

    "With the death of the The Lich King, all I have left is my duty. There is no family, there are no friends... there is only this. War."

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Don't give tanks any more reason roll need on my shit please

  6. #6
    Blademaster Mutuwa's Avatar
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    Right, I'll give you guys an example of the pieces of gear I had in mind. A good example are the Valor Point necks. The tanking necklace lacks Mastery, has a high amount of Parry and some Hit.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Paragon%27s_Pale_Pendant

    The str dps necklace has Mastery and Haste, while maintaining same Str and Stam.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Bloodseeker%27s_Solitaire

    I feel that, in this specific situation, the dps neck would be the choice to go with.
    Opinions?

    Best regards.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...utawa/advanced

    "With the death of the The Lich King, all I have left is my duty. There is no family, there are no friends... there is only this. War."

  7. #7
    It really wouldn't surprise me if the value of haste is that high.

    As a monk after Hit/exp caps then I pretty much want mastery and haste.

  8. #8
    Blademaster Mutuwa's Avatar
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    Velosite, is this from a tanking perspective? I'm really ignorant concerning Monks this far, so the Hit/Exp got me confused whether you were speaking Brewmaster or Windwalker

    Sorry for my stupidity lol.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...utawa/advanced

    "With the death of the The Lich King, all I have left is my duty. There is no family, there are no friends... there is only this. War."

  9. #9
    If you were going for hit/exp caps as a blood dk (for the dps increase) then the neck reforged to mastery would be the way to go. Otherwise the dps neck all the way.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Zethras's Avatar
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    Haste is a quirky stat for blood dks.

    Haste increases the rate at which our runes come off CD, which is fantastic, in fact the best example of this is when bloodlust is popped, my runes come down to like 4 seconds, which means more DS per second. However, we would need monstrous amounts of it before it started to be REALLY beneficial to us over avoidance.

    So, unless we could magically conjure up like, 10k haste permanently, it won't ever be better the avoidance.
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  11. #11
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutuwa View Post
    Right, I'll give you guys an example of the pieces of gear I had in mind. A good example are the Valor Point necks. The tanking necklace lacks Mastery, has a high amount of Parry and some Hit.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Paragon%27s_Pale_Pendant

    The str dps necklace has Mastery and Haste, while maintaining same Str and Stam.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Bloodseeker%27s_Solitaire

    I feel that, in this specific situation, the dps neck would be the choice to go with.
    Opinions?

    Best regards.
    Honestly - in this case I'd go with the dps neck for the mastery. The haste can be reforged into dodge or parry



  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutuwa View Post
    Hey guys!

    With MoP out, I've started to tank as MS, and was wondering if anyone considered going Mastery > Hit/Exp > Haste > Avoidance (with caps being optional) yet? I know some high-end tanks went with Haste during 4.3 - Probably when stuff was on farm, however still valid point.
    The reason Haste works well, is due to it supporting Mastery as our main stat because of the increase in DS's we'll be able to pull.
    So my questions are;
    Does the fact that we should, to decrease the danger of burst damage, be reactive on our DS casts rather than maximizing the DS/min-count diminish the value of Haste?

    Because of the standard 1.0 sec GCD in all presences now, is Haste worse than in 4.3 for tanks?

    I have to admit that I, as a tank, still try my best to give the dps opponence on the meters - am I a baddie?

    And most importantly I guess; is this too early? Is pure avoidance better until the healers are better geared?

    Thanks a lot fellas, I hope this can bring up an interesting discussion.
    Best regards.
    You will probably need to do some testing to see how it feels for you. From what I've been researching on all the tanks you can either go:

    1) Hit/Exp -> Mastery -> Haste -> Dodge/Parry (This providers faster resource generation for your Active Mitigation abilities and depending on class can either be smoother or spikier)

    2) Hit/Exp -> Mastery -> Dodge / Parry -> Haste (This one still has the chance to be spiky, but can provide smoother damage on some fights)

    The major complaint I've been reading is that tanks are starting to have to gear up in a way dps would and dodge/parry won't really shine till maybe final tiers, if not the opposite of Haste shining instead (hard to tell at this point).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutuwa View Post
    Velosite, is this from a tanking perspective? I'm really ignorant concerning Monks this far, so the Hit/Exp got me confused whether you were speaking Brewmaster or Windwalker

    Sorry for my stupidity lol.
    If a brewmaster misses his Keg Smash, or it gets parried/dodged, it gets put on CD and we don't get the Chi, so its mandatory for brewmasters to be hit capped.

    OT:
    I wouldn't be suprised if Haste was that valuable.
    For Brewmasters, DPS stats are more valuable then dodge/parry/mastery.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    Haste is a quirky stat for blood dks.

    Haste increases the rate at which our runes come off CD, which is fantastic, in fact the best example of this is when bloodlust is popped, my runes come down to like 4 seconds, which means more DS per second. However, we would need monstrous amounts of it before it started to be REALLY beneficial to us over avoidance.

    So, unless we could magically conjure up like, 10k haste permanently, it won't ever be better the avoidance.
    Napkin maths:
    I don't feel this is an accurate judgement; all incremental values are incremental. You need 885 rating (pre-DR) to gain 1% avoidance, and 425 rating to get 1% Haste. Comparing 295 rating (arbitrary number) you would gain 0.25% dodge pre-DR or .694%~ Haste. Sure, that Haste might not on its own do that much, but neither will the 0.25% dodge - against a 1.8 swing speed boss for a 3 minute fight (once again, arbitrary figures) with 100% boss uptime, you're looking at 100 swings, so taking the dodge over the haste should give you on average one quarter of a boss swing extra avoided per encounter.

    If you're going to say that a small amount of haste rating does nothing, then you also need to compare what a small amount of avoidance rating does; it also does not much. What adds up is when you stack lots of it. Playing Blood with a high haste rating in Cataclysm was pretty damn fun.

  15. #15
    I've taken the route of haste as well in past tiers and can tell you it works fantastic. The issue comes into you need to find out what % of dodge/parry you need as a base. Pre tiers I found myself around the 20% bracket if I remember correctly and then went reforging all other possible stats into haste and gemming stamina. Went the stamina route for the obvious reasons that our abilities give us % of max HP.

    I hate how mastery only gives us protection over melee damage so I've never tried to max that stat after the first tier I did with my DK.

    Also a lot of people get stuck on the whole avoidance which is understanable BUT if you kill the boss 30 seconds faster with haste your mitigating that avoidance as well. I'll be honest in I could never workout that math to theorycraft it but it does make sense.

    Edit: Just looking at the tier set for DK's I'm looking at getting the chest, helm, hands, and legs for the 4 piece set to up DS by 10%. Shoulders from HOF Pauldrons of the broken blade just look better.
    Last edited by pimpeddakota; 2012-10-10 at 10:24 AM.
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