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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Completely optional suggests that choosing not to do it will grant you equal benefit or choosing to do something else will grant you the same benefit. This is clearly not the case. You guys are getting hung up on the fact that people think they need this gear. Obviously they don't. nobody needs anything in warcraft. However if the options aren't equal and one grants more reward than the other then it's clearly not a choice. I mean think about how crazy that is. Who the fuck would PURPOSELY slow themselves down and purposely refuse to take an avenue that's been made available to them? Of course they feel forced the other choices suck balls.
    Well, I was specifically referring to the token of good fortune with that statement. It's not required, but yeah people will go get it. Have you argued that there need to be alternate ways to get herbs for potions and food for cooking back in BC and Wrath? Because the token of good fortune is basically the replacement for having to grind mats for raid boosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    First of all that just goes to the argument that really nobody likes daily content or at least very few people do. The only reason they do it is because theirs a reward for it and a pretty good one so that they all just feel like they have to. I mean let's say dungeons granted you faster rep but dailies still granted you the rep they give you now. YOU COULD STILL RUN DAILIES WHAT HAPPENED GUYS? no of course you would all flock to the fucking dungoens or at least the vast majority of you would. Being forced to do something isn't about having literally no other options, it's about having no other options that are as good an as rewarding.

    Second of all okay make it all even then. I'm not sure how you think dungeons in general require less effort, their both pretty much the same so let's just make the gain you could get with a tabard equal to what you'd get out doing dailes. And then see how many people still do dailies.
    The same can be said about PvP. People claim it's fun and the fact that it's more challenging than PvE due to unpredictable factors, but they want to zerg AV for efficient grinding rather than engage in PvP.

    Which in my opinion goes back to the source. People think they should be able to quickly and efficiently complete what they want and have no restrictions to whatever they want. I blame Blizzard over the years for allowing this mentality to seep into the genre, but it's also what got them to 12 million players at one point. Genie's out of the bottle and the genre is going to suffer for it.

    If you took the MoP model and put it in Classic or BC, players would see it as they will take longer to get there, but they'll get there eventually. Now some will complain it's slow and inefficient. :/
    Last edited by Faroth; 2012-10-09 at 06:15 PM.
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noahsmith37 View Post
    I think I may have just found my new quote haha!

    I understand some of the point people are trying to make about the dailies, however, the main point behind removing the cap and adding in tons of dailies, was to add variety. It was not put there to try and increase the work load of players. For one, it is to allow someone with only a day or two to play, the same availability of things, as someone that could do a few per day. You don't have to do every single quest every single day. Then of course, Blizzard also doesn't want you jumping to defeat Bowser on hard mode during week 1, they want you to work through all the various things to get more capable and get there.
    Sadly while that may have been their intent it didn't work. I still do the same thing I did in cataclysm, only now instead of grinding a dungeon I spend that same 30 minutes doing the same thing everday and going afk in storm/org.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 06:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Well, I was specifically referring to the token of good fortune with that statement. It's not required, but yeah people will go get it. Have you argued that there need to be alternate ways to get herbs for potions and food for cooking back in BC and Wrath? Because the token of good fortune is basically the replacement for having to grind mats for raid boosts.
    Cooking is balls anyway so I don't really care. Herbs are a different matter entirely. That's a primary profession or alchemy is and potions and such may very well have to much benefit. I recall them moving away from thjings like that as well, mandatory or required raid consumables.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #303
    You don't have to do all of them every day, I have done and I've got more than 290 tokens having already handed them in this week.
    One cannot simply quit wow his way into Mordor.

  4. #304
    all i ever read was how easy cata was and how BC was the best. now they go back to roots and they complain. its a cycle of shit.

  5. #305
    The cloud serpent rep is terrible, there were eggs spawning so fast people couldn't loot them all fast enough so Blizzard decided to nerf it into the ground. I've been doing them every day for almost 10 days, check for eggs at least 30-45 mins while doing the dailies, and I've never seen a single egg, or even a person looting a single egg.

    They always do that, have drop rates super high and then word gets out on an exploit forum about getting the item in a matter of minutes, then they destroy the functionality for everyone else for the rest of the game. It's no different than the battered hilt. I saw like 10 of them drop on the first day, then never again for a year.

    Give me something I can farm with some level of sanity (the shards in Dreadwastes are not acceptable, for example) and let me consume the content at my pace.

    The worst moment in the history of his game for me, was a few nights ago when I was going to work on leveling an alt. Then I remembered I forgot to do my golden lotus dailies. Since I didn't want to be another day behind, I went and did that instead. Having your play time dictating by artifical content gating is a poor decision.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Cooking is balls anyway so I don't really care. Herbs are a different matter entirely. That's a primary profession or alchemy is and potions and such may very well have to much benefit. I recall them moving away from thjings like that as well, mandatory or required raid consumables.
    Food buff and potions have always been optional, but in the past you'd sometimes have multiple players gathering mats for raid components to give themselves an edge. That's what had players out in the world, that's where world pvp over elementals in Nagrand cropped up (which I've seen escalate into small battlefields). Not everyone did it, though.

    Even in BC food and potions were mandatory or required. Just like now, the token of good fortune for an extra chance at loot is not mandatory nor required.

    It's also all fairly front loaded. I suspect people will find the tokens less desirable as time goes by since you'll only be using them on specific bosses that have been unkind to you. At first, some will use them frequently and less later on.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  7. #307
    Any time Blizzard adds anything to the game which gives an appreciable reward, a certain segment of hardcore players will complain that they're being forced to do the content. Because they feel forced to do anything which adds to progression. The only thing that would stop these kinds of complaints is if Blizzard added content with rewards that are purely cosmetic or useless to raiders. Then raiders could really just log in for raids and then log out after...which is something else they'll complain about. I guess there's just no way of getting around the complaints.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Well, I was specifically referring to the token of good fortune with that statement. It's not required, but yeah people will go get it. Have you argued that there need to be alternate ways to get herbs for potions and food for cooking back in BC and Wrath? Because the token of good fortune is basically the replacement for having to grind mats for raid boosts.



    The same can be said about PvP. People claim it's fun and the fact that it's more challenging than PvE due to unpredictable factors, but they want to zerg AV for efficient grinding rather than engage in PvP.

    Which in my opinion goes back to the source. People think they should be able to quickly and efficiently complete what they want and have no restrictions to whatever they want. I blame Blizzard over the years for allowing this mentality to seep into the genre, but it's also what got them to 12 million players at one point. Genie's out of the bottle and the genre is going to suffer for it.

    If you took the MoP model and put it in Classic or BC, players would see it as they will take longer to get there, but they'll get there eventually. Now some will complain it's slow and inefficient. :/
    Good I'm glad you recognize that time has gone by and what made Blizzards game a success is making it progressively more and more accessible and allowing players what they want to do. As for zerging AV it is the best way to make honor. Running preform Avs is so much better. I mean yea of course people are ognna do it. I don't why that's a problem though?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkjester56 View Post
    all i ever read was how easy cata was and how BC was the best. now they go back to roots and they complain. its a cycle of shit.
    There would be almost no complaints if there was just one alternative per faction to get rep that wasn't some insanely mind crushing grind. 10 rep per mob killed in Dreadwastes for Klaxxi rep, or Mogu in Vale killed would be a HUGE improvement, and people could consume the content at their own pace.

  10. #310
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    OH NOES, WE HAVE TO WORK FOR BONUS CHANCE ON RAID GEAR!?!? CALL THE NERD COPS! THIS CANNOT GO UNCHECKED!!!

    Seriously... For the first time in 2-3 years we have a somewhat "grindy" feature in the game that rewards gear, it's optional. If you don't do it then that's your fault, for those who do it they should be rewarded with things like valor gear and vanity gear. If you're not a serious raider (or gamer) then don't fucking do the dailies and gear up in LFR instead.

    Just because something takes time and somewhat a daily effort doesn't mean it's bad. I like it hell a lot more than the casual fucking weekly caps and shit like that... people who WANT and CAN spend more time in the game SHOULD get rewarded more than those who dont...
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  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Any time Blizzard adds anything to the game which gives an appreciable reward, a certain segment of hardcore players will complain that they're being forced to do the content. Because they feel forced to do anything which adds to progression. The only thing that would stop these kinds of complaints is if Blizzard added content with rewards that are purely cosmetic or useless to raiders. Then raiders could really just log in for raids and then log out after...which is something else they'll complain about. I guess there's just no way of getting around the complaints.
    That's exactly what the rep vendors should have. In fact in TBC dailies that's all they had. Cosmetic BS. And gold.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 06:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    Food buff and potions have always been optional, but in the past you'd sometimes have multiple players gathering mats for raid components to give themselves an edge. That's what had players out in the world, that's where world pvp over elementals in Nagrand cropped up (which I've seen escalate into small battlefields). Not everyone did it, though.

    Even in BC food and potions were mandatory or required. Just like now, the token of good fortune for an extra chance at loot is not mandatory nor required.

    It's also all fairly front loaded. I suspect people will find the tokens less desirable as time goes by since you'll only be using them on specific bosses that have been unkind to you. At first, some will use them frequently and less later on.
    I remember being expected to bring alot of shit to raid, including god awful destruction potions. Stuff in felwood to that was a free heal in addition to the potions and bandages. Can't remember what it was called. Or nightmare seeds and fel shield herbalism thing. You click it it gives you a bubble. Any advantage really.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Good I'm glad you recognize that time has gone by and what made Blizzards game a success is making it progressively more and more accessible and allowing players what they want to do. As for zerging AV it is the best way to make honor. Running preform Avs is so much better. I mean yea of course people are ognna do it. I don't why that's a problem though?
    It's a problem when you're trying to design a game that has to have an extended life cycle before the next cycle of content is available, but you're expected to make everything accessible and easily obtainable with minimal effort and maximum efficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I remember being expected to bring alot of shit to raid, including god awful destruction potions. Stuff in felwood to that was a free heal in addition to the potions and bandages. Can't remember what it was called. Or nightmare seeds and fel shield herbalism thing. You click it it gives you a bubble. Any advantage really.
    BUT, did Blizzard demand you do that?
    Was the content POSSIBLE without it? Yes, it was. The raid group determines its requirements and that's where the expectation came from.

    Your raid might expect you to have tokens of good fortune and be expecting you to use them every chance you can. My raid group won't be faced with any such requirement.
    Before Mists of Pandaria wraps up, I have full confidence we'll have completed all the raids and we'll have a comfortable amount of time on farm or to do old raids for the hell of it, etc.

    Outside of server firsts, I think everyone would benefit from slowing down a little and relaxing on the push to tackle everything quickly.

    But I am still being drawn on board with some of the rep alternative suggestions.

    That's exactly what the rep vendors should have. In fact in TBC dailies that's all they had. Cosmetic BS. And gold.
    Justice points also didn't get you anything worth having by the time dailies were introduced. There was no such thing as "run heroics for Tier gear" then and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single justice badge epic that could match something past Karazhan either.

    And maybe that would be best. Valor/Justice point gear at revered (rep gained through dailies or heroics with weekly limit) only for gear to get into the intro raids. After that, raid or LFR are the sources of gear with exception of any new heroics introduced in patches.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2012-10-09 at 06:33 PM.
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  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    The worst moment in the history of his game for me, was a few nights ago when I was going to work on leveling an alt. Then I remembered I forgot to do my golden lotus dailies. Since I didn't want to be another day behind, I went and did that instead. Having your play time dictating by artifical content gating is a poor decision.
    No it isn't. I don't find the "gating" to be a bad thing, even if it is artificial it will extend the content and I will always be left with something to do because I hate being afk in SW.

    Dailies aren't for everyone and prior to MoP I never did them, but am actually fine with doing them this time around. The charms / valor that I get are bonus to me, I do dailies for rep nothing else.

    As I start to get exalted with all the factions, I will stop doing those dailies eventually and will be glad to have a stock pile of charms to turn in so that I don't have to keep doing them at exalted for nothing.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    The worst moment in the history of his game for me, was a few nights ago when I was going to work on leveling an alt. Then I remembered I forgot to do my golden lotus dailies. Since I didn't want to be another day behind, I went and did that instead. Having your play time dictating by artifical content gating is a poor decision.
    But yet the 100 posting in these threads can't wrap their heads around how that is bad. Instead they are going to insult you for wanting more out of the game than grinding away on one character, tell you that this game isn't designed to have alts (hahahaha), and that you just want free epics.

    Instead, your post accurately sums up what the entirety of this argument should be. Blizzard is heading the wrong direction in terms of improving the state of MMOs in order to bring back and forcefully keep subs.

    No longer can people who raid knock out everything and then quit until a new raid comes out, because anything you want to do in the game takes months of investment now. Not in a fun and engaging way, where you aren't penalized for every decision but to do what you're told, but in a drill sgt give me pushups or get bent kinda way.

    After 2 weeks of straight daily grinding I realize I needed to stop doing them or else I was going to hate the game and cancel my subscription immediately. I still want to level all 11 of my character, of course seeing a monk to the top. If I have to sacrifice having any sort of progression in the game for this, then so be it, but I won't be continuing to support that ideology with my money.

    1 hour of GW2 is more rewarding regardless of my level than what I can get in WoW doing anything but dailies at 90. I much prefer my choice or illusion thereof.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    They always do that, have drop rates super high and then word gets out on an exploit forum about getting the item in a matter of minutes, then they destroy the functionality for everyone else for the rest of the game. It's no different than the battered hilt. I saw like 10 of them drop on the first day, then never again for a year.
    I do think this sucks. Really this is the only valid complaint I hear re: the MOP reputations. Blizzard QA fucking up and 'hotfixing' with only neckbeards reaping the rewards from it has been an issue in WOW (and with MMOs in general) since the beginning of time. Nature of the beast. Putting the good patterns/enchants on them and then letting only people available for the early days of the release MURDER the auction house or skip entire week-long grinds because of bad testing on the eggs, peace pipes etc. was an ugly move for joe casual. Joe casual technically doesn't need those high-end enchants or silly dragonmounts anyways though

    But hey, if you wanna get in on the good stuff before it gets hotfixed, use those five vacation days on release week and be on the forums and in-game all day, no-lifing. Pandaria isn't gonna sit around and wait for you to have free time from the wife and kids. I'm pissed I missed out on the peace pipes. If it was still 2003 and I was in mom's basement I probably would have made a million gold off of those shits, but I can't play like that anymore and I accept that. Fatty Neckbeard is always going to have more time, connections, and exploiting resources than you. Those with the time to spend will get the good shit and that is just how it goes.

    Which brings me back to the dailies themselves. They're NOT fun. Dailies are an ANCIENT MMO mechanic that can't die fast enough for me. I can't wait for some new game to come out in ten years that has free-form sandbox gameplay and no leveling. Ultima Online 2 or whatever.

    But guess what? That ain't happening for a while, and I want some of the things WOW dailies provide my character with in the mean time, so I'm gonna do the hell out of 'em. I'm gonna suck it up and do dailies every day. I even buy consumables and bring friends to power game through them every single day. Not willing to do that? Enjoy your flying cloud and blue ilevel 458 gear until you hit 460 to play the LFR lottery.

    Or you can quit, and I'll see ya in Skyrim! Oh wait no I won't, It's fucking single player - no grinds!

    smile!! Hearts loves you!!

  16. #316
    One of the nice things is, when you hit Exalted with a faction you don't *have* to do a single daily for them ever again, in fact you get new dailies to replace them. I'm done with Cloud Serpents and about to be done with Tillers, at which point I'll just do Shao-Pan, GL, Klaxxi and AC.

    I'm almost done with Klaxxi as well, about a week away I estimate. It's working out nicely. I thought it would be horrible but after they implement the double-boost for alts, it might not be so bad.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    I thought it would be horrible but after they implement the double-boost for alts, it might not be so bad.
    Oh yeah, can't await that one. Also halving the required rep to get from Revered to Exalted.
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  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    But yet the 100 posting in these threads can't wrap their heads around how that is bad. Instead they are going to insult you for wanting more out of the game than grinding away on one character, tell you that this game isn't designed to have alts (hahahaha), and that you just want free epics.

    Instead, your post accurately sums up what the entirety of this argument should be. Blizzard is heading the wrong direction in terms of improving the state of MMOs in order to bring back and forcefully keep subs.

    No longer can people who raid knock out everything and then quit until a new raid comes out, because anything you want to do in the game takes months of investment now. Not in a fun and engaging way, where you aren't penalized for every decision but to do what you're told, but in a drill sgt give me pushups or get bent kinda way.

    After 2 weeks of straight daily grinding I realize I needed to stop doing them or else I was going to hate the game and cancel my subscription immediately. I still want to level all 11 of my character, of course seeing a monk to the top. If I have to sacrifice having any sort of progression in the game for this, then so be it, but I won't be continuing to support that ideology with my money.

    1 hour of GW2 is more rewarding regardless of my level than what I can get in WoW doing anything but dailies at 90. I much prefer my choice or illusion thereof.
    /facepalm

    I have a level 59 druid.
    I did dailies on my main, so I couldn't level that druid.
    However, I also cycled through every alt and did Darkmoon Faire for crafting bumps, which also prevented me from playing the druid.
    Or I could have played the druid and not done the other things.
    I could have leveled any of the alts, but then I couldn't run the main through heroics. Or I could run heroics and not level the alts.

    The expansion has been out less than a month. You honestly think in another month you're going to be stressing about doing dailies on your main and preventing you from playing alts? I'm guessing you'll be doing you raid night on the main and playing alts just as always.

    If 1 hour of GW2 is more rewarding at max level, play GW2.
    I find WoW more fun, both leveling and at max level, than I had leveling in GW2. I liked aspects of the game, but overall it's not really any different to me, so I play WoW.

    I don't see the comparison, though. It seems like GW2 is no more favorable on choosing your time on a main vs alt than any other MMO. I didn't like the 4 character limit too much and I didn't want to buy additional character slots.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  19. #319
    Atrahasis, you seem to have this extreme and irrational hatred of dailies, to the point where you feel compelled to tell us just how awful they are in every single thread about dialies or questing, and even in a few not even about dailies are questing.

  20. #320
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    so basically you guys are mad because you dont get those fortune thingies handed on a silver plate...

    yeah, its clearly bad design and not people themselves 8>

    its also still just the beginning of the xpack... just think about the changes we've seen while cataclysm, lfr wasnt there at launch, remember?
    i also wouldnt be surprised if the tillers are getting some additional features throughout the xpack.

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