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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    I'd love to see a cross-check of everyone complaining that dailies are too time consuming with people who complain that WoW has gone down the wrong path with making things too casual and handing you gear on a silver platter.

    It would be hillarious to compare all the "TBC was the best because you had to work for your reward" posters to the "dailies take too long and are too much of a grind" posters and see which names appear in both arguments.

    Hi there. Im a huge grinder, played since early Vanilla. In Vanilla I did big grinds like getting exalted AD as a druid (Slow grinder back then), epic mount for the 800g, and whatnot else huge consume grinds and gear grind.

    You're point is invalid. I want grinds that I can grind when I want; Not gated artificaly, so Blizzard slows down my progress. I will gladly grind for 10 hours on a Saturday, since by doing that I know I'll make good progress.
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    The alternative is to let other activities that are in fact, repeatable, be a viable means of gaining faction.

    Dailies just happen, by virtue of basically being a continuation of the levelling process, to be something that players don't want to in bulk.

    There are too many hubs, too many dailies and you can bet your boots when players get done with them, they hardcore will do enough for their luck charms at most and others won't do them at all.

    They simply are not very interesting and after you've done a 5 minute task 25 times, you cease to be entertained by it unless you have an unusual capacity to be amused by the ordinary.
    I'm OK with that. I would be totally fine with, for example, dungeons relevant to a given faction awarding rep for that faction, the way it was in TBC. Dungeons providing rep is no problem.

    Again, if you don't find repeatable content rewarding, then perhaps it isn't for you. You aren't forced to do dailies day in and day out to progress, and if you're in a guild that demands that sort of thing, then why not find a guild that better meets your playstyle? WoW offers a very colorful and diverse assortment of guilds.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuuvaak View Post
    This is unfortunately a "WoW was my first MMO" comment. In classic MMOs, the same things rarely happened twice. Even trying to hunt in the same general AREA was different all the time in Ultima Online classic. There were no factions, no storyline in particular even - the players provided all the content. Problem is, people WANT casual content and they want a treadmill. They would rather be fed content constantly than make their own.

    Players tried in WoW. They tried to do something besides level, raid, afk in the city until the next xpac. Remember Exploration and wall-walking? How about deregulated twink PVP? In-game casinos?

    sorry brah that's not leveling and raiding! please return to leveling and raiding.

    Current games are designed around this concept. Developers don't want you using databases and looking up strategies and number crunching anymore, or having to network hard outside the game to get anywhere. They never intended for applying to a guild to be like a job interview where you actually had to have something to offer to be accepted. SO now we've got guild perks to leech off of as soon as we roll a new char and LFR. Without wanting their player base to do all that "work" (which was the FUN part of MMOs compared to other games)... we're stuck with shit like dailies to keep us occupied.

    Honestly, the dailies are easy as hell anyway. I'm done with all of them in an hour. If you've only got two hours of free time a night, why the hell are you playing an MMO?? Improve your real life, play xbox, do something more suitable for a maximum of two hours a night.
    "My first MMO" was an MMO that had no quests, a severe death penalty including XP loss, skill loss, and total item loss (unless you could get back to your corpse before someone else did). The only way you could level up was killing creatures in different areas of the game. Your passing judgement was clearly accurate.

    Hunting grounds in early MMOs were the repeatable content. Honestly, I couldn't make much else out of your post. What is your main point?

  3. #343
    I personally really dislike the current design of dailies in MoP. It's like they went too far in the other direction and spread everything out all over the place and made it difficult to keep track of all of the vendors and items that you might want. It's difficult to gear with valor points as you won't have the rep for most of the stuff for a month.

    justice points are literally useless after a week. I have nothing to spend JP on. I want to feel like I can do my dailies when I have time.... not that I have to make time to do my dailies. Being forced to do dailies in order to raid is not fun for me. I don't know the solution but I hope they lighten up the load on dailies.

    edit: I realize this is a bit of an 'all over the place' post. Essentially I don't like the faction reputation changes or the dungeon/raid token gear changes.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of hate towards dailies, but I am also seeing no suggestions of alternatives. Repeatable content is central to MMORPG gameplay, so if you hate repeatable content, perhaps MMORPGs aren't for you.
    Why does it have to be? Why do we let them get away with that excuse? It's time to stand up and say no, this will not do. You can do better, and we demand better.

  5. #345
    Imagine getting every single jewelcrafting recipe.. hehe.. heh.. hehehehehheh. no.

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  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    The problem with dailies is a perception one really. It feels like a grind because it has to be done every day to be of maximum efficiency. There was a huge difference for example, between awarding random dungeon rewards once a day, and 7 times per week. When you let the user pick their own pace, even if you cap that pace, it feels more optional and less like a chore. Having to find the time every day to go grind through those abysmal golden lotus dailies seems like a chore, but I've spent hours grinding things like timbermaw hold rep that were far more tedious but felt far less like work because I wasn't "falling behind" by taking time off from them.

    Exactly this. The change to a weekly dungeon cap instead of a daily took a huge amount of pressure off and was a major quality of life improvement for players. As Blizzard realized and acknowledged when they made this change.

    The same person who made this realization must still work there and yet they have reverted it 100% and made it worse than a "daily heroic" ever was in LK and early Cataclysm.

    Now for maximum efficiency you have a daily dungeon, a daily challenge mode quest, a daily scenario, and an essentially infinite number of brain-dead mind-numbing daily quests that you either do or feel like you are falling behind.

    Not only that, what is your reward for dutifully doing your Golden Lotus dailies. More dailies.

    The nerf to points awarded is not made up for by replacing 150 point dungeons at any time you want during the week with with 200 dailies that have to be done mostly every day in order to reach 200.

    Even at 4 minutes per daily, which by the time you factor in collects is extremely generous, 13 hrs of dailies per weeks minimum is a bit much.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    Exactly this. The change to a weekly dungeon cap instead of a daily took a huge amount of pressure off and was a major quality of life improvement for players. As Blizzard realized and acknowledged when they made this change.

    The same person who made this realization must still work there and yet they have reverted it 100% and made it worse than a "daily heroic" ever was in LK and early Cataclysm.

    Now for maximum efficiency you have a daily dungeon, a daily challenge mode quest, a daily scenario, and an essentially infinite number of brain-dead mind-numbing daily quests that you either do or feel like you are falling behind.

    Not only that, what is your reward for dutifully doing your Golden Lotus dailies. More dailies.

    The nerf to points awarded is not made up for by replacing 150 point dungeons at any time you want during the week with with 200 dailies that have to be done mostly every day in order to reach 200.

    Even at 4 minutes per daily, which by the time you factor in collects is extremely generous, 13 hrs of dailies per weeks minimum is a bit much.
    I'll agree the weekly limit instead of a daily makes absolutely NO sense, but I think you're sensationlizing the dailies a bit. I did a full round of Tillers in 10 minutes. Every daily for them. Ten minutes. Don't forget LFR, though. There's another 90 valor.

    I think heroic, challenge, and scenarios should all be a weekly cap instead of once a day, though. That seems an unnecessary restriction. There's not 200 dailies available and you don't have to do them most every day. And there's still no need to do every single daily and be revered with every rep if you're running heroics.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  8. #348
    its this black prince rep that gets me pissed even more then the other boring dailies, so its not just the two that you are forced to do, raids have started and im still not high enough with them (don't really enjoy spending hours and hours killing the same mobs to get the rep up,you need a lot more then what you get killing mobs for the other reps)

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by meifumado View Post
    its this black prince rep that gets me pissed even more then the other boring dailies, so its not just the two that you are forced to do, raids have started and im still not high enough with them (don't really enjoy spending hours and hours killing the same mobs to get the rep up,you need a lot more then what you get killing mobs for the other reps)
    I'm halfway to honored myself. The mobs for Klaxxi, Shado Pan, and Golden Lotus all give Black Prince rep. I kinda like it as a throwback to Classic WoW with Brood of Nozdormu (but not as bad). It's the start of a LEGENDARY questline. It's not going to be quick.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  10. #350
    what are these charms u are on bout? and how do they affect raid's =O

    sry, havent really looked into this stuff yet O-o

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  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    what are these charms u are on bout? and how do they affect raid's =O

    sry, havent really looked into this stuff yet O-o
    Either you're not playing WoW or you missed out on about 6 shards of these. http://www.wowhead.com/currency=697

    Basically, whenever you kill a boss in a raid, no matter the difficulty, you get the option to spend one of these coins. When you spend the coin you have a small chance to receieve an item appropriate for your class/spec that would drop from that specific boss' loot table, if you get this item it's completely off the table, does not affect anyone else in the raid and no one else gets to roll on it. You win it, you get it.

    But it's a lot more likely that you "win" flasks and gold.

    You can only turn in lesser charms once per week, which gives 3 elder coins, and all you need to do to get this is about 6 dailies a day, which people think is so horrible that the sky is falling.

  12. #352
    The problem with dailies is a perception one really. It feels like a grind because it has to be done every day to be of maximum efficiency. There was a huge difference for example, between awarding random dungeon rewards once a day, and 7 times per week. When you let the user pick their own pace, even if you cap that pace, it feels more optional and less like a chore. Having to find the time every day to go grind through those abysmal golden lotus dailies seems like a chore, but I've spent hours grinding things like timbermaw hold rep that were far more tedious but felt far less like work because I wasn't "falling behind" by taking time off from them.
    I think this is really accurate and applies to me, too. I have no issue at all grinding hours at an end the most tedious of reputations, and the change from daily dungeons to weekly cap was.. fantastic, even if I'm one of those addicts who log in every day. It takes a lot of pressure away.

    I don't really see an alternative system, however, in which dailies can be turned in.. well, non dailies. I guess making them a LOT less mandatory would alleviate the problem somewhat: vanity rewards, much like cloud serpents and anglers, as opposed to actual vendors with gear and recipe which is mandatory for every self-respecting player (or raider anyway).

    That surely will invite a lot of "lol y u no work for ur stuff", but when I spend 25 hours a week raiding the last thing I need is dailies every day so I can raid to begin with, especially when stuff like cooking has such incredible requirements to max/craft, dungeons are inevitable and, by the looks of it, so will LFR.

  13. #353
    I'm just happy that once i'm revered with all of these reps i won't have to do their dailies anymore. For me there is absolutely no reason to get exalted with golden lotus or klaxxi. I finished getting revered with klaxxi on friday and i'm so happy i never have to do any of their boring dailies ever again. Golden lotus ill be revered in 2 days then I never have to do those again either. Hopefully Shadopan and August Celestials goes fast too. Having dailies = content is still kinda meh to me. If they are just going to release garbage like a molten front daily hub and expect people to not get bored of it blizz has another thing coming lol.
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  14. #354
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    It's a problem when you're trying to design a game that has to have an extended life cycle before the next cycle of content is available, but you're expected to make everything accessible and easily obtainable with minimal effort and maximum efficiency.


    BUT, did Blizzard demand you do that?
    Was the content POSSIBLE without it? Yes, it was. The raid group determines its requirements and that's where the expectation came from.

    Your raid might expect you to have tokens of good fortune and be expecting you to use them every chance you can. My raid group won't be faced with any such requirement.
    Before Mists of Pandaria wraps up, I have full confidence we'll have completed all the raids and we'll have a comfortable amount of time on farm or to do old raids for the hell of it, etc.

    Outside of server firsts, I think everyone would benefit from slowing down a little and relaxing on the push to tackle everything quickly.

    But I am still being drawn on board with some of the rep alternative suggestions.


    Justice points also didn't get you anything worth having by the time dailies were introduced. There was no such thing as "run heroics for Tier gear" then and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single justice badge epic that could match something past Karazhan either.

    And maybe that would be best. Valor/Justice point gear at revered (rep gained through dailies or heroics with weekly limit) only for gear to get into the intro raids. After that, raid or LFR are the sources of gear with exception of any new heroics introduced in patches.
    Really? Don't you guys get it by now? Blizzard never forces you to do anything they just make certain choices better by design and guide the community to those paths. Blizzard never forced me to bring destruction pots but the alternative was my asshole GM would kick me or I wouldn't be able to raid or whatever. The alternative would be my dps was lower and we wouldn't kill the boss. It's never about only having one choice, it's always about one choice being vastly superior and the rest sucking balls. Currently running dungeons sucks balls , regardless of what Blizzard says and the rewards need to be looked at. I mean from Blizzards stand point running dungeons probably does seem very rewarding but it isn't. By comparative measure, by the measure of people leaving groups left right and center and by the measure of people giving up on running dungeons. Christ that's what tabards were created for. Encourage more dungeon play. Don't tell me I"m not forced to do dailies when the alternatives are so poor and still tied to dailies anyway.

    I don't see why anyone has a problem with me getting gear through valor or justice. It was never heroic raid level gear and even if they removed the rep restriction it's not exactly like I would have it this week. Maybe at the end of the month I'll have one piece. Blizzard fostered a style of gameplay that allowed me through various methods to build up and create really strong characters. Not as strong as the people who raid regularly or raid heroics but still strong enough that I could feel like my guy was progressing. Now that system was maybe to good and maybe made it happen to fast, you can argue around the margins for that but currently as it stands that's just not gonna happen in any reasonable time frame. In fact I'll be lucky to gear out one toon decently buy the time the next major patch drops. Not this 5.1 bs but whenever they get the new raid out. I mean it's roughly 12-13 weeks to get every valor piece, that's assuming I cap out every week which is a total pain in the asshole. But assuming that then yea 12 weeks. On one toon. That's also assuming I have the faction rep to buy the pieces so I'm not sitting on valor at the cap. I mean if the rep takes longer than the max cap they should probably increase the max cap. That still with alot of gear missing pieces and if LFR is actually as hard as people say (another bone headed fucking move) then I'm kinda fucked this expansion.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 05:42 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #355
    I'm more annoyed that I have to do Golden Lotus rep before I can work toward Shado-Pan & Celestials.
    I thought we were going to be able to chooooooooose who we wanted to get rep with damnit. Oh well.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post

    Not only that, what is your reward for dutifully doing your Golden Lotus dailies. More dailies.

    The nerf to points awarded is not made up for by replacing 150 point dungeons at any time you want during the week with with 200 dailies that have to be done mostly every day in order to reach 200.

    Even at 4 minutes per daily, which by the time you factor in collects is extremely generous, 13 hrs of dailies per weeks minimum is a bit much.
    I'm a good boy I swear. I 've done my dailies everyday for the past couple of days. Anybody who thinks their not forced this is ignorant. At 4 am server on us-arthas the pile of horde players massing in the pagoda says otherwise. They've moved away from this design for a reason over the years and only reverted to it now for god knows what reason. It's a sham. It's all a fucking duplicitous trick on their part. I can't believe people let em get away with it to.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuse View Post
    I'm more annoyed that I have to do Golden Lotus rep before I can work toward Shado-Pan & Celestials.
    I thought we were going to be able to chooooooooose who we wanted to get rep with damnit. Oh well.
    I mean even you finally commit yourself to doing it you have to wait. OKAY Blizzard I accept dailies. I'll fucking do them. Wait what your telling me I can't?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #357
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    Allright... You can easily get the full 90 tokens needed in a single day- there is that many dailies out there. Slowly, as you rep up, youll start dropping these dailies. Eventually, youll be doing a select set of these dailies every day in order to get enough for your weekly elder charm cap.

    I have no problem with the system- can only play 2 hours every 2 days? get dailies done in those 2 hours, youll be capped.
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  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    I'll agree the weekly limit instead of a daily makes absolutely NO sense, but I think you're sensationlizing the dailies a bit. I did a full round of Tillers in 10 minutes. Every daily for them. Ten minutes. Don't forget LFR, though. There's another 90 valor.

    I think heroic, challenge, and scenarios should all be a weekly cap instead of once a day, though. That seems an unnecessary restriction. There's not 200 dailies available and you don't have to do them most every day. And there's still no need to do every single daily and be revered with every rep if you're running heroics.

    See you guys can't have it both way. If your did your tillers in 10 minutes then daily quests are really not all that good at getting people in the world after the initial burst of activity. They seriously fail so fucking hard in every way.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    I have no problem with the system- can only play 2 hours every 2 days? get dailies done in those 2 hours, youll be capped.
    And then not be able to do anything else from the rest of the day or go back to afking in org. The system is balls not only because it dictates your play time but also because when your done it doesn't keep you out in the world.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #359
    dailies have nothing to do with raiding, I don't see why the biggest reward from them is something that can grant you 3 extra pieces of loot, or a chance of, every week. It's stupid. It's the same with valor items, why does the grind have to be dailies, why can't it be dungeons? scenarios? raids? PvE? Hell, I'd rather PvP to get the rep with a tabard on. why do I feel like I already don't care and have stopped doing dailies, even the ones I need? Dailies are awesome, for gold, another way to get valor, but they're not my thing and argue you're not "forced" to all you want, they're boring, repetitive and totally unfun, especially with dozens of people doing them.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It's a terrible design and I'm not sure why Blizzard thinks dailies are awesome or something. The rep grind in cataclysm was so pain free because it just synergized with dungeon gearing and you barely noticed you were even doing it. This rep grind is basically fire lands but on crack.
    That's because reputations were made pointless in Cata. They really didn't offer anything good except for *maybe* a good blue item for your spec, and that quickly became outdated. You didn't even need to do dailies for them and for the most part they had little lore or impact on the game.

    Also always thought "Therazane" herself being a faction was odd, instead of something referencing the other elementals that affect the rep. The ramkahen only had two or so dailies, and honestly didn't feel important enough to be a rep faction, except they needed one for uldum (that zone was a letdown, but I digress). Dragonmaw were actually kinda cool, but again they didn't offer much, not even any vanity items. Earthen ring coulda been done better, also the rep vendor was in an obscure location. While it would have been nice to have some reason to go back to vashjir, it doesn't make sense that their only rep vendor would be under the ocean.

    edit: said all that just to say MoP are much better in comparison
    Last edited by Felshen; 2012-10-10 at 05:59 AM.

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