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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    And that takes you a week of dailies. I can get valor capped in an afternoon of dungeoning.
    Yes, but I was going to do the dailies anyway to get those reputations. The reputation is the most important currency, I was valor capped long before the end of last week but I still ran the dailies to get the reputations capped and all of that nonsense out of the way.

  2. #382
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuminousAether View Post
    Don't see that happening. Given the changes we have already seen, I imagine that valor rewards will cease to be tied to reputations in a month or two. I believe these reputations are an experiment to see if players will tolerate a slower gear progression. Considering how easy it is to find dungeon groups now, how rapidly that whole process works, any other gear progression would progress at a typical pace and the content would be consumed at a rapid pace. There's a pretty consistent outcry against this method, however, and I'm fairly confident that Blizzard will acquiesce to the demands of their players. They usually do.
    One could only hope. I mean if that's the case should I just unsub for a month or two? If they do that then every "hard work" guy will whine and bitch about it. It's such a bad situation. LIVE releases aren't the place to experiment like this.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by LuminousAether View Post
    Not true. Klaxxi + Golden Lotus + Tillers dailies 7 days a week for me gets me valor capped without running a single dungeon.
    Actually I find daily quests to be the most efficient way to get your valor. Which is the problem. Dungeons need to be more efficient so that they are an actually viable means to cap valor for people who don't like doing ridiculous amounts of dailies. There is nothing wrong with people being able to get valor for solo play an MMORPG, but it seems kind of wrong that it is the optimal way.(you would think actual group play would be optimal)

    But I guess it is good they nerfed the PvP gear, because before that PvP was the easiest way to get your PvE gear.

  4. #384
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Actually through ever method you gain dailies at a snails pace. Dungeons or dailies it doesn't matter. Dailies are probably the most efficient way but that just more reason people feel forced to do dailies. The VP gain from dunfgeons needs a buff so does the JP gain really.
    People feel forced to do dailies because the vp items still have rep requirements, which is stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by flick86 View Post
    It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.
    #Blizzardplsdontdodis

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post

    But I guess it is good they nerfed the PvP gear, because before that PvP was the easiest way to get your PvE gear.
    That was a horrid knee jerk reactionary change on their part. Not only did it not fix the problem that JP gear sucks (which it still does by comparison to what you get in the dungeon) honor gear is still better. It has a gem slot ffs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    People feel forced to do dailies because the vp items still have rep requirements, which is stupid.
    Well that to. didn't say their couldn't be multiple rewards. They had to make dailies as rewarding as possible. They know people wouldn't do them otherwise.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    That was a horrid knee jerk reactionary change on their part. Not only did it not fix the problem that JP gear sucks (which it still does by comparison to what you get in the dungeon) honor gear is still better. It has a gem slot ffs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:53 AM ----------



    Well that to. didn't say their couldn't be multiple rewards. They had to make dailies as rewarding as possible. They know people wouldn't do them otherwise.
    Agreed right now the optimal way to gear up is
    1) Run heroics until you need gear from less than half of the dungeons
    2) Run specific heroics
    3) When you have done all your specifics that day, run randoms and drop if you get a dungeon you don't need
    4) Do PvP until the debuff wears off

    Because JP is so frackin useless, there is no reason to do a dungeon you need or not to bail after the boss you need from goes down.

  7. #387
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    By having valor items be rep-gated, Blizz is forcing people to either do dungeons and dailies, or just dailies. But because the valor cap is so low and item costs are high, to gear solely off dailies would take forever.

    My point is that to get gear when it has any relevancy whatsoever to the content, you have to do both. A having to do something != options.

    Also, what jbombard just said. Blizz has created a system that rewards people for bailing on dungeons rather than finishing them,
    Quote Originally Posted by flick86 View Post
    It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.
    #Blizzardplsdontdodis

  8. #388
    Well in terms of Charms, after getting my 3 for the week, I've still got another 2 weeks worth of lesser ones to hand in, and I'm only honored with Golden Lotus. I think we'll be able to get so far ahead of the curve that in the long run we wont be 'forced' to keep grinding them out. Especially since you can only hold a maximum of 10 charms and I don't see (myself) using them every week, only during the inital gearing stages and on "must have" drops.

    I also expect the "Firelands 2.0" dailies to reward charms.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    How obscenely repetitive and dull the majority of the quests are? I thought the Golden Lotus quests were bad, now I am doing Shado-pan and August Celestials and they are just awful, boring, obnoxious,

    You know what would be nice? Half the HP of the quest mobs. Every fight drags on if my CDs aren't up. If they're worried about gear making them irrelevant, what's the point of trying to balance against future gear? By the time we get that geared we'll be exalted and skipping the dailies anyway. Dumb. I don't like every quest to feel like a soloed scenario.
    I agree with this wholeheartedly, it is the only thing that really bothers me a lot, i have no problem killing multiple mobs at a time (since im a warlock hehe) but the tedious part is the high HP on all the daily quest mobs, what gives? im not gona do dailies after i hit exalted, and i ceratinly wont do them just because i want to compare less gear<better gear.

    I also find it to be really stupid.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisxor View Post
    I'm just happy that once i'm revered with all of these reps i won't have to do their dailies anymore. For me there is absolutely no reason to get exalted with golden lotus or klaxxi. I finished getting revered with klaxxi on friday and i'm so happy i never have to do any of their boring dailies ever again. Golden lotus ill be revered in 2 days then I never have to do those again either. Hopefully Shadopan and August Celestials goes fast too. Having dailies = content is still kinda meh to me. If they are just going to release garbage like a molten front daily hub and expect people to not get bored of it blizz has another thing coming lol.
    That's exactly what 5.1 consists of though, daily quests, some new rep faction, a couple of new regular quests to progress story, and maybe a scenario, dungeon or battleground or two.


    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I'm a good boy I swear. I 've done my dailies everyday for the past couple of days. Anybody who thinks their not forced this is ignorant. At 4 am server on us-arthas the pile of horde players massing in the pagoda says otherwise. They've moved away from this design for a reason over the years and only reverted to it now for god knows what reason. It's a sham. It's all a fucking duplicitous trick on their part. I can't believe people let em get away with it to.
    I'm "letting them get away with it" because I think it's really good design, unlike that trashy tabard system. You say that you feel required to do them for the rep, yet the system you want wouldn't give any more choice at all. If there was no rep cap, and tabards everywhere, people would be "forced" to play non-stop farming dungeons until they were exalted with each and every one of them to be as prepared as possible for raiding. That, is not, a good, system.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    That was a horrid knee jerk reactionary change on their part. Not only did it not fix the problem that JP gear sucks (which it still does by comparison to what you get in the dungeon) honor gear is still better. It has a gem slot ffs.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:53 AM ----------



    Well that to. didn't say their couldn't be multiple rewards. They had to make dailies as rewarding as possible. They know people wouldn't do them otherwise.
    The PvP gear is not better for PvE as it is right now... Yeah sure it has a socket slot, but also two stats that doesn't help you in any way, shape or form. The JP gear isn't useleess, it's a help for those who still hasn't gotten into HC's yet, if you have then good for you, so have I, two weeks ago.

    They have to make things seem rewarding, or otherwise people wouldn't do lots of things! Would you raid with no loot rewards? Would you PvP with no honor gained? Would you farm HC's with NEITHER rep NOR gear rewards offered? The previous dailies didn't reward anything. You say gold? You got like 300 gold for doing the daily cap of 25, you got a lot more than that if you knew your way around the AH by just buying and selling some underpriced stuff...

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It's a terrible design and I'm not sure why Blizzard thinks dailies are awesome or something. The rep grind in cataclysm was so pain free because it just synergized with dungeon gearing and you barely noticed you were even doing it. This rep grind is basically fire lands but on crack.
    What part of "optional" do you not understand? You don't have to do them if you're so violently opposed to their existence. And if your intensely hardcore guild of grandmaster WoW players refuses to allow you to raid without a few bags full of charms, then perhaps you need to look elsewhere for a guild containing regular human beings.

    As others have said, they're trying to get people back into the world. What do you lot expect Blizzard to do? Create a brand-new set of quests every day instead of dailies? Encourage basically only dungeons/raids/pvp as in Cata? That was so fun, right!

    Reps may as well not have existed in Cata. You weren't doing anything for the factions in the slightest. You just magically hit exalted after a few dungeons.

  12. #392
    I'd say they went this way to compete with GW2's dynamic events, which are somewhat actually fun, sadly dallies are used with a terrible quest design and now the over tuned HP of mop mobs to make it even more tedious they connected dallies to dungeons even more

  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    That's exactly what 5.1 consists of though, daily quests, some new rep faction, a couple of new regular quests to progress story, and maybe a scenario, dungeon or battleground or two.



    I'm "letting them get away with it" because I think it's really good design, unlike that trashy tabard system. You say that you feel required to do them for the rep, yet the system you want wouldn't give any more choice at all. If there was no rep cap, and tabards everywhere, people would be "forced" to play non-stop farming dungeons until they were exalted with each and every one of them to be as prepared as possible for raiding. That, is not, a good, system.
    Look it doesn't do what they want it to. It only gets people out for brief spurts of activity and even then people aren't stopping to notice the world. They go do theirs quests and that's it. They may as well be instanced. Their not painting pictures or having drum circles or any bullshit. They go do their quests and then go back to org. Their goal can't have simply been to prod you off the org couch for 30 minutes at a time. No their goal was to get people out into the world for prolong periods and to enjoy and take it all in. Well dailies don't do that. They effectively become just like instances where you go finish your goal and move on.
    Look you can do dailies do your hearts content. Giving me a tabard capped or not doesn't stop that. Giving me a tabard makes getting rep as painless as possible because it just happens naturally with every activity I do. It isn't going out of my way to do it. You don't feel forced because it's just something you throw on and it works. It makes rep work with everything and doesn't give one particular method of doing something one more advantage over the other. That's why it worked in cataclysm.

    Let's do a hypothetical here. Remove the rep from daily quests. Give out tabards. Make it so the tabards give rep WITH ANY ACTIVITY. including doing daily quests. including dungeons. including pvp. So any conceivable activity in the world would that satisfy you? hell even battles. Scaled of course to an appropriate amount of rep per time invested.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 07:10 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    What part of "optional" do you not understand? You don't have to do them if you're so violently opposed to their existence. And if your intensely hardcore guild of grandmaster WoW players refuses to allow you to raid without a few bags full of charms, then perhaps you need to look elsewhere for a guild containing regular human beings.

    As others have said, they're trying to get people back into the world. What do you lot expect Blizzard to do? Create a brand-new set of quests every day instead of dailies? Encourage basically only dungeons/raids/pvp as in Cata? That was so fun, right!

    Reps may as well not have existed in Cata. You weren't doing anything for the factions in the slightest. You just magically hit exalted after a few dungeons.
    *sigh* when the other option is so shitty by comparison it's not very optional. You end up being forced down one path. I can tell the guy with the gun to my head to stick it, I have that option but that's a bad decision clearly. I mean I don't have to log onto the game either, that's an option. It's a shittier one that playing the game though so of course I log into the game. It's optional in the sense that I don't have to play the game. Maybe they should tell their customers that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 07:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Agreed right now the optimal way to gear up is
    1) Run heroics until you need gear from less than half of the dungeons
    2) Run specific heroics
    3) When you have done all your specifics that day, run randoms and drop if you get a dungeon you don't need
    4) Do PvP until the debuff wears off

    Because JP is so frackin useless, there is no reason to do a dungeon you need or not to bail after the boss you need from goes down.
    And it's gonna get harder and harder to do option one and two as people stop queing for shit since they don't need it anymore. Having JP and VP being so good in these dungeons basically meant people were always running them. Not to mention how shitty the fucking loot tables are. I don't see how they can say dungeons are rewarding... not by any measure as far as I can tell. Why even bother putting dungeons in at that point? Why not just save the time and money and invest it into making better daily quests.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 07:15 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Look it doesn't do what they want it to. It only gets people out for brief spurts of activity and even then people aren't stopping to notice the world. They go do theirs quests and that's it. They may as well be instanced. Their not painting pictures or having drum circles or any bullshit. They go do their quests and then go back to org. Their goal can't have simply been to prod you off the org couch for 30 minutes at a time. No their goal was to get people out into the world for prolong periods and to enjoy and take it all in. Well dailies don't do that. They effectively become just like instances where you go finish your goal and move on.
    Look you can do dailies do your hearts content. Giving me a tabard capped or not doesn't stop that. Giving me a tabard makes getting rep as painless as possible because it just happens naturally with every activity I do. It isn't going out of my way to do it. You don't feel forced because it's just something you throw on and it works. It makes rep work with everything and doesn't give one particular method of doing something one more advantage over the other. That's why it worked in cataclysm.

    Let's do a hypothetical here. Remove the rep from daily quests. Give out tabards. Make it so the tabards give rep WITH ANY ACTIVITY. including doing daily quests. including dungeons. including pvp. So any conceivable activity in the world would that satisfy you? hell even battles. Scaled of course to an appropriate amount of rep per time invested.
    You know, just because all you do is 10 min of dailies then hearth back to Org, that doesn't mean that's what everyone does. I see a hell of a lot more people out in the world, then I ever have before, and it's not just because it's a new fresh expansion. I see more people out in the world, all day around, not only doing dailies but also killing rare mobs, exploring, just being out in the world, because there is finally a reason for it. Just because you charge through the environment without smelling the roses that doesn't mean nobody else does.

    And no, I wouldn't have any reason to do the dailies if they moved the charms and rep away from them, it would be just as in Cataclysm. Daily quests are no fun without rewards for your efforts, just as raiding wouldn't be fun with no rewards. I even mostly raid for the social experience with the guild I'm in that I like quite a lot, but even though most of us raid because it's fun, we still need a carrot to feel extra motivated to do it or else we might as well go back and do Ulduar or something.

    "You don't feel forced because it's something you throw on and it works."? Really? That's your argument? Well ok, then you don't feel forced to do dailies because there is nothing you really need from there, whatever reward you are after, you can find better in LFR, which I can assure you, 463 gear from heroics, is good enough for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post


    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 07:10 AM ----------



    *sigh* when the other option is so shitty by comparison it's not very optional. You end up being forced down one path. I can tell the guy with the gun to my head to stick it, I have that option but that's a bad decision clearly. I mean I don't have to log onto the game either, that's an option. It's a shittier one that playing the game though so of course I log into the game. It's optional in the sense that I don't have to play the game. Maybe they should tell their customers that.
    Which is exactly why the tabard system sucks so much, does not offer any more choice at all no matter what you believe.
    Last edited by Lora Twinblade; 2012-10-10 at 07:23 AM.

  15. #395
    Who here remembers the calls for rep grinds? "I remember BC, doing the rep grind for the factions really was good work!" or words to that effect and cries of support for it.

    Then suddenly *blizzard gives dalies*

    AMGFGFJHAHFAF WTHF GRINDING!!?!?!KODKQAOF!!!!


    And don't say thats not what happened. It did.

  16. #396
    Save your live today!
    1. Forget dailys
    2. buy gear in ah
    3. do heroics
    4. collect free gear in lfr
    5. enjoy raid / challenge mode

    Forget political correctness, if you do dailys every day you're insane. You're doing an assembly line job in your spare time without real compensation.

  17. #397
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    You know, just because all you do is 10 min of dailies then hearth back to Org, that doesn't mean that's what everyone does. I see a hell of a lot more people out in the world, then I ever have before, and it's not just because it's a new fresh expansion. I see more people out in the world, all day around, not only doing dailies but also killing rare mobs, exploring, just being out in the world, because there is finally a reason for it. Just because you charge through the environment without smelling the roses that doesn't mean nobody else does.

    And no, I wouldn't have any reason to do the dailies if they moved the charms and rep away from them, it would just as in Cataclysm. Daily quests are no fun without rewards for your efforts, just as raiding wouldn't be fun with no rewards. I even mostly raid to the social experience with the guild I'm in that I like quite a lot, but even though most of us raid because it's fun, we still need a carrot to feel extra motivated to do it or else we might as well go back and do Ulduar or something.

    "You don't feel forced because it's something you throw on and it works."? Really? That's your argument? Well ok, then you don't feel forced to do dailies because there is nothing you really need from there, whatever reward you are after, you can find better in LFR, which I can assure you, 463 gear from heroics, is good enough for.
    *sigh* Theirs lots I need from the dailies for. That isn't the point however. Granting tabards that grants EQUAL REP GAIN TO ALL ACTIVITIES doesn't make one option better and hence FORCED than the other. I mean you basically admitted. YOu said of course I wouldn't do dailies if the reward wasn't good, so that just means it's forced. It's not because the content is enjoyable and you like doing them but because THEIRS SUCH A HUGE CARROT. Well ive got news for you dungeons are no fun without rewards for your efforts. Yea yea yea tell me how they're still rewarding because they aren't. It's a big rng crap fest. At least with the fucking daily quest it isn't a huge rng crap fest.

    Look I thought my suggestion was reasonable. It doesn't make one playstyle better than the other. The tbarads wil grant you rep wether you do dailies or do dungeons I don't care. I'd love to find reward in LFR but I probably never will. It's apparently to hard now (yet another barrier to access) and is also totally RNG driven. The only way to safely and assure that at some point I will get to upgrade my guy and make him stronger and powerful is through valor gear which means that since dailies are the only path to get that they are to good and hence not optional in the slightest. When the other choice is far worse then the first one ceases to become optional.


    I see alot of people in the world to. none of them are stopping to smell the roses. They're on their way to do dailies and then back to org or two moons or whatever. In either case nobody is soaking in the world they are more or less just completing whatever task is REQUIRED of them.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 07:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lakara648 View Post
    Who here remembers the calls for rep grinds? "I remember BC, doing the rep grind for the factions really was good work!" or words to that effect and cries of support for it.

    Then suddenly *blizzard gives dalies*

    AMGFGFJHAHFAF WTHF GRINDING!!?!?!KODKQAOF!!!!


    And don't say thats not what happened. It did.
    I'm sure a vocal minority of you people did on forums. Just like the same people who were calling out for harder dungeons in cataclysm. You recall how that worked out don't you?
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 07:25 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #398
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    People may be out in the world, but where LFD clearly wins out is that it forces people to work together. For dailies, I always ask if people Want to group up to make them go faster, and thus far one person has taken me up on it. Otherwise I run with guild members if possible. My experience with dailies has been people ninjaing, tagging, etc mobs, and in general being pricks about things.

    Your argument, Chaozu, keeps returning to "well, I like dailies, and some other people do too, so you shouldn't complain." That's fine, but truly give players the options. You should be able to gain rep without dailies, and gain vp without dungeons. Right now players are being strongly encouraged to do dailies, to the point of dungeons being under-utilized, which as many in the thread have noted is encouraging bad behavior from LFD dungeon folks.

    I like dailies that involve doing things I wouldn't be doing in dungeons, bombing runs. Punting chickens, fist fighting sharks, that stuff is fun. I like dailies where mobs aren't packed in so tight that they're practically humping each other and oh ps they all have big hp pools so, while not dangerous, fights go on forever.
    Last edited by Shambulanced; 2012-10-10 at 07:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by flick86 View Post
    It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.
    #Blizzardplsdontdodis

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by vac View Post
    Save your live today!
    1. Forget dailys
    2. buy gear in ah
    3. do heroics
    4. collect free gear in lfr
    5. enjoy raid / challenge mode

    Forget political correctness, if you do dailys every day you're insane. You're doing an assembly line job in your spare time without real compensation.
    I believe that compensation comes in the form of gold, valor, rep, increased chance at raid loot, and whatever sense of accomplishment and enjoyment a person gets out of it. I mean, if we're being honest, nothing in this game gives "real" compensation, other than the thrill of pvp, the elation at downing difficult bosses, a social network, enjoyment of a video game, laughter at trolls, and a sense of accomplishment when I get a new achievement or gain another level of reputation. Also, whatever sexual pleasure people get out of Moonguard. :P
    Once you go troll, you never reroll. -heard on cynicalbrit.com. Epic.

  20. #400
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    It' simple. Tie rep to tabards EXCLUSIVELY. And make it so that you get rep from almost every activity. Dailies. Dungeons. Pvp. Pet battles. Scenarios. regular quests. Adjusted and alloted for time invested. That makes it even as hell. If you like dailies go ahead and do them you still get rep and gold. If you like dungeons go ahead and do them gear and rep. Pvp. Pet battles. Whatever. That makes rep as painless as possible and makes every activity double rewarding.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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