Page 24 of 29 FirstFirst ...
14
22
23
24
25
26
... LastLast
  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It's really that lucky. that's why it's called RNG. It's totally fucking random and you get it by luck. Especially with their shitty fucking loot tables. I'm running em alright. And being a good little boy and doing my dailies. All because a handful of people couldn't swallow the fucking fact that people who didn't raid somehow still had gear. ABSURD... HOW DARE THEY HAVE GEAR?
    Yeah it's RNG just as it should be, but the drop chance on all items except epic items is fairly high, usually above 20 %, which theoretically would require you to run it 5 times, which really isn't that much.

    I wonder what you would do within the game if it wasn't RNG, and you could get all the gear you wanted within the first week? What would be left? If LFR was so easy that even randoms got it on the first try, and you had full LFR gear within two weeks? What exactly would you do, while waiting these months, for the next couple of dungeons and gear?
    Last edited by Chaozu; 2012-10-10 at 08:26 AM. Reason: typo

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWerebison View Post
    Well yeah, HoF and Terrace have higher ilvl requirements than MV. You're meant to go into MV before you go into the other two. And if I remember, due to questing purposes, one of those HAS to come before the other. It's about progression. Heroics > LFR or raiding > harder raids.
    There is nothing wrong with requiring that you go into one before the other. The problem is that you are required to get every single drop from Mogushan vaults and the rest heroic dungeon drops if you want to get in.(unless of course you are doing other raiding besides LFR which is kind of a silly requirement to get into LFR)

  3. #463
    HURRAY! This is another problem with a user-generated possible solution!

    Before this week I had gotten 5 elder charms' worth of lesser harm in a week and a half. I could do only 30% of my dailies and be roughly in line to get one per week.

    PvE "required" reputation:

    Golden Lotus to Revered (to unlock Shado-Pan and August Celestial)

    KLaxxi to Honored

    SHado-Pan to Honored

    August Celestials to Honored


    The hardcore raider need only do two factinos of dailies per day: Klaxxi and GOlden LOtus til honred with Klaxxi, then just Golden Lotus, then just Shado-Pan and Celestials til honored with them. As for your elder charms, you're looking at about 10 dailies per day tops to get enough in a week.

    Have fun!

  4. #464
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Yeah it's RNG just as it should be, but the drop chance on all items except epic items is fairly high, usually above 20 %, which theoretically would require you to run it 5 times, which really isn't that much.

    I wonder what you would do within the game if it wasn't RNG, and you could get all the gear you wanted within the first week? What would be left? If LFR was so easy that even randoms go it on the first try, and you had full LFR gear within two weeks? What exactly would you do, while waiting these months, for the next couple of dungeons and gear?
    All things in balance. The RNG was meant to be alleviated by the jp gear and thats exactly what happened for wrath and cata. Now it doesn't do that. in the sense that I wouldn't still need to farm the piece. Now I still need to farm the piece. Some RNG is fine but WoW moved away from having to much and more and more into something that got away from that. I think we agree that RNG is necessary to a degree but were just arguing around the margins. I think the the current system doesn't do enough to alleviate it.

    I'd be lvling alts which I probably won't be doing this expansion. LFR was exactly that easy in DS and groups still died. Now imagine what will happen in Mists lfr. Lfr is meant to be easy. Content for everyone at all levels of play. You have normals and heroic raids. I had jp/vp gear and lfr. HAD. Those aren't kinda pathetic now.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    HURRAY! This is another problem with a user-generated possible solution!

    Before this week I had gotten 5 elder charms' worth of lesser harm in a week and a half. I could do only 30% of my dailies and be roughly in line to get one per week.

    PvE "required" reputation:

    Golden Lotus to Revered (to unlock Shado-Pan and August Celestial)

    KLaxxi to Honored

    SHado-Pan to Honored

    August Celestials to Honored


    The hardcore raider need only do two factinos of dailies per day: Klaxxi and GOlden LOtus til honred with Klaxxi, then just Golden Lotus, then just Shado-Pan and Celestials til honored with them. As for your elder charms, you're looking at about 10 dailies per day tops to get enough in a week.

    Have fun!
    It's actually less than that, you only need to do 6.4 dailies per day to get enough for the elder coins.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    HURRAY! This is another problem with a user-generated possible solution!

    Before this week I had gotten 5 elder charms' worth of lesser harm in a week and a half. I could do only 30% of my dailies and be roughly in line to get one per week.

    PvE "required" reputation:

    Golden Lotus to Revered (to unlock Shado-Pan and August Celestial)

    KLaxxi to Honored

    SHado-Pan to Honored

    August Celestials to Honored


    The hardcore raider need only do two factinos of dailies per day: Klaxxi and GOlden LOtus til honred with Klaxxi, then just Golden Lotus, then just Shado-Pan and Celestials til honored with them. As for your elder charms, you're looking at about 10 dailies per day tops to get enough in a week.

    Have fun!
    Unless of course you don't like repetitive daily cases, in which case it isn't "Have fun!" that Blizzard is saying, they are saying "suck it bitches, you are going to do what we tell you to and like it". Goodbye are the days where you did group content to progress in group content, now you will do your daily quests and like it!

  7. #467
    I think the problem does not really lie with the system, but in the kind of players WoW has created throughout the years: gear power-hungry people
    Where the designer see various options and different way to get gear or increase your powers (dungeons OR daily OR raid or a various mix of those), players only see "I have to" do dungeon AND do dailies AND do raid AND etc.

    It is not "oh look I can get charms of good fortune for some of these tokens every week as an ADDED reward for doing dailies (that I like doing)"
    It is "oh shit look there are charms of good fortune now I have to do dailies every week (that I hate doing)"

    To be honest everything is optional no one is ever forced to do it, is that most people are so OMFGNEEDMOARLOOTGRAGAGRAAAARLRLALRLRLRL that feel they "have to" do so. It is always "I have to have more gear" it is never "I have to have fun"

    Blizzard fault I guess to make the game so gear driven I suppose, but the mistake does not certainly lies with the design structure of Pandaria.

    It's the same for reputation "omfg PURPLEZ": required. No not really, the starting raids are probably meant to be done in heroic blues and there will be LFR soon anyway. The only complain I can accept is crafting recipes hidden behind those reputation.

    My 2 cents on the matter
    Last edited by Brazorf; 2012-10-10 at 08:32 AM.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    All things in balance. The RNG was meant to be alleviated by the jp gear and thats exactly what happened for wrath and cata. Now it doesn't do that. in the sense that I wouldn't still need to farm the piece. Now I still need to farm the piece. Some RNG is fine but WoW moved away from having to much and more and more into something that got away from that. I think we agree that RNG is necessary to a degree but were just arguing around the margins. I think the the current system doesn't do enough to alleviate it.

    I'd be lvling alts which I probably won't be doing this expansion. LFR was exactly that easy in DS and groups still died. Now imagine what will happen in Mists lfr. Lfr is meant to be easy. Content for everyone at all levels of play. You have normals and heroic raids. I had jp/vp gear and lfr. HAD. Those aren't kinda pathetic now.
    If LFR is too hard then of course they will nerf it further, I haven't looked at it yet but I'm sure it's another case of people having to run it a couple of times to grasp the concept of the tactics. If they changed the JP gear item lvl to 463 I really couldn't care less, it doesn't affect me and I feel that 458 is basically the same thing, so if that would help you, fine. But it really isn't necessary, it fills it's purpose of gearing up for raids, which is what it's for.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    I think the problem does not really lie with the system, but in the kind of players WoW has created through the years: gear power-hungry people
    Where the designer see various options and different way to get gear or increase your player powers (dungeons OR daily OR raid or a various mix of those), players only see "I have to" do dungeon AND do dailies AND do raid AND etc.

    It is not "oh look I can get charms of good fortune for some of these tokens every week as an ADDED reward for doing dailies (that I like doing)"
    It is "oh shit look there are charms of good fortune now I have to do dailies every week"

    To be honest everything is optional no one is ever forced to do it, is that most people are so OMFGNEEDMOARLOOTGRAGAGRAAAARLRLALRLRLRL that feel they "have to" do so. It is always "I have to do more" it is never "I have to have fun"

    My 2 cents on the matter
    Blizzard fault I guess to make the game so gear driven I suppose, but the mistake does not certainly lies with the design structure of Pandaria.
    Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    If LFR is too hard then of course they will nerf it further, I haven't looked at it yet but I'm sure it's another case of people having to run it a couple of times to grasp the concept of the tactics. If they changed the JP gear item lvl to 463 I really couldn't care less, it doesn't affect me and I feel that 458 is basically the same thing, so if that would help you, fine. But it really isn't necessary, it fills it's purpose of gearing up for raids, which is what it's for.
    You realize that honor gear is also 458 and has free stats? You realize that they said justice gear was going to be better for PvE than honor gear... yet it isn't... at all. Honor gear is easier to get and just as good as justice gear in PvE. PvE. PvP gear is equal to PvE gear in PvE. What is the point of justice gear again? Oh right there isn't one. If this was what they were going to do they should have just got rid of Justice and made heroics drop honor.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:38 PM ----------



    You realize that honor gear is also 458 and has free stats? You realize that they said justice gear was going to be better for PvE than honor gear... yet it isn't... at all. Honor gear is easier to get and just as good as justice gear in PvE. PvE. PvP gear is equal to PvE gear in PvE. What is the point of justice gear again? Oh right there isn't one. If this was what they were going to do they should have just got rid of Justice and made heroics drop honor.
    Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?

    Oh, and I find it much easier to get honor points by running heroic dungeons and converting it to honor points, no bots in heroics.
    Last edited by Chaozu; 2012-10-10 at 08:42 AM.

  11. #471
    Yeah, to be honest they didn't do a good job at keeping their word.
    it looks like they changed directions again and they didn't choose the right one.

  12. #472
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    If LFR is too hard then of course they will nerf it further, I haven't looked at it yet but I'm sure it's another case of people having to run it a couple of times to grasp the concept of the tactics. If they changed the JP gear item lvl to 463 I really couldn't care less, it doesn't affect me and I feel that 458 is basically the same thing, so if that would help you, fine. But it really isn't necessary, it fills it's purpose of gearing up for raids, which is what it's for.
    No that's not what it's for. That's never been what it's for. It's always been a method to combat rng dungeons and aid in the feeling of progression. Currently it doesn't do that well enough because you still feel like theirs progression in the dungeons related to directly dropping stuff from bosses. That niche your talking about has never been needed. I used to raid Karazhan in blues and greens and it didn't fucking matter.

    Raiding by it's very nature is ill suited for the looking for group dynamic. Throwing 25 people together, expecting them to work together to overcome this challenge, 25 people who don't know each or other, have no structure and no prior relationship and then making that challenge actually challenging is doomed. Christ they couldn't even get 5 people together to do it in cataclysm...

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?
    .... Power and resilience no longer take up rolls on the item. They are calculated as free bonus stats on the item. Honor gear is actually still better at this point because it has a gem socket on it. Better customization.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.
    No they never told this nonsense bullshit.

    Hardware mode raiding and highend pvp must reward better loot to work . Dailies are moreso for players who like doing them.

    For Coins you need to do some dailies but i can get enough for 1 or 2days of daily wuests,perhaps 20minutes per days.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?

    Oh, and I find it much easier to get honor points by running heroic dungeons and converting it to honor points, no bots in heroics.
    It is worth the Itemlevel it has .

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Do you realize that honor gear is worthless in pve because it has pvp power and resilience which does nothing in pve?
    Ahh apparently you don't know how iLevel works in MoP. None of the PvP stats count towards the iLevel. Since only PvE stats are counted towards iLevel, a piece of PvP gear and PvE gear of the same iLevel are equivalent for PvE purposes. All the PvP stats on the item are free. To offset this they said the iLevel for PvP gear would be lower, which it is for conquest gear. However Honor gear is equal to Justice gear for PvE.

  15. #475
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post

    Hardware mode raiding and highend pvp must reward better loot to work . Dailies are moreso for players who like doing them.

    .
    Nope. They are for everybody now because the reward is to good. The option to not do them is shittier than doing them hence people feel compelled to do them. Look if dailies genuienly were for pplayers who like doing them, then I have a simple solution. Remove the valor gear from them and keep all the cosmetic crap.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No that's not what it's for. That's never been what it's for. It's always been a method to combat rng dungeons and aid in the feeling of progression. Currently it doesn't do that well enough because you still feel like theirs progression in the dungeons related to directly dropping stuff from bosses. That niche your talking about has never been needed. I used to raid Karazhan in blues and greens and it didn't fucking matter.

    Raiding by it's very nature is ill suited for the looking for group dynamic. Throwing 25 people together, expecting them to work together to overcome this challenge, 25 people who don't know each or other, have no structure and no prior relationship and then making that challenge actually challenging is doomed. Christ they couldn't even get 5 people together to do it in cataclysm...

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 08:42 AM ----------



    .... Power and resilience no longer take up rolls on the item. They are calculated as free bonus stats on the item. Honor gear is actually still better at this point because it has a gem socket on it. Better customization.
    I doubt it's that challenging, people wiped a lot in DS LFR as well but then they either out-geared it or learned a bit of the tactics and off they went with /afk mode. If it was any easier than it probably is right now, all the bosses would be the same with no risk of wiping, meaning it's just the same old tank n spank but new boss models. I wouldn't even call such a mode easy mode, bots could do that...

    I would say that the fact that honor gear has the same amount of stats, is the worst design decision they have ever made... Even worse than introducing LFR.
    Last edited by Chaozu; 2012-10-10 at 08:48 AM.

  17. #477
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    In my bunker leading uprisings
    Posts
    9,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I doubt it's that challenging, people wiped a lot in DS LFR as well but then they either out-geared it or learned a bit of the tactics and off they went with /afk mode. If it was any easier than it probably is right now, all the bosses would be the same with no risk of wiping, meaning it's just the same old tank n spank but new boss models. I wouldn't even call such a mode easy mode, bots could do that...
    No they still wiped in DS. Right up until the end of cataclysm. I don't know how challenging it is but it doesn't matter. It's lfr. I mean I didn't think heroic dungeons were all that challenging and they weren't but throwing 5 people together to do that was such a fucking nightmare that it didn't matter. Now look what they did to "heroic" dungeons in this expansion. They're basically normals now. I tank them without even looking at the screen. The same thing can and should happen with lfr. You have normal raids and heroic raids for challenging gameplay and content. Go do them. I'm not sure why you think you also need dailies and lfr as well, christ just take the whole fucking game why don't you. Do I have your permission to log on? And I'm the one whos entitled....

    Dailies done for the day. BY THE SWEAT OF MY VIRTUAL BROW!!! Now it's time to go put up a barn or something I don't know..
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 08:54 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  18. #478
    this may have already been mentioned in this thread, but i've not read it all, so apologies if it has.

    THE TILLERS!!!

    to do 90 dailies, all you need do is grow your farm with the tillers and keep your supplies of cookable food up - why? so you can do the really easy daily quests that require you to cook food for specific people around the heartland/halfhill.

    there are 10 people you can give food to for daily quests, do that everyday (which takes about 10 mins including cooking time) and you've done 70 out of the 90 required dailies for the charms. add in the daily plant something quest, thats another 7 - oh look, only 13 dailies to go. (not counting any quests that might reward 2 lesser charms)

    thats really not a hard grind. it might cost you some money on the AH to buy cooking mats, but if you do the cooking dailies you'll not have a problem getting your 90 dailies per week.

    honestly, people bash lolwowfarmville, but they dont realise how useful it actually is (this isn't even counting the fact you can grow ores, herbs and motes of harmony!!)
    Last edited by smokii; 2012-10-10 at 08:53 AM.
    where's the goddamned ESO sub forum?

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No they still wiped in DS. Right up until the end of cataclysm. I don't know how challenging it is but it doesn't matter. It's lfr. I mean I didn't think heroic dungeons were all that challenging and they weren't but throwing 5 people together to do that was such a fucking nightmare that it didn't matter. Now look what they did to "heroic" dungeons in this expansion. They're basically normals now. I tank them without even looking at the screen. The same thing can and should happen with lfr. You have normal raids and heroic raids for challenging gameplay and content. Go do them. I'm not sure why you think needs dailies and lfr, christ just take the whole fucking game why don't you. Do I have your permission to log on? And I'm the one whos entitled....
    The same thing that can and should happen to LFR? What? LFR is easier than normal mode. If we made LFR any easier, I don't even know the reason for entering. DS was not even remotely hard, it required like no skills at all. An example, ultraxion or what's his face, the only thing you had to do was press the extra button at the right time. In normal mode and heroics you died instantly if you failed this, in LFR I think you survived it, but with like 30 % hp, people still failed at that, and took extra damage and died.

    The pin-ball fight with that orb bouncing between the raid, in LFR you don't even have to look at it. The wall can bounce it too, which leave room for what tactics? None. Yeah it needs to be easier, right... Maybe it's not a problem with the difficulty, but with the people playing? Because they are obviously already afk if they wipe on something that easy. Hell leveling up in MoP is harder because you might overpull and die...

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No they still wiped in DS. Right up until the end of cataclysm. I don't know how challenging it is but it doesn't matter. It's lfr. I mean I didn't think heroic dungeons were all that challenging and they weren't but throwing 5 people together to do that was such a fucking nightmare that it didn't matter. Now look what they did to "heroic" dungeons in this expansion. They're basically normals now. I tank them without even looking at the screen. The same thing can and should happen with lfr. You have normal raids and heroic raids for challenging gameplay and content. Go do them. I'm not sure why you think needs dailies and lfr, christ just take the whole fucking game why don't you. Do I have your permission to log on? And I'm the one whos entitled....
    Actually the end of cat was worse than the beginning. People were actually wiping on the first half towards the end. Frankly I have seen far too many groups break apart because some idiot wants to kill all the corruptions, or more than half the DPS want to AoE the blistering tentacles. Getting 5 good DPS that know what the hell they are doing, getting 2 tanks that know what they are doing, getting at least 3 heals that know what they are doing, that was what made LFR hard. Reading up on the MoP raids, there seem to be a lot of one idiot can wipe the raid mechanics. I haven't hit LFR yet so I'm not gonna pass judgement but honestly, from what history has shown me you can't teach people if you increase the difficulty of mechanics the number of wipes will just scale linearly.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •