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  1. #481
    No. You don't have to do anything. It is completely optional.
    "Let's get one thing straight. This is not a cheerocracy. I am the cheertator here. I make the cheercisions, and I will deal with the cheeronsequences. Now, if there are no more cheeruptions, we can cheertinue. Thank you."

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeina View Post
    No. You don't have to do anything. It is completely optional.
    Of course it all optional, hell you don't even have to logon or subscribe. Granted probably not the result Blizzard is looking for.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    The same thing that can and should happen to LFR? What? LFR is easier than normal mode. If we made LFR any easier, I don't even know the reason for entering. DS was not even remotely hard, it required like no skills at all. An example, ultraxion or what's his face, the only thing you had to do was press the extra button at the right time. In normal mode and heroics you died instantly if you failed this, in LFR I think you survived it, but with like 30 % hp, people still failed at that, and took extra damage and died.

    The pin-ball fight with that orb bouncing between the raid, in LFR you don't even have to look at it. The wall can bounce it too, which leave room for what tactics? None. Yeah it needs to be easier, right... Maybe it's not a problem with the difficulty, but with the people playing? Because they are obviously already afk if they wipe on something that easy. Hell leveling up in MoP is harder because you might overpull and die...
    To gear up your tunes duh. I mean the point is that it's supposed to be for people who can't raid on a regular schedule to see content. Well the only way their gonna experience it is if it's mind numbigly easy that any group of people can do it. That's exactly what lfr is. Any group of people. I mean you keep missing the point. LFR just can't be hard at all. Heroic dungeons were "hard" in cataclysm. They got nerfed so badly because throwing a group of people together without any prior organization is doomed to fail. Unless the challenge is made so fucking stupidly easy that it doesn't matter what they do. THEY COULDN'T EVEN DO THE 5 MAN EQUIVALENT OF THIS. They need to be as easy as DS basically. It sucks I know but otherwise it just becomes a massive headache.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Of course it all optional, hell you don't even have to logon or subscribe. Granted probably not the result Blizzard is looking for.
    God can you imagine if they told players. PLAYING WOW IS OPTIONAL!. I mean no business in their right fucking mind would give up the golden goose Blizzard has in this game. The extension of the optional argument is exactly that though. I don't have to do anything wow. I do it and feel forced to do some of these things because they are the best options.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 09:03 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #484
    FOUR TEE FAIVE?!?!?

    That's 7 a day, get over it.

  5. #485
    People don't understand the concept of gaming I think.
    Not everything can be a gind or so hard that it can't be completed without hours of training or study on some site.

    I for one, don't read websites to know what I should be doing in a game; not that I don't want to but if I start doing that I won't have the time to play at all.
    So I prefer to play and not to read how I should play.

    So the time I can spare out of my responsibiities and other irl stuff, I spend online in wow.
    if everything is damn challenging and I need hours and hours to progress then I think I would leave the game after a while.

    I am playing since tbc and enjoying myself very much. WOW is the only computer-game I ever played. I don't have time to play and I am certainly not a gamer.
    I like wow because in my youth I played D&D with some friends. AZeroth and the chars in it resemble D&D, so it caught me.
    I am not good in gaming overall and I am not playing any game to be good at it; I play it to have fun, that's all.

    I like MoP very much overall. In fact I have never really complained about anything in WOW. But now I see the direction they took is not providing me enjoyment anymore.
    It feels more like I am working instead of gaiming. Now, I have quite a demanding job irl and what I don't need is a game which I buy and for which I pay a monthly fee to be boring and be a new job for me.

    The end-game part of MoP is really making me think that this game is not for me anymore. Overall I think some things are really dumb, and I mean really dumb.
    The reactions from blues on the official forums aren't rational also, they react to try to make a story of it and soften things, that is their job.

    There is a reason for so much qq on the forums, official and others.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Actually you are missing the point entirely. The problem is that different activities are not rewarded equally, so there is no real choice in what activities you do which is contrary to what Blizzard told us was going to happen.
    Actually you just proved my point.

    Is not about fun (that is of course subjective) or choosing about "this evening I want to do this, instead of that", it is about efficiency so -> "how fast will I gear" or "how can I gear as fast as possible" or "how fast can I get that loot over there."
    They're not rewarded equally cause they're not equal or comparable activities.

    Dailies are just long (not even that long) not difficult and anyway in half an hour/one hour you do enough to get around 80 Valor points that is around the time you need to do a Heroic (exlucing queue times) and you get even more cause I think first heroic is 60 valors? But heroic gives also chance to loot inside the instance itself, so even if the Valor/hour is less (maybe) the loot inside the instance offset it on a design level.

    They also never said that the rewards would be equal, they just said that you may get "power increasing" rewards (points in this case) by doing different activities than just dungeons/raid
    Last edited by Brazorf; 2012-10-10 at 09:14 AM.

  7. #487
    You GET to do these dailies forever! Its a privalege

  8. #488
    people don't seem to realize you only get 1k valor per week... you'll be exalted long before you have enough valor to buy all items anyhow <.<

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    Actually you just proved my point.

    Is not about fun (that is of course subjective) or choosing about "this evening I want to do this, instead of that", it is about efficiency so -> "how fast will I gear" or "how can I gear as fast as possible" or "how fast can I get that loot over there."
    They're not rewarded equally cause they're not equal or comparable activities.

    Dailies are just long (not even that long) not difficult and anyway in half an hour/one hour you do enough to get around 80 Valor points that is around the time you need to do a Heroic (exlucing queue times) and you get even more cause I think first heroic is 60 valors? But heroic gives also chance to loot inside the instance itself, so even if the Valor/hour is less (maybe) the loot inside the instance offset it on a design level.

    They also never said that the rewards would be equal, they just said that you may get "power increasing" rewards (points in this case) by doing different activities than just dungeons/raid
    Who the fuck in their right mind would choose to play SLOWER than everyone else around them? I mean do you drive at 30 even though the speed limit is 50? That's not Blizzards fault, that's just human nature.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    To gear up your tunes duh. I mean the point is that it's supposed to be for people who can't raid on a regular schedule to see content. Well the only way their gonna experience it is if it's mind numbigly easy that any group of people can do it. That's exactly what lfr is. Any group of people. I mean you keep missing the point. LFR just can't be hard at all. Heroic dungeons were "hard" in cataclysm. They got nerfed so badly because throwing a group of people together without any prior organization is doomed to fail. Unless the challenge is made so fucking stupidly easy that it doesn't matter what they do. THEY COULDN'T EVEN DO THE 5 MAN EQUIVALENT OF THIS. They need to be as easy as DS basically. It sucks I know but otherwise it just becomes a massive headache.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:01 AM ----------



    God can you imagine if they told players. PLAYING WOW IS OPTIONAL!. I mean no business in their right fucking mind would give up the golden goose Blizzard has in this game. The extension of the optional argument is exactly that though. I don't have to do anything wow. I do it and feel forced to do some of these things because they are the best options.
    But it isn't hard at all, and any group can handle it, once they actually try a couple of times. It's impossible to make an encounter that 25 random people with no skill or gear can handle unless it's a fight that really allows 20 people to be afk, and if that's the case, just remove the need for tanks and healers altogether. Let it be like scenarios and let people queue as 3 people of any dps spec and just burst it down. But then it's not even a raid, which LFR barely is anyway...

    The point of LFR is for people with no time at all in their hands to still get to experience the content, well guess what, there is no content to experience if ALL it is, I mean really, really all it is, is tank and spank. If there is no other element to the fight, at all, that all the bosses are copy pasted from each other, then what content is there to experience?

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    But it isn't hard at all, and any group can handle it, once they actually try a couple of times. It's impossible to make an encounter that 25 random people with no skill or gear can handle unless it's a fight that really allows 20 people to be afk, and if that's the case, just remove the need for tanks and healers altogether. Let it be like scenarios and let people queue as 3 people of any dps spec and just burst it down. But then it's not even a raid, which LFR barely is anyway...
    No not really. They did a pretty good job overall in DS. It was easy enough but groups still died all the time. Again I agree it isn't hard but asking 5 people to do that was to much in cata why do you expect it won't be just as bad with 25 people in mists?

    they won't make it scenarios because people wan't to see raid content. They don't want raid challenge and don't really have the time to invest in raid challenge but why should they miss out on the rp and story bullshit? Or the gear for that matter? You have you normals and heroic raids. You can lord over everybody with your super epics and nobody will care.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No not really. They did a pretty good job overall in DS. It was easy enough but groups still died all the time. Again I agree it isn't hard but asking 5 people to do that was to much in cata why do you expect it won't be just as bad with 25 people in mists?

    they won't make it scenarios because people wan't to see raid content. They don't want raid challenge and don't really have the time to invest in raid challenge but why should they miss out on the rp and story bullshit? Or the gear for that matter? You have you normals and heroic raids. You can lord over everybody with your super epics and nobody will care.
    It's NOT a CHALLENGE though, normal mode is piss easy and LFR is even easier in that, it require no skill what so ever! DS was super easy and should not have been any easier than it was! Blizzard confirmed that they agreed with this by not adding the stacking debuff to LFR because they were happy with the difficulty.

    So what if people wipe every now in then in LFR? If they are THAT TERRIBLE, they deserve to wipe, they don't even deserve to see the content, if they are THAT terrible.

    As I said before, if they make LFR any easier there isn't even any point in bringing a raid there.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Who the fuck in their right mind would choose to play SLOWER than everyone else around them? I mean do you drive at 30 even though the speed limit is 50? That's not Blizzards fault, that's just human nature.
    Italic part, is kind spot on, at the same time it is not really Blizzard fault to have developed different systems to get stuff and human nature decided that everything is absolutely mandatory. Is it not?

    Me seems I prefer to defy human nature and take my time. Or maybe is because I do not give a flying **** about what the people around me do. Not even a tiny little bitty bit.

    I'm not doing Golden Lotus cause at the moment can't be hassled to do so regularly, gear is not a problem anyway between craft and the occasional Pug for Sha/Galleon. I'm not "drooling" of rage because some purples are locked behind reputations cause there are alternatives already to get fairly good gear, the day I don't want to do dailies I simply wont' compalint cause charms of good fortune are locked behind the dailies cause you know, I only do things that are "fun" the moment they stop to be fun I, personally, simply won't do them anymore regardless of the "speed limit".

    Edit: To be honest I think your similitude is also a bit off with your premise (that "slower than everyone else around you"). Is more like the limit is 100km/h you go 80km/h (that is a normal and fair cruise speed on a highway) see one going 100 so since he's going 100 you have to go 100 too. Oh noes.

    Edit2: normal and fair for italian standards.
    Last edited by Brazorf; 2012-10-10 at 09:45 AM.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    Italic part, is kind spot on, at the same time it is not really Blizzard fault to have developed different systems to get stuff and human nature decided that everything is absolutely mandatory. Is it not?

    Me seems I prefer to defy human nature and take my time. Or maybe is because I do not give a flying **** about what the people around me do. Not even a tiny little bitty bit.

    I'm not doing Golden Lotus cause at the moment can't be hassled to do so regularly, gear is not a problem anyway between craft and the occasional Pug for Sha/Galleon. I'm not "drooling" of rage because some purples are locked behind reputations cause there are alternatives already to get fairly good gear, the day I don't want to do dailies I simply wont' compalint cause charms of good fortune are locked behind the dailies cause you know, I only do things that are "fun" the moment they stop to be fun I, personally, simply won't do them anymore regardless of the "speed limit".

    Edit: To be honest I think your similitude is also a bit off with your premise (that "slower than everyone else around you"). Is more like the limit is 100km/h you go 80km/h (that is a normal and fair cruise speed on a highway) see one going 100 so since he's going 100 you have to go 100 too. Oh noes.

    Edit2: normal and fair for italian standards.

    It actually is Blizzards fault. They know people act like this. They've known it years now. They've reinforced and rewarded this behavior for years. Why they think turn around and say not so much and then not expect people to be pissed is retarded. Frankly I don't see the problem with the older system aside from it being to much fun.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    It's NOT a CHALLENGE though, normal mode is piss easy and LFR is even easier in that, it require no skill what so ever! DS was super easy and should not have been any easier than it was! Blizzard confirmed that they agreed with this by not adding the stacking debuff to LFR because they were happy with the difficulty.

    So what if people wipe every now in then in LFR? If they are THAT TERRIBLE, they deserve to wipe, they don't even deserve to see the content, if they are THAT terrible.

    As I said before, if they make LFR any easier there isn't even any point in bringing a raid there.
    Well since you apparently feel it's your right to tell people what they can and can't do in the game I think turnabout is only fair play. If it's too easy the too bad find another game. DS was super easy and I hope LFR in mists is that same difficulty. If you don't like it well then leave. If your that good your obviously to good for warcraft...
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWerebison View Post
    You don't have to, though. You can run dungeons. Heroics will give you lvl 463 gear, and you'll be fine to enter LFR or normal raids. You don't have to touch dailys, the VP gear is only there for those times you don't get stuff. And the coins are just a bonus roll, there's no guarantee you get stuff from that other than some gold.
    Of course I don't have to. But the disadvantages are quite obvious, therefore that isn't a valid argument in my eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    So find a friend to do the daily quests with and heal him. Best overall solution to that would otherwise be to indroduce companions like in SW:TOR, having either a DPS, tank, or healer role depending on what you prefer.
    The problem is: there is no need for a private healer when you make daylies so actually I would just run around do nothing and would even slow down my mate in terms of collection quests. While I appreciate the try to find a solution and not just repeating "you don't have to" I must state, that this scenario doesn't sound very appealing.
    R.A.I.D - Resto at its destiny


  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It actually is Blizzards fault. They know people act like this. They've known it years now. They've reinforced and rewarded this behavior for years. Why they think turn around and say not so much and then not expect people to be pissed is retarded. Frankly I don't see the problem with the older system aside from it being to much fun.
    Do not misunderstand me I think it is a valid point of view, just not the only one. They simply wanted to give more options to gear up, I do not personally see really a problem with it. There's still option to do it the old way (heroic -> raids) apart form the valor stuff that probably though will be on par with LFR (don't know for certain). But again the raids in normal are probably tuned for blue gear anyway so this does not makes reputations purple really mandatory if not in our own minds.

    Apart from that as long as we do not have the data gathered by Blizzard metrics on the game we don't really know what's going on so and can't really judge if design is good/bad this is more like idle, but interesting, conversation.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Well since you apparently feel it's your right to tell people what they can and can't do in the game I think turnabout is only fair play. If it's too easy the too bad find another game. DS was super easy and I hope LFR in mists is that same difficulty. If you don't like it well then leave. If your that good your obviously to good for warcraft...
    Problem with that argument is that Blizzard supports my thoughts on that, or rather I support Blizzard. So why don't I turn it around and tell you to find another game if it's such a chore, such a job to do 6 dailies, so hard to do some heroics to get 463 gear? Guess what, it isn't. It's nowhere near a job, and I would know since I have actually worked. If you're that bad, you're obviously too bad for warcraft.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Problem with that argument is that Blizzard supports my thoughts on that, or rather I support Blizzard. So why don't I turn it around and tell you to find another game if it's such a chore, such a job to do 6 dailies, so hard to do some heroics to get 463 gear? Guess what, it isn't. It's nowhere near a job, and I would know since I have actually worked. If you're that bad, you're obviously too bad for warcraft.
    No not really. Blizzards thoughts on this matter reflect more or less what the community wants. Remember how everyone screamed for harder heroics in cata. Yea what happened? The difference is what I'm asking for doesn't prevent people who like doing dailies from doing dailies. Is is merely that they should make content for all players. I don't want to stop you from having a challenge. I hope they provide that for you. I hope they provide stuff for other people to. Like the EASY lfr. Somehow though that ruins the experience for you and I don't particularly quite get it.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 10:19 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No not really. Blizzards thoughts on this matter reflect more or less what the community wants. Remember how everyone screamed for harder heroics in cata. Yea what happened? The difference is what I'm asking for doesn't prevent people who like doing dailies from doing dailies. Is is merely that they should make content for all players. I don't want to stop you from having a challenge. I hope they provide that for you. I hope they provide stuff for other people to. Like the EASY lfr.
    Did the stacking debuff in DS affect LFR? No it didn't. You know why? Because LFR was easy enough as it was. And we're not talking about early cata! We are talking about 4.3 when LFR was released!

    Edit:
    I never said it ruined the experience for me, I said that there is no point in making an encounter that can be soloed because the other 24 people might be afk. If they really want to raid, they should be prepared for potential wipes, comes with the territory. It's not too hard, it's that they don't try hard enough. You can't make the encounter any easier than they currently are while still claiming they are raid encounters.
    Last edited by Lora Twinblade; 2012-10-10 at 10:23 AM.

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Did the stacking debuff in DS affect LFR? No it didn't. You know why? Because LFR was easy enough as it was. And we're not talking about early cata! We are talking about 4.3 when LFR was released!
    Sure and as I've said all along if the current iteration of LFR is as easy as DS then were good. I have no problem with that. You do however. I'm not sure why you think you can use DS as an example but then in that other post you made rail about how shitty DS was.

    My point remains. Guys like you screamed it was to easy, they made it harder, it didn't work out, Blizzard responded. Now guys like you are screaming the same shit over again and just like in early cata theyll release a blog detailing why they did what they did and then things will change.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 10:25 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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