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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Apellosine View Post
    So you have to do 45 dailies to get your week's quota? That's what 2 days worth of Golden Lotus + Klaxxi, maybe 90 mins total time spent per week? If you want the extra perks then put in the time for them. Don't expect everything to be handed on a silver platter.
    45 dailies isn't 90 minutes. Unless you're playing on a private server with insane respawns, drop rates and 550 ilvl gear.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Look thgat's fine if you people like to run dailies for the sake of running dailies. I'm all for that. Have at it hoss. I mean historically dailies have just had things like mounts and pets and cosmetic shit and that's amazing. I sent blizzard a suggestion today. Add minor glyphs to the dailies. That's totally good stuff for daily quests. However ITS NOT GEAR. Or recipes. Or charms. It's value is limited or non existent for progression purposes. Look if you actually like dailies and think they're strong content then you should advocate for them to remove all of the stuff that's useful for progression from them. Let dailies stand on their own as content with rewards that are completely cosmetic and value in terms of gold.
    I perfectly see the point. I do like that tiny bit of Valor, it does not really drive me and I see it only as an additional tiny reward I still make the most of it out of dungeons/scenarios anyway.

    Let's say that, as a compromise between our respective pov, I would take away the gear from the reputations, and boost slightly the Valor obtained through dungeons/scenarios!

  3. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    That's something I would like to see as well, for those who have time but can't spend it every day as such, there should be an option to do all of the daily quests of the entire week, in one day. I remember them talking about something like that, that there would be so many dailies that it wasn't intended for you to complete all of them, but do as many as you like whenever you like. Definitely something I would want them add to the game.
    But why did they reverse that chain to the dungeons then? That's what dungeons used to do. Also have we now given up on getting people back in the world?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    I perfectly see the point. I do like that tiny bit of Valor, it does not really drive me and I see it only as an additional tiny reward I still make the most of it out of dungeons/scenarios anyway.

    Let's say that, as a compromise between our respective pov, I would take away the gear from the reputations, and boost slightly the Valor obtained through dungeons/scenarios!
    Awesome I love it. Let's hug. Look I would accept EITHER one of those. Just something to make dungeons more rewarding. To make any activity outside of dailies equally as rewarding. In fact the best suggestion I heard was to give scenarios rep. Tie them to whatever faction and give them rep for doing them.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    But why did they reverse that chain to the dungeons then? That's what dungeons used to do. Also have we now given up on getting people back in the world?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:44 AM ----------



    Awesome I love it. Let's hug. Look I would accept EITHER one of those. Just something to make dungeons more rewarding. To make any activity outside of dailies equally as rewarding. In fact the best suggestion I heard was to give scenarios rep. Tie them to whatever faction and give them rep for doing them.
    No, dungeons still had no cap limit on the rep, which was the problem with it. You could farm all the way to exalted with every faction by just equipping a tabard, with daily quests you are still limited to the ones that exist so there is still the same cap per week, and you are still out in the world doing all of this stuff.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    No, dungeons still had no cap limit on the rep, which was the problem with it. You could farm all the way to exalted with every faction by just equipping a tabard, with daily quests you are still limited to the ones that exist so there is still the same cap per week, and you are still out in the world doing all of this stuff.
    Wait what? you missed the point. The dungeon system was changed so that you could do all 7 whenever you wanted. 7 a week. They reversed that change. Go look at it now. It's back to you may receive this reward once a day. Now if their going to make dailies go to a similar 7 a day system but for rep then why the hell did they make the change to the dungeon daily? Furthermore with that system your encouraging people to put off doing their dailies till the last day. And then just soak it all in one shot. Meaning they aren't out in the world as often. That's the problem with dailies they aren't very flexible and attempting to give them flexibility just gives the whole thing more holes in it.

    It's such a fucking ridiculous system. Before I would afk in org because i was bored. Now I afk in org because I'm bored because the two groups of dailies I can do that potentially will lead me to progression are finished. Christ the dungeon grind lasted longer than this and it wasn't as transparent. This is sooo fucking obvious. Everything else is genuinely optional, even talents. They could have say given pvp players an honor weapon but they KNOW what will happen. Soooooo why do daily quests have such a good reward? IT'S SOOOOOO OBVIOUS.... and it's so transparent.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 12:12 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moshic View Post
    45 dailies isn't 90 minutes. Unless you're playing on a private server with insane respawns, drop rates and 550 ilvl gear.
    Yeah, on a higher population server the time starts to multiply. Unfortunately it starts moving into hours pretty quickly.

    Can't wait until CRZ gets cranking.
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  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by the9tail View Post
    I think they didn't. Infact I can think they can go even more extreme and I would be happier when I get to the end.
    I wouldn't, I'd be happy if they dispensed with the dailies and gated the content by making it harder. So y'know, the more skilled players progressed faster than those who are willing to treat the game as a second (or in most cases only) job. This has always been my major gripe with WoW (having moved from previously playing a game with a very high skill demand). I enjoy raiding with a bunch of my mates, we are all very good players, but also have actual lives and play other games too. I think the model of gating content by who is willing to put in the most time is rediculous,especially when its a subscription game. I pay the same as johnny-no-job and am better at the game than him, yet he will have better gear, more rewards and potentially more progression due to the fact that he lives on benefits and spends his life grinding mindless, repetative dailies that require no skill or brainpower to do.

    That is a good model how exactly?

  8. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by aim View Post
    I wouldn't, I'd be happy if they dispensed with the dailies and gated the content by making it harder.
    They tried that. It was called cataclysm. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #549
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    the daily grind is awful.

    I know you dont HAVE to do it, but in reality you do. You fall behind. so in addition to a raiding schedule you are effectively forced to grind several hours on dailies every day....its worse than a job, and it will lead to burn out very very quickly.

    I dont mind dailies as a option, but let us also use tabbards, put a daily rep limit if you want Bliz, but dont force me to do dailies, I wont stick around for long if you do as I am struggling to work up the enthusiasm.

    Wow is probably the last MMO which feels it should dictate how a player spends their play time. All other MMOs offer players choice in how they obtain stuff.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    You're one of those who want all the gear without putting time and effort into it, I see.

    How is doing the same quest over and over and over again `effort`? noone has ever enjoyed running dailys to gear, its the most dull, boring, time consuming method of gearing up possible, theres not even any difficulty once youve done the quests once through you know what to do so wheres the challenge?

    Blizzard need to change this whole system, gear should not be reliant on running dailys to achieve ive never seen anything so dull in this game in a long time, ive just hit 89 on my character and im actully dreading 90 because I know ill want to gear up and I know the only way to do that is dailys and I bloody hate dailys!

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post

    Seriously... For the first time in 2-3 years we have a somewhat "grindy" feature in the game that rewards gear, it's optional. If you don't do it then that's your fault, for those who do it they should be rewarded with things like valor gear and vanity gear. If you're not a serious raider (or gamer) then don't fucking do the dailies and gear up in LFR instead.

    Just because something takes time and somewhat a daily effort doesn't mean it's bad. I like it hell a lot more than the casual fucking weekly caps and shit like that... people who WANT and CAN spend more time in the game SHOULD get rewarded more than those who dont...
    Dailies are anything but grindy I dont understand why people call it grind. Do you even know what grind is?

    I played aion for almost 2 years that was a game that had grind.
    it took over around 200mil exp to level the last level back then and you only had a choice of 1-3 repeatables that had you killing about 20-40 mobs per turn in and it barely gave 500k back then + the amount of running you had to do. One turn in took about 20 mins if you where lucky with the drops but in worse case scenario it could take 45 mins even for one turn in! or you could run a dungeon that gave maybe 100k exp a run that took over an hour to complete. But here comes the crux you could pace the speed your self!!
    cant log in for a day no worries I catch up in the weekend by doing some extra turn ins.

    Trust me wow is not grindy.
    even back in tbc it was not grindy at all.

    You can see today's wow(Wrath, cata, Mop) like school with a teacher that gives homework every day and you have to turn it before the next one or you miss grades. But the moment you get the home work done and you have time to spare, you decide to ask the teacher for the homework for the next day because you know the next day you have lots of things to do and wont have much time for your homework, so you walk up to the teacher turn in your home work and ask for the next set of work and the teacher laughs at you puts up a troll face and says NO comeback tomorrow. Now imagine this happening multiple times a week in the end the student either end up falling asleep during class because he will still complete the homework but by going to bed late or he has enough of it and falls so far behind to eff it and leaves school.
    The vanilla wow and TBC wow where more like college where the teacher set a deadline for your project to be turned in(AKA hitting exalted = reward). however you are free to fill in when or how you do it and how much you do on a daily base or weekly base even.

    Great example is winter sabre rep in the old vanilla days you had to kill mobs and collect items for quest turn ins you could either choice to do 5 turn ins a day like a casual or like a hardcore person do 35 turn ins in the weekend. this meant this meant both people still got their mounts in the same time span.

    Now take the new wintersabre and ravasaur approach you need to raise it do some quests that reward a teeth a day? and you have to collect aprox 20 teeth to get the mount. now look back at the above example person A does the quest every day so he gets the mount in aprox 20 days however person B that would normally farm the same amount of rep in the weekend because he cant do it during the week cant possible catch up with this new structure and it now takes him minimum of 10 weeks weeks to get it.yet all weekends he is bored out of his socks because after doing the dailie he doesnt have anything else to do so he logs back out while in the old situation he would have spend more time online and set a goal for himself.

    Calling this grind *chuckles* you people sure have a weird idea of dailies being grind *shakes head* its spoon feeding content nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuuvaak View Post
    Which brings me back to the dailies themselves. They're NOT fun. Dailies are an ANCIENT MMO mechanic that can't die fast enough for me. I can't wait for some new game to come out in ten years that has free-form sandbox gameplay and no leveling. Ultima Online 2 or whatever.
    Same here Look up arche age if your interested in a sandbox. its a korean game still in development but it looks extremely promising atm
    you can do whatever you feel like doing: building houses, boats sailing around, diving for treasures, make forests if you feel like it herd cattle. siege castles (pvp) ect to much to name tbh.
    only gating in there is your labour points(generates per x amount of minutes/hour regard if your online or offline) but then again a house or a ship or a guild castle isn't something you can build on one day right? :3

    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    While I see your point you have to take into account that what person A will ever see are factions reward (and maybe some LFG). While person B while slowing down on the reputations will have access to a wider range of gear and/or different rewards through the raids he does 4 times a week.
    It is a trade off.
    I knew people would bring this up that's why i specifically put gear and rewards of rep vendor separately while the raider might have better access to gear eventually rep rewards are not only about gear but also about the fun items like mounts or other things just because a person is a raider doesn't mean he or she doesn't like mounts etc or transforming items that was my point.

    i dont really call that a fair trade off especially seeing a lot of people that defend the whole dailies thing with "if you spend more time and effort in game you should get more or faster rewards" when it comes to rep. Yet the guys (raiders) that actually plays more actively gets completely shafted in that department when it comes to rep rewards (which include ALL rewards nor only the gear).
    Last edited by Malackai; 2012-10-10 at 01:00 PM.

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    They tried that. It was called cataclysm. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
    To a certain extent, I agree. And you know what? I much prefer those first couple of weeks of Cataclysm 5 mans that were enteraining than I do these 15 minute mindless AOE fest ones they have now. I actually really liked the Cataclysm 5 mans before all the forum dwelling goblin low lives whinged non-stop, so incessantly that they nerfed them.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 01:45 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    OH NOES, WE HAVE TO WORK FOR BONUS CHANCE ON RAID GEAR!?!? CALL THE NERD COPS! THIS CANNOT GO UNCHECKED!!!

    Seriously... For the first time in 2-3 years we have a somewhat "grindy" feature in the game that rewards gear, it's optional. If you don't do it then that's your fault, for those who do it they should be rewarded with things like valor gear and vanity gear. If you're not a serious raider (or gamer) then don't fucking do the dailies and gear up in LFR instead.

    Just because something takes time and somewhat a daily effort doesn't mean it's bad. I like it hell a lot more than the casual fucking weekly caps and shit like that... people who WANT and CAN spend more time in the game SHOULD get rewarded more than those who dont...
    Ahhhh, now theres where we disagree. People who are BETTER and CAN PLAY the game SHOULD get rewarded more than those who just spend an inordinately large amount of time on it, neglecting other aspects of their life.
    Last edited by aim; 2012-10-10 at 12:46 PM.

  13. #553
    All i can say is as a person who is no longer playing WoW and quit doing dailies after doing therazane and wildhammer dailies. and Didnt start doing dailies again till molten front and stopped doing those immediately after getting the Title, and never did another daily again for the rest of 4.2-4.3.

    From my PoV dailies used to be a way to get gold each day as well as gaining rep with certian factions that had some cool rewards and even raid gear. At the start of Cata each faction had at least 1 epic raid piece for someone and im ok with that. Doing dailies and/or dungeon runs was a way to get faction rep to get that epic piece your looking for.

    To me it seems like what is going on is that the pieces of gear that you get for raiding in MoP from the factions just take more time than it did in Cata. In cata you had built rep with a few factions as you were questing in the zone. In MoP im guessing (since i dont play MoP) that the factions with the gear are only avalible to you at level 90? And that there are alot of factions you only gain rep with at level 90 so you dont have that head start getting honored or reveered as you are leveling but have to grind each facton from neutral at 90. Also not sure since i dont play if Shado-Pan requires another faction to be exalted just to get access to them, Which makes it even worse, but i dont know if thats accurate.(now that i think about it they are doing that currency system so im guessing you get coins from other factions and when you get enough you gain access to shado pan)

    I would suggest blizz have the dailies give more rep per daily so it takes less time. Or open up Shado-Pan right at 90 so you dont have to grind other dailies before hand.

    Also it seems because of server pops players doing dailies are having to take longer to do them because sooo many players are grinding the same dailies and its taking way longer. So they prolly also want to increase respawn rates of mobs and items and increase drop rates.

  14. #554
    If you do the dailies everyday not counting hidden and extra bonuses. It takes about a month to get all to exalted. Not counting the Shado Pan and August Celestials. The golden lotus are the slowest rep gain so far. Hitting Revered tomorrow. This will be sped up soon too.

    Some reputations are fast. Cloud serpent is under 2 weeks without eggs.

    I enjoy the dailies. One of the strengths of wow. You dont have to do them. But they give nice rewards. People who dont raid get equal footing too.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    In MoP im guessing (since i dont play MoP) that the factions with the gear are only avalible to you at level 90? And that there are alot of factions you only gain rep with at level 90 so you dont have that head start getting honored or reveered as you are leveling but have to grind each facton from neutral at 90.
    Not the case, you can get honored or almost honored with some of them just by doing "normal" quests while leveling.

    No "useful" item needs an exalted rep and a lot of items only need honored (so not even revered).

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Wait what? you missed the point. The dungeon system was changed so that you could do all 7 whenever you wanted. 7 a week. They reversed that change. Go look at it now. It's back to you may receive this reward once a day. Now if their going to make dailies go to a similar 7 a day system but for rep then why the hell did they make the change to the dungeon daily? Furthermore with that system your encouraging people to put off doing their dailies till the last day. And then just soak it all in one shot. Meaning they aren't out in the world as often. That's the problem with dailies they aren't very flexible and attempting to give them flexibility just gives the whole thing more holes in it.

    It's such a fucking ridiculous system. Before I would afk in org because i was bored. Now I afk in org because I'm bored because the two groups of dailies I can do that potentially will lead me to progression are finished. Christ the dungeon grind lasted longer than this and it wasn't as transparent. This is sooo fucking obvious. Everything else is genuinely optional, even talents. They could have say given pvp players an honor weapon but they KNOW what will happen. Soooooo why do daily quests have such a good reward? IT'S SOOOOOO OBVIOUS.... and it's so transparent.
    Hold on...

    Shado Pan, Klaxxi, Golden Lotus all lead to valor point gear and all combined they take more than 30 minutes, so I can't see you sitting in Org after 30 minutes with nothing to do.

    And by my calculations, IF you're correct then you're saying 30 minutes of dailies followed by 13 random heroics a day is bad, but endless heroics a day is good.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  17. #557
    Golden lotus, which has two other factions locked behind it, starts at 90.
    Order of the cloud serpent starts at 90/.
    August celestials/shadow pan starts after golden lotus is at revered (gl starts at 90)

    One can get some rep for shadow pan while leveling... but it isn't much.

  18. #558
    As a raid leader I honestly wouldn't care if someone wasn't using charms, just like I wouldn't hold it against them for not spamming LFR for Sigil's once they no longer need the gear drops. Sure they aren't bringing their 100% absolute best in a sense, but I wouldn't tell a warlock to go retrain out of mining either. Unless you are in an unreasonably min-max or very hardcore guild you have to appreciate that people only have so much time on their hands.

    Aside from that 3 CHANCES per week at random loot isn't really game breaking. I've used 5 charms so far and gotten nothing but a little gold for my trouble, and even if I did get something there is a decent chance it would be a duplicate of loot I already have.

    Also, you can effectively buy up to 10 lesser charms per day with the tiller friendship cooking dailies, at least until you max those reps (22 hand ins if you don't get any rep by other means). Expensive certainly, but if you want the free roll without the effort there it is.

  19. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synstir View Post
    Golden lotus, which has two other factions locked behind it, starts at 90.
    This is just another example of artificial gating, which only serves to prolong their 'content'. I know they have *some* good intentions over there, but a system like this is only to prevent you from finishing it as quickly as possible.

    That may be fine in other games, but we all know they have failed to deliver actual content in a timely manner so it really is just a road block. I'm not sure why people marvel like this game is the 9th Wonder of the World.

    "Oh wow, look at all the dailies I get to do. Oh man, when I finally max out Golden Lotus I get two more sets of dailies I get to do. And each one of these has one piece of gear I get at exalted, that is awesome! I can totally gear out my character over the next year from questing every day for 3 hours at a time like I'm leveling all over again. This is revolutionary!"

  20. #560
    There are 300ish daily quests. You have to do about 6 of them every day. That is NOT a grind.

    But the big thing is, if you were a normal player, you would have done a ton of them the first two weeks, which means you would be far ahead on your coins. Most players can take a break from dailies for a few weeks ALREADY. The other important thing.. in a few weeks, our gear will be much better, which will make those 6 dailies like cutting through butter.

    really? 6 quests a day? too much?? You are obviously a new player and don´t remember Vanilla where you had to farm mats for 10 hours a week just to make pots to raid... but but.. 6 pots per day.. it is soooo much..

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