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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Noselacri View Post
    I feel like I'm facing a future of perpetual daily quest grinds. Yeah, you can opt not to do it, but everything is dependent on the damned things. It's bad enough getting to revered/exalted with a bunch of them when dailies are the only way to gain rep, it'll take weeks and weeks, but it seems I'll have to keep doing them forever if I want fortune charms.

    Who will ever want to be a raider without getting the most out of it? To most players, raiding without their weekly quota of charms is out of the question. It certainly would taint the incentive for me, knowing I'm missing out on probably several raid drops per month just because I'm not grinding freakin' dailies. I expect most guilds will require that their members keep topped up on charms -- why bring a member who isn't getting the most out of the raid if you could bring someone who gets the extra upgrades and thus improves progression? You wouldn't bring someone who doesn't enchant his gear.

    The problem is that these dailies are terrible. It's not only a grind, it's an exercise in frustration to try and do the same quest as fifty other players. It's a mob-tagging, ninja-clicking competition. I don't know how I'd be able to do that forever with no end in sight, every day, just so I don't miss out on gear upgrades from an entirely unrelated part of the game.

    I think we'll need alternative ways to get these charms. They should be obtainable with VP and/or CP. I don't feel like I should have to do 45 dailies a week every week for the rest of the time I play WoW. It's just as reasonable to expect people to do dungeons or PvP -- those activities are certainly no less related to the act of raiding, and I expect most players would be a little more enthusiastic about those things than dailies. Whatever the case, I feel like alternatives will be necessary. I certainly will not be doing 45 dailies every week - and more if I want to raid with alts as well - forever. The "for as long as I play WoW" part might just get cut very short if that's how it has to be.
    So you have to do 45 dailies to get your week's quota? That's what 2 days worth of Golden Lotus + Klaxxi, maybe 90 mins total time spent per week? If you want the extra perks then put in the time for them. Don't expect everything to be handed on a silver platter.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No because it went right along with something I was doing naturally anyway. Farming dungeons for gear and for valor points and justice points. It was great. In fact it was to rewarding they had to change it. They went a tad bit overboard and I don't see why they couldn't still give you rep in dungeons with a cap but they've basically said that's not going to happen and we should just learn to live with the status quo. PLAYING IT MY WAY WITH CHOICE IN MOP!

    Like I don't see why were in favor of them destroying a system that had such great synergy and was so richly rewarding to the players. I see why Blizzard want's to do it makes total sense to me. I don't see why the players go along with it though.
    Richly rewarding, exactly. You already get tons of rewards from farming heroics, justice points, valor points on top of the gear that drops. Having reputation there would make the whole process too easy/quick/boring, even with a cap per day. Daily quests is Blizzards way to get people out of the cities, which I think is key here. That was basicaly the main goal with MoP, to get people out in the world and have things to do. If you have an alternative to daily quests, that could give rep, that does not involve zoning into dungeons/battlegrounds/arena/raids that basically anyone can do while still keeping it somewhat fresh I'm all ears. But daily quests is the best way I can think of to give players different tasks to complete/solve all over the world.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post

    None of that was more fun or more convinient than dailies.
    And yet people worship Vanilla and BC like they were the fucking second coming. These grindy elements, gated progression, were what differentiated BC and Vanilla from Wrath and Cata.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    'you barely noticed you were even doing it'

    Yeah, that sounds like an utterly awful design to me. Choosing how to progress your character = good. Just getting all rewards for doing the same content every single week = boring. 'Barely noticing' the rewards you're getting... You can't really be working for that, can you? It's just falling into your lap. 'Well I'm here for loot and VP, oh and look here's some reputation too, cool I guess'

    With MoP, I can either run heroics to get gear, or do dailies for elder charms/VP/gold, or do scenarios for VP/gear, or farm spirits of harmony to craft gear/get gold... There's options. It's not all just grinding 7 random dungeons per week for everything.
    Say I want elder charms. What are my options?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Are you nuts? thats amazing. It's perfect synergy and perfectly rewarding for people. Why do you want to do stupid painful rep grinds? I mean as it stands now you don't have choice how you progress your character. If you don't raid you run dailies and at some point pray you'll get to spend your vp in like 2 months. I don't see how running dungeons is any more or less work than running dailies, in fact it isn't. It's the same fucking thing. The only difference is that the process for grinding those reps is the least painful in dungeons because it's something you would already be doing anyway. Now you kinda have to go out of your way to do this bs and dungeons themselves are simply less rewarding. Their aren't options man. I know you want to follow the party line but their simply isn't. If they put a tabard in the game then we get options. As it stands now VP is WORTHLESS without running dailies. The choice ends the minute I have every piece of gear I need from the heroic dungeon. Actually it really ends before that. Now I only need like specific bosses from specific dungeons so the "choice" i have is to que for those dudes then leave. JP is worthless and VP is likewise without doing the dailies.Then the choice becomes log on once a week for lfr assuming I can get a group that will kill it. We went from raid or die in cata to dailies or die.
    You'd have a point if you really did have to do dailies every day. As it stands, you can skip quite a few days and not fall behind in any meaningful or noticeable way. You'll still have plenty of elder charms, still have lots of VP (especially when we're getting it from raids reliably), and so long as you hit revered with a single faction every 4-5 weeks, still have plenty of time to get all the loot you need.

    Furthermore, you could quite easily ignore reputations and dailies entirely, and just get all your loot from raids. Assuming you're not in a realm first or above guild, of course. Ilevel 463 gear is plenty to clear normal mode Mogu'shan Vaults, then you get loot from there over the next few weeks and are sufficiently geared for Heart of Fear/Terrace of Endless Springs when they unlock.

    Sure, you need to do dailies to be optimal... But then, isn't that what players have wanted? A method of doing extra stuff, do MORE than the average player, in order to get better rewards?

    Eh, I dunno. All I know is I really enjoy these dailies and am glad for the excuse to just gtfo from the main city of the expansion.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    Say I want elder charms. What are my options?
    You can choose to do your dailies in a different spot each day. It's not MUCH choice, but its a hell of a lot better than grinding random dungeons till you can't stand the fucking sight of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Xothic - Prot Paladin - Expired at the end of 5.1, returned start of 5.4, left again. Returned again, left again, returned again. You know how it is.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    Say I want elder charms. What are my options?
    Do a couple days of dailies and get enough for the week. Yeah, sure, there's only one option for elder charms at the moment, but the way they're designed they're not even mandatory. They're a bonus; you could quite easily get all the loot you could ever want/need without them. It's how we played the game before MoP, after all!

    I really don't think a couple days of dailies (or, when all dailies are unlocked, a single day) per week is too much to ask for.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Richly rewarding, exactly. You already get tons of rewards from farming heroics, justice points, valor points on top of the gear that drops. Having reputation there would make the whole process too easy/quick/boring, even with a cap per day. Daily quests is Blizzards way to get people out of the cities, which I think is key here. That was basicaly the main goal with MoP, to get people out in the world and have things to do. If you have an alternative to daily quests, that could give rep, that does not involve zoning into dungeons/battlegrounds/arena/raids that basically anyone can do while still keeping it somewhat fresh I'm all ears. But daily quests is the best way I can think of to give players different tasks to complete/solve all over the world.
    Not anymore you don't. Seriously it would be one thing if they just took the rep out of the dungeons but they didn't just do that. They killed the reward from dungeons. It's so measly now and you can only spend it doing dailies anyway so it's not very rewarding at all.

    As for getting people out in the world well it doesn't fucking work. They go out and do their quests and then port back to org and afk. Daily content ISN'T compelling in and of itself to keep people in the world. In fact the only reason it has rep gear as far as I can tell is that people wouldn't fucking touch them otherwise. It's a bad design because it assumes that people won't rush to finish their dailies asap (either because doing them is unpleasant or because people just are effecient like that in warcraft) and will just hang around and chill. That's crazy though. I mean why? If your done the dailies why keep hanging around the world? It takes me like 30 minutes to run klaxxi and golden lotus christ I can't even do shado pan yet and the celestials because their gated behind golden lotus. I mean if I had pan and celestials it may take me an hour but the point is it's not compelling or rewarding or really just deep enough to keep me out there for prolonged periods. As soon as I'm done them as quickly as I can do them I'm back at org presuming that i actually have the stomach to do them.

    I had an idea about what they could have done. One of the pandas at the start says something about pandaria being a land that reacts to bad vodoo or some shit like that. Negative vibes affect the land. Well that being the case why not some kind of rift system? Events happen and the events would be rewarding and people would be on the look out for them. I mean that's just something I came up with over dinner last night with friends. Why the hell can't blizzard do anything more creative than daily quests with bad ass rep gear?
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    Say I want elder charms. What are my options?
    Elder charms was added to the game for raiders who wanted another reason to log on, aside from every raid night. It's incredibly easy and doesn't take much time at all to get 90 smaller charms, I got about 516 on my character at the moment, with 6 elder charms on top of that. Yeah sure you don't have many options to obtain them, but they aren't mandatory to obtain either.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Yeah, sure, there's only one option for elder charms at the moment
    Thank you.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noselacri View Post
    I expect most guilds will require that their members keep topped up on charms -- why bring a member who isn't getting the most out of the raid if you could bring someone who gets the extra upgrades and thus improves progression? You wouldn't bring someone who doesn't enchant his gear.
    How are they gonna check how many charms you have??? They can't really... So for all they know you could be there with 10 Charms.... or none....

    The problem is that these dailies are terrible. It's not only a grind, it's an exercise in frustration to try and do the same quest as fifty other players. It's a mob-tagging, ninja-clicking competition. I don't know how I'd be able to do that forever with no end in sight, every day, just so I don't miss out on gear upgrades from an entirely unrelated part of the game.
    That will be over in a week or two mostly....


    [B][U]Whatever the case, I feel like alternatives will be necessary. I certainly will not be doing 45 dailies every week - and more if I want to raid with alts as well - forever. The "for as long as I play WoW" part might just get cut very short if that's how it has to be.
    Don't know what they'll do really.... they might say 'Hey we add a few dozen new dailies each content patch' just to create some diversity in the daily grind... or maybe have alternative ways, but I think for now it'll only be new daily quests in content patches.
    Last edited by velde046; 2012-10-09 at 01:31 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    Thank you.
    It's nice of you to take quotes out of context to support your misguided arguments. That's exactly the sort of thing that encourages a great and healthy discussion!

  13. #53
    You want the charms? Do the dailies.

    Why is it hard to understand that effort equals rewards?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    You'd have a point if you really did have to do dailies every day. As it stands, you can skip quite a few days and not fall behind in any meaningful or noticeable way. You'll still have plenty of elder charms, still have lots of VP (especially when we're getting it from raids reliably), and so long as you hit revered with a single faction every 4-5 weeks, still have plenty of time to get all the loot you need.

    Furthermore, you could quite easily ignore reputations and dailies entirely, and just get all your loot from raids. Assuming you're not in a realm first or above guild, of course. Ilevel 463 gear is plenty to clear normal mode Mogu'shan Vaults, then you get loot from there over the next few weeks and are sufficiently geared for Heart of Fear/Terrace of Endless Springs when they unlock.

    Sure, you need to do dailies to be optimal... But then, isn't that what players have wanted? A method of doing extra stuff, do MORE than the average player, in order to get better rewards?

    Eh, I dunno. All I know is I really enjoy these dailies and am glad for the excuse to just gtfo from the main city of the expansion.

    But after you done those dailies what? Do you still hang out or do you just head back to org? I'm betting most people just head back to org unless they have other business to conduct. The simple fact is that for a long time Blizzard has allowed and even encouraged a play style that many people such as myself enjoyed immensely. The term we came up with at dinner me and a few friends was Hardcore Casual. Meaning we like to grow and progress the hell out our characters but the minute it becomes a job not so much. Now this play style was greatly rewarded in catacalysm because well dungeons had it all and we could do them at our leisure. Dailies don't have that flexiblity. Like if I have one day to play for 8 hours and then another day for 2 I'm really loosing out. You remember when they changed dungeons so you could run them 7 at a time or 7 whenever you liked in the week? That was great. That was flexibility. They reverted that change to oddly enough.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Not anymore you don't. Seriously it would be one thing if they just took the rep out of the dungeons but they didn't just do that. They killed the reward from dungeons. It's so measly now and you can only spend it doing dailies anyway so it's not very rewarding at all.

    As for getting people out in the world well it doesn't fucking work. They go out and do their quests and then port back to org and afk. Daily content ISN'T compelling in and of itself to keep people in the world. In fact the only reason it has rep gear as far as I can tell is that people wouldn't fucking touch them otherwise. It's a bad design because it assumes that people won't rush to finish their dailies asap (either because doing them is unpleasant or because people just are effecient like that in warcraft) and will just hang around and chill. That's crazy though. I mean why? If your done the dailies why keep hanging around the world? It takes me like 30 minutes to run klaxxi and golden lotus christ I can't even do shado pan yet and the celestials because their gated behind golden lotus. I mean if I had pan and celestials it may take me an hour but the point is it's not compelling or rewarding or really just deep enough to keep me out there for prolonged periods. As soon as I'm done them as quickly as I can do them I'm back at org presuming that i actually have the stomach to do them.

    I had an idea about what they could have done. One of the pandas at the start says something about pandaria being a land that reacts to bad vodoo or some shit like that. Negative vibes affect the land. Well that being the case why not some kind of rift system? Events happen and the events would be rewarding and people would be on the look out for them. I mean that's just something I came up with over dinner last night with friends. Why the hell can't blizzard do anything more creative than daily quests with bad ass rep gear?
    First of all, where are they when they do the daily quests? That's right, out in the world. So I would say they succeeded quite well with that. Secondly, why would you go to Orgrimmar? All the MoP vendors are in Pandaria, if anything the Horde/Alliance Pandaria base. Thirdly, you do get rewards from Heroics, I got 466 Item level on my lock and that's more than enough to enter normal mode raiding. Fourth: Valor points can be spent even if you don't get rep, it will be possible to use to upgrade your gear's item level further.

    So these events would work something like daily quests..? You go to them once per day... and complete a task?

    Edit: The only time I ever head to Orgrimmar was when.... Eeeh... Oh yeah I bought honor points for justice points. That's the only reason I can find to ever go back to that dreadful place.

  16. #56
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    Somehow I don't think Blizzard intended every single raider to have a charm to use every single time an item drops that they don't need, but since pure unadulterated greed is what drives people in WoW, that's what people want, and since dailies are the only way of getting these greed-sating items of extra epix, dailies must be complained about.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    It's nice of you to take quotes out of context to support your misguided arguments. That's exactly the sort of thing that encourages a great and healthy discussion!
    But everything else you said was unnecessary, irrelevant fluff. The part I quoted was the answer to the question.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post

    5.1 already has a PTR incoming, so that does give an indication for how quick they wanna introduce more content.

    Or with new 5.1 daily quests to-do for them (they already mentioned new rep factions to grind on the 5.1 sneak peak)

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Noselacri View Post
    it seems I'll have to keep doing them forever if I want fortune charms.
    my main has 180+ lesser charms (x2 stacks so that's 360+ lesser charms, enough for 4 weeks without doing dailies) they're sittin in my bag, wasting spaces. My main is a JC miner. I've got the epic JC mount pattern from the celestial cloud serpent NPC vendor (exalted via eggs), I'm still grinding the golden lotus to hit revered to open the august celestial & shado pan dailies, but I don't think I wanna do them all for my alts, it's too much work to do. it takes bout 1-1.5 hours to do the tillers - anglers - golden lotus - klaxxi dailies alone (I'm done with the cloud serpent dailies). no idea how much time do we need to hit exalted with august celestial & shado pan after we hit revered with the golden lotus :\

  20. #60
    Brewmaster Xothic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    But everything else you said was unnecessary, irrelevant fluff. The part I quoted was the answer to the question.
    Well shit, if you want to be a smart ass about it, there are 303 separate ways to gather charms.

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=90458/le...#reward-from-q
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Xothic - Prot Paladin - Expired at the end of 5.1, returned start of 5.4, left again. Returned again, left again, returned again. You know how it is.

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