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  1. #321
    Blizzard have already admited that having 99% of the game populatinon in SW/Orgrimmar was a huge mistake, that destroyed the WoW open world mmo-rpg feeling. Cata version of WoW was a 3D chat room with minigames...

    Blizzard fixed that, welcome to the real WORLD of warcraft!
    "PvE is like playing chess against an opponent that makes the same moves everytime"

    "PvP is like playing chess"

  2. #322
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    If 1 hour of GW2 is more rewarding at max level, play GW2.
    I find WoW more fun, both leveling and at max level, than I had leveling in GW2. I liked aspects of the game, but overall it's not really any different to me, so I play WoW.

    I don't see the comparison, though. It seems like GW2 is no more favorable on choosing your time on a main vs alt than any other MMO. I didn't like the 4 character limit too much and I didn't want to buy additional character slots.
    I didn't say either was more enjoyable, just that your efforts are met with more rewards in an overall take on the situation. Since you specifically asked, it is incredibly more favorable. All your resources are actually shared between characters and there is nothing that forces you into any one activity on your main. There are a variety of approaches to completing the same goals, instead of only one way to accomplish one goal.

    It's not perfect. Most people that are not satisfied with the MMO design as a whole echo that our time needs to be rewarded for an account as a whole. It shouldn't matter if you want to farm currency on your main to give to your alt. Crafting materials, achievements, currency, etc should be for your whole account. It's an outdated and elitist design that says you are required to invest x amount of time per character you want to experience or else you get nothing.

    The problem with Blizzard is that they concede these points while outright contradicting them at the same time. WoW lives in a continual paradox in the present where they are trying to concede just enough to keep people paying, while trying to convince you that you don't want it the way you are asking for it. Then we have the outspoken community which unknowingly seeks to reinforce this same terrible mentality.

    It's not about give it with no effort, or less effort...it's about give it with choices. Don't put valor on every activity in the game and then turn around and give only one way to 'earn' spending it. I've gone on about this in too many threads recently, so it doesn't really need a lot of explanation.

    They either need to make the game hardcore or open the whole door for choices. You can't just leave it ajar, only to close it as someone tries to get their foot in it. Either open or closed, nothing in between. People need to see that this is not for the benefit of EITHER side of their customer base. It is an attempt to capture each side *just* enough to keep making money.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by AiAtola View Post
    Blizzard have already admited that having 99% of the game populatinon in SW/Orgrimmar was a huge mistake, that destroyed the WoW open world mmo-rpg feeling. Cata version of WoW was a 3D chat room with minigames...

    Blizzard fixed that, welcome to the real WORLD of warcraft!
    I think having dailes is a good thing, but requiring them isnt the answer. The reason 99% of the pop as you say was in those cities isnt because there were no dailies to do, it was because you had tabards that you could run dungeons in to gain rep instead of doing dailies. Sooo what needed to happen if they didnt want ppl sitting in cites Qing for dungeons was get rid of the tabards. Have some epic gear at the end of each exalted faction and have gear purchaseable by doing dungeons. That way if ppl dont feel they need those epic pieces they can sit in cities and Q, if ppl want those pieces they can do dailies.

  4. #324
    I'm seeing a lot of hate towards dailies, but I am also seeing no suggestions of alternatives. Repeatable content is central to MMORPG gameplay, so if you hate repeatable content, perhaps MMORPGs aren't for you.

  5. #325
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    1 hour of GW2 is more rewarding regardless of my level than what I can get in WoW doing anything but dailies at 90. I much prefer my choice or illusion thereof.
    You know, if GW2 has taught me anything its that I dont need to rush anything, its just a waste and content will be there when Im ready. I dont have to be rewarded in any set time. Im so much happier progressing at my own pace, I could careless how far everyone is after two weeks, Ill get there when I get there.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of hate towards dailies, but I am also seeing no suggestions of alternatives. Repeatable content is central to MMORPG gameplay, so if you hate repeatable content, perhaps MMORPGs aren't for you.
    The alternative is to let other activities that are in fact, repeatable, be a viable means of gaining faction.

    Dailies just happen, by virtue of basically being a continuation of the levelling process, to be something that players don't want to in bulk.

    There are too many hubs, too many dailies and you can bet your boots when players get done with them, they hardcore will do enough for their luck charms at most and others won't do them at all.

    They simply are not very interesting and after you've done a 5 minute task 25 times, you cease to be entertained by it unless you have an unusual capacity to be amused by the ordinary.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 07:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkjester56 View Post
    all i ever read was how easy cata was and how BC was the best. now they go back to roots and they complain. its a cycle of shit.
    Even in BC killing mobs in dungeons gave faction in normal and heroic dungeons. The tabard system was just a way to make that a bit more flexible.

    Cataclysm might have been a bit easier towards the end, but it was the difficulty in the beginning that ran off a million subscribers and the losses at the end had a lot more to do with a long gap with no new content than it being "easy".

    There's nothing inherently difficult about grinding rep with mindless dailies that resemble the 15 bajillion quests you just finished to get to level 90. Other than restraining yourself from logging into battle net and clicking the "cancel my subscription" button.

  7. #327
    The problem with dailies is a perception one really. It feels like a grind because it has to be done every day to be of maximum efficiency. There was a huge difference for example, between awarding random dungeon rewards once a day, and 7 times per week. When you let the user pick their own pace, even if you cap that pace, it feels more optional and less like a chore. Having to find the time every day to go grind through those abysmal golden lotus dailies seems like a chore, but I've spent hours grinding things like timbermaw hold rep that were far more tedious but felt far less like work because I wasn't "falling behind" by taking time off from them.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of hate towards dailies, but I am also seeing no suggestions of alternatives. Repeatable content is central to MMORPG gameplay, so if you hate repeatable content, perhaps MMORPGs aren't for you.
    This is unfortunately a "WoW was my first MMO" comment. In classic MMOs, the same things rarely happened twice. Even trying to hunt in the same general AREA was different all the time in Ultima Online classic. There were no factions, no storyline in particular even - the players provided all the content. Problem is, people WANT casual content and they want a treadmill. They would rather be fed content constantly than make their own.

    Players tried in WoW. They tried to do something besides level, raid, afk in the city until the next xpac. Remember Exploration and wall-walking? How about deregulated twink PVP? In-game casinos?

    sorry brah that's not leveling and raiding! please return to leveling and raiding.

    Current games are designed around this concept. Developers don't want you using databases and looking up strategies and number crunching anymore, or having to network hard outside the game to get anywhere. They never intended for applying to a guild to be like a job interview where you actually had to have something to offer to be accepted. SO now we've got guild perks to leech off of as soon as we roll a new char and LFR. Without wanting their player base to do all that "work" (which was the FUN part of MMOs compared to other games)... we're stuck with shit like dailies to keep us occupied.

    Honestly, the dailies are easy as hell anyway. I'm done with all of them in an hour. If you've only got two hours of free time a night, why the hell are you playing an MMO?? Improve your real life, play xbox, do something more suitable for a maximum of two hours a night.
    Last edited by tuuvaak; 2012-10-09 at 07:57 PM.

    smile!! Hearts loves you!!

  9. #329
    Forever is long time - you won't be doing them forever.

    So shut up already. Your alternative by the way, Valor/Conquest points, just shifts the grind to a different thing. In the end it's a grind - whatever color you paint it.

    You don't like dailies, well, until blizzard changes that, guess what, suck it up. Go play something else - because in the meantime you have to play within the bounds set by Blizzard.

    Enjoy.

  10. #330
    Pretty simple answers to this problem. Provide alternate ways to get charms of good fortune, but retain the 90/week turnin cap.

    Sell them for justice points, honor points, and gold. Set them tradeable so they can be auctioned. Increase the reward for dailies so doing ~2-3 hours of dailies will get 90 charms. Add turnin quests for tradeskill materials like windwool bolts, uncommon gems, enchanting crystals, exotic leather, etc.

  11. #331
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivalen View Post
    Forever is long time - you won't be doing them forever.

    So shut up already. Your alternative by the way, Valor/Conquest points, just shifts the grind to a different thing. In the end it's a grind - whatever color you paint it.

    You don't like dailies, well, until blizzard changes that, guess what, suck it up. Go play something else - because in the meantime you have to play within the bounds set by Blizzard.

    Enjoy.
    Except you must not even know how the system works, since you seem to think that Valor Points are somehow a different system that isn't connected to the daily issue. I'm sorry, but that's not an 'alternative'. Maybe play the game first before you bombard a thread with nonsense.

  12. #332
    Stood in the Fire Shedi's Avatar
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    I don't like dailies, so I don't do them. It's actually as simple as that :-)

    <Avalerion> - Top EU 6 hours per week raiding guild (14/14HC) recruiting for Mythic!

  13. #333
    Since you are doing the dailies now everyday to get the rep, just save the charms and you should be able to just turn them in later on each week for the gold charm. I don't think there is a limit on the number of lesser charms you can hold. Think of it like relics of ulduar and stockpile that shiznit. lol

  14. #334
    Bloodsail Admiral Daedelus's Avatar
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    I currently have 450 lesser charms in my bags. I could not do another daily for 5 weeks and I'd have enough for my 3 charms every week.

    You don't need to do every daily every day, or even some of the dailies some of the days to have plenty of charms for your weekly quota.

  15. #335
    Noselacri - I am not trying to instigate or be hateful, but I think you're exaggerating.

    I around 450 lesser charms in my inventory waiting to be traded. That's over a month worth just from doing dailies in the past two weeks to two and half weeks.

    While you may not want to participate in the daily grind, it seems to me that you're making a problem where there isn't one. If you do your golden lotus dailies every day, just those ones, you'll have an abundance of lesser coins. If you throw in the Klaxxi'vess dailies, you'll have coins galore.

    I have considered destroying a stack or two so that I can free up inventory space. You said you don't want to be stuck in a perpetual daily grind - you're not. By the time I've gotten exalted with everyone, I'll have enough coins for 3 to 5 months of raiding. Perhaps you should look at the big picture rather than saying, "ugh, I don't like this so it should be changed."

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedelus View Post
    I currently have 450 lesser charms in my bags. I could not do another daily for 5 weeks and I'd have enough for my 3 charms every week.

    You don't need to do every daily every day, or even some of the dailies some of the days to have plenty of charms for your weekly quota.
    Exactly my point.

  16. #336
    I think you missed the point Femto1. If you only continue with farming dailies until you hit exalted you will have to go back doing them sometimes afterwards unless you don't want your bonus roll. I'd expect Blizzard to implement a honor/justice points to reputation-token & coins exchange in the early new year.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by klausistklaus View Post
    I think you missed the point Femto1. If you only continue with farming dailies until you hit exalted you will have to go back doing them sometimes afterwards unless you don't want your bonus roll. I'd expect Blizzard to implement a honor/justice points to reputation-token & coins exchange in the early new year.
    Not really, Blizzard are adding new daily quests with patches, 5.1 being the first to bring in new I believe. Mostly to keep it current and fresh.

  18. #338
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    OP you are wrong. They might be annoying to do, but most of the time you need to do 45 dailies, which can be done in 2-4 days depending on how many dailies you do. Ofcourse this is only counting the dailies that reward 2 Lesser Charms each. Also no one is forcing you. They even said it is a low chance to get loot from using them.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I didn't say either was more enjoyable, just that your efforts are met with more rewards in an overall take on the situation. Since you specifically asked, it is incredibly more favorable. All your resources are actually shared between characters and there is nothing that forces you into any one activity on your main. There are a variety of approaches to completing the same goals, instead of only one way to accomplish one goal.

    It's not perfect. Most people that are not satisfied with the MMO design as a whole echo that our time needs to be rewarded for an account as a whole. It shouldn't matter if you want to farm currency on your main to give to your alt. Crafting materials, achievements, currency, etc should be for your whole account. It's an outdated and elitist design that says you are required to invest x amount of time per character you want to experience or else you get nothing.
    I'm on the fence on that. I suppose it's because I AM an old hat MMO player and I really miss the RPG feel of games like EverQuest where the game felt more like spending time as a character living in a fantasy world and less like popping a disc in a console system. Sharing resources between characters I easily concede. There's no difference between going to a bank and seeing all your alts' crafting mats vs. mailing them. Ghostcrawler has stated the same.

    I like account wide titles and mounts. My DK can ride on a DK themed mount before I manage to get the achievement for him, my druid can have the druidy title I got on my main years ago. But I question if the game would be fun removing all restrictions. If I raid gear a tank and insta-queue for heroics, faceroll them, and max JP or VP, should every alt have access to those VP and JP? I'm not saying yes or no here, I'm just not sure I like the feel of it.

    Doing something on a character helps build that character to my mind. My druid has Guardian of Cenarius title, but I still want to get the rep for him. I've seen some suggest rep should be account wide...I don't like the idea of doing something on a character and now every character you ever make is instantly the renowned champion of that faction. I like this upcoming double rep and the double valor for alts, but the alt is still DOING something for it, even if it's lessened.

    It's a balancing act and a somewhat tricky one at that. I just feel like the gaming industry as a whole has butchered, eviscerated, and mutilated any semblance of RPG. Now you just add some stats and abilities on a game and suddenly it's somehow an RPG. Upgrading a gun differently in an FPS doesn't make an RPG for example. I understand the new generation of gamer demands the quicker gratification of the MMOArcade and the older gamer that doesn't have time finds benefit in it but I miss the MMORPG where it wasn't about gear and raids, but about exploring and finding adventure as you went, regardless of what it might be.

    It's not elitist, it's a detachment from the genre itself. It feels like the character makes no difference anymore and it's not like any new MMOs are embracing the RPG that used be at the end of their genre.

    TLDR: Maybe I'm an old fogey.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  20. #340
    I'd love to see a cross-check of everyone complaining that dailies are too time consuming with people who complain that WoW has gone down the wrong path with making things too casual and handing you gear on a silver platter.

    It would be hillarious to compare all the "TBC was the best because you had to work for your reward" posters to the "dailies take too long and are too much of a grind" posters and see which names appear in both arguments.

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