So... I'll have to do these dailies *forever*?

[Deleted]

Your pizza analogy is not quite accurate. I mean if I had two food options and Pizza was the tastier of course you'd take pizza. It tastes pizza. It's not that your froced into any one thing, your compelled into one path because it's better than the other. If Pizza wasn't tastier then the other food you had to choose from then you could say it was an equal choice but since Pizza is tastier than a shit sandwhich you take Pizza. dailies are pizza, dungeons are shit sandwhiches.

World of Warcraft became the huge success it was by moving away from bad rng systems. If I wanted that I'd go play torchlight. I never "bought" all the gear I needed in any expansion, that is just hyperbole. I did however buy pieces to combat the rng in dungeons

No they are not rewarding. By any measure. Compared to what you had before most certainly. People leave them after the boss doesn't drop the gear they need. They are not rewarding. They don't drop sufficient quantities of either currency for gear and that gear is less then what you'd get in the dungeon anyway. Dailies are far more rewarding because they will eventually lead to a path that gives you much greater gear and that path is all but certain and not subject to rng. How bout this every daily quest has a chance to give you max rep or zero rep. Or some random number in between. Sounds good doesn't it

I will be able to afk in lfr in no time I'm sure. As soon as they nerf the crap out of it. People failed at DS right up until the end cataclysm. I'm not sure how or why you think putting 25 players together and expecting them to be co-ordinated is a brilliant idea.

Wow, so you always eat pizza for breakfast huh? I mean it tastes better than whatever sandwich you would otherwise eat, right?

No, despite what you belive the moving away from RNG is not what made WoW great. If that was true then either WoW wouldn't have any players left or there wouldn't be any RNG left, yet I see lots of it, even in Cata.

Yes they aren't as rewarding as in Cataclysm, THAT'S BECAUSE, Cataclysm gave you free gear for zero effort! It was TOO rewarding! It was a TERRIBLE system. This great gear you talk about from dailies, require a lot of VP, which means it takes a lot of EFFORT (take notice of that word because I don't think you know what it means), and it's still worse than raiding gear.

[Glorious Leader]

Yep more screaming and howling of abuse at blizzard from the howler monkies.

Yuup. And if and when they nerf all this bs into the ground a month or so from now invalidating all that "hard work" what do you think will happen? this system should have never left beta like it was

[vac]

I believe that compensation comes in the form of gold, valor, rep, increased chance at raid loot, and whatever sense of accomplishment and enjoyment a person gets out of it. I mean, if we're being honest, nothing in this game gives "real" compensation, other than [B]the thrill of pvp, the elation at downing difficult bosses, a social network/B], enjoyment of a video game, laughter at trolls, and a sense of accomplishment when I get a new achievement or gain another level of reputation. Also, whatever sexual pleasure people get out of Moonguard. :P

i would basically aim at the highlighted. Ingame elements like gold / equip are just tools and it really doesn't matter how much you have as long it is enough for what you want to do. The daily system is the devs saying "invest alot of extra time in our game and you may get things faster"
If you really follow trough with this it will double your playtime/week as a raider which is another fuck you to time-restricted players
and also a bad time investment in general as doing those dailys wont double your loot chance while it does double your playtime

[Deleted]

And I'm not really sold on the idea either to be honest. Upgrading gear is nice and all but I've had these same crappy shoulders for awhile now and nothing is dropping. I want to buy a new piece. Upgrading gear is fine but it's not rewarding as getting a new piece. Blizzard is all about the cock blocking or diverting reward this expansion.

No, they are all about rewarding effort instead of handing out gear on a silver platter. The fact that you even want to buy your gear shows that further...

[TheWerebison]

I think the system is great for me. I love doing dailys and running scenarios and dungeons. But not everyone does.

I dunno, this kind of causes a bit of a dilemma. If we made tabards that gave rep, we'd have Cataclysm again. Everyone would stay in the city, run dungeons, and that would be it. If dailys remain the only way to gain rep, then people who don't want to do dailys will not have access to VP gear.

Honestly, I think the BEST solution for everyone is to just not have gear that is hidden behind reputation. JP gear AND VP gear should be available at any point, as long as you have the points to purchase them. For people who enjoy doing dailys, the various factions will still have various recipes and schematics and, of course, the mounts and pets. People who are interested in those things will still do the dailys, and people who aren't won't need to. They won't have any right to complain about not having a Shado-pan tiger, any more than non-raiders have a right to complain about not having the mount from doing Heroic Dragon Soul achievements.

Leave the valor gains in the dailys, because getting those and upgrading gear is still important to gamers who don't raid.

[Glorious Leader]

Wow, so you always eat pizza for breakfast huh? I mean it tastes better than whatever sandwich you would otherwise eat, right?

No, despite what you belive the moving away from RNG is not what made WoW great. If that was true then either WoW wouldn't have any players left or there wouldn't be any RNG left, yet I see lots of it, even in Cata.

Yes they aren't as rewarding as in Cataclysm, THAT'S BECAUSE, Cataclysm gave you free gear for zero effort! It was TOO rewarding! It was a TERRIBLE system. This great gear you talk about from dailies, require a lot of VP, which means it takes a lot of EFFORT (take notice of that word because I don't think you know what it means), and it's still worse than raiding gear.

No because some days Pizza is less tasty then the other options. Dailies are never less tasty currently. I mean it's a bad analogy because if Pizza paid me out in the real work equivalent of rep (street cred?) I would probably always eat pizza.

Actually yes it is. The general point was that WoW became a much more progressive game over time by introducing things like gear currencly, like being more friendly for solo play, like looking for dungeon and looking for raid. It was moving away steadily from the purist mmo games until some dude decided to make dungeons hard and regressed the game and well we all know how that worked out.

Cataclysm was maybe a bit to rewarding but this system is to unrewarding. Dungeons suck balls in Mists and people are already leaving them and not doing them. I'm not sure why you think dailies take more effort then dungeons. I mean they really don't at all. Their probably easier and I can do them myself and not really on 4 other people. What they require is patience and dedication. Which is poor design.

[Deleted]

WoW is a game based on grinding. You farm raids for gear, only to be able to farm the next raid for new gear, to be able to farm the exact same raid on heroic difficulty for new gear to.... you get the point. Whining about having to do 7 dailes everyday, to optimize your chances to progress, is just plain stupid. There's a reason why guilds have different status in forms of raiding. If you don't want to do the dailies, join a guild thats not an extremely hardcore one, and the problem is solved.
I really just see this whine as you being a lootwhore. If you have the time to be in a hardcore raiding guild, you should have the 20 minutes a day to do dailies.

[Deleted]

Yuup. And if and when they nerf all this bs into the ground a month or so from now invalidating all that "hard work" what do you think will happen? this system should have never left beta like it was

Your hard effort will always only keep you up to date, if you stop putting in effort, you will stop being rewarded, and left behind. It's a lot like when companies sell products, you can buy a new game at the release day when it's more expensive, or you can wait five years and buy it a lot cheaper. The reason people actually buy it at release day is because playing it when it's new is a reward of itself.

[Glorious Leader]

No, they are all about rewarding effort instead of handing out gear on a silver platter. The fact that you even want to buy your gear shows that further...

What effort? complete 10 quests every day? Are you nuts? Their so easy... it's almost no effort. I'm done them in like 30 minutes and I'm back to org afk.

[MoanaLisa]

It's impossible to really know how popular or unpopular dailies actually are by reading forums.

Take this thread. We're up to something like 410+ posts in this thread and nearly 70 of them are from one person. And there was voluminous posting in other threads on the same topic by a very few people, many of them the same as in this one.

It's not to call anyone out that I bring this up because I enjoy a good conversation or argument as much as anyone. But with that said, the same 100 people posting constantly about how much they hate dailies (or any other topic) is not the same thing as everyone hating dailies.

As has been pointed out to the extent that it really doesn't need to be said again, dailies are optional but provide nice perks if you're persistent. No one is forced to do them and believing that you are is letting the game play you instead of vice versa.

[Glorious Leader]

Your hard effort will always only keep you up to date, if you stop putting in effort, you will stop being rewarded, and left behind. It's a lot like when companies sell products, you can buy a new game at the release day when it's more expensive, or you can wait five years and buy it a lot cheaper. The reason people actually buy it at release day is because playing it when it's new is a reward of itself.

Hard effort are you kidding me? Have you ever actually had ajob? Look their gonna nerf this shoot sooner rather than later hopefully and when they do people will bitch because their effort that they put into getting this stuff has been robbed. Their uniqueness because they could use the virtual sweat of their brow to do quests every day will be meaningless because every joe shmuck will have that same shit. It happened in ttbc with the heroic keys. It's been happening every expansion as far back as I can tell. Blzzard made this game progressively better and better for a broader segment of the population.

[Deleted]

No because some days Pizza is less tasty then the other options. Dailies are ever less tasty currently. I mean it's a bad analogy because if Pizza paid me out in the real work equivalent of rep (street cred?) I would probably always eat pizza.

Actually yes it is. The general point was that WoW became a much more progressive game over time by introducing things like gear currencly, like being more friendly for solo play, like looking for dungeon and looking for raid. It was moving away steadily from the purist mmo games until some dude decided to make dungeons hard and regressed the game and well we all know how that worked out.

Cataclysm was maybe a bit to rewarding but this system is to unrewarding. Dungeons suck balls in Mists and people are already leaving them and not doing them. I'm not sure why you think dailies take more effort then dungeons. I mean they really don't at all. Their probably easier and I can do them myself and not really on 4 other people. What they require is patience and dedication. Which is poor design.

People aren't doing heroic dungeons? Alright that's why the queue is unchanged, if anything shorter. Not rewarding enough? Ok, so what other than getting you a full new set of gear making you fully prepared for raids do you want? I mean heroics give more than that ,but let's just focus on the gear for now. What exactly do you think heroics are? They are a stepping stone into raiding, NOTHING ELSE.

[TequilaFlavor]

I feel like I'm facing a future of perpetual daily quest grinds. Yeah, you can opt not to do it, but everything is dependent on the damned things. It's bad enough getting to revered/exalted with a bunch of them when dailies are the only way to gain rep, it'll take weeks and weeks, but it seems I'll have to keep doing them forever if I want fortune charms.

Who will ever want to be a raider without getting the most out of it? To most players, raiding without their weekly quota of charms is out of the question. It certainly would taint the incentive for me, knowing I'm missing out on probably several raid drops per month just because I'm not grinding freakin' dailies. I expect most guilds will require that their members keep topped up on charms -- why bring a member who isn't getting the most out of the raid if you could bring someone who gets the extra upgrades and thus improves progression? You wouldn't bring someone who doesn't enchant his gear.

The problem is that these dailies are terrible. It's not only a grind, it's an exercise in frustration to try and do the same quest as fifty other players. It's a mob-tagging, ninja-clicking competition. I don't know how I'd be able to do that forever with no end in sight, every day, just so I don't miss out on gear upgrades from an entirely unrelated part of the game.

I think we'll need alternative ways to get these charms. (bolded/underlined because nobody seemed to comprehend that part and selectively read that I want charms for free without doing anything) They should be obtainable with VP and/or CP. I don't feel like I should have to do 45 dailies a week every week for the rest of the time I play WoW. It's just as reasonable to expect people to do dungeons or PvP -- those activities are certainly no less related to the act of raiding, and I expect most players would be a little more enthusiastic about those things than dailies. Whatever the case, I feel like alternatives will be necessary. I certainly will not be doing 45 dailies every week - and more if I want to raid with alts as well - forever. The "for as long as I play WoW" part might just get cut very short if that's how it has to be.

Remember what basically everybody complained about during Cata ?

"I just fly laps in OG/SW until my queue pops.", "I never get to go out into the world.", "I just stare at the walls in OG/SW all day"., "There is no incentive to go out into the world."

Blizzard's ways to get people out into the world are a) Exploration and b) Dailies (and because every kind of exploration can be cheesed/rushed with guides, only the latter will keep people out in the world for longer).

The charms are the additional incentive neccessarily to make the dailies relevant at all (after you hit certain reputation benchmarks) and thus are essential to get to that goal, as was removing getting reputation from tabards.

With better and better gear, it will be much, much faster to just do 5-mans + raids + LFR + the occasional scenario to hit your weekly valor cap.

So Blizz had to add this exclusive incentive to dailies, otherwise their plan to get people out in the world will fail within a few weeks.

And remember: You need 45 dailies PER WEEK to get your lucky charms, thats less than 7 (!) dailies a day.

With any kind of DPS specc, you will get this done in 20 minutes a day, tops, rather 10-15 minutes, and this is with current blue gear with some purple dots - it will get faster and faster the more you get used to the dailies and the better gear you have.

And really, 20 min. a day is too much for you ? Even though you can just do some more dailies and save the lesser charms for weeks when you don't have enough time ?

[Lethora]

The expansion has been out for two weeks. Assuming at least two days to get to 90 (which is optimistic), you've had at most 12 days to do daily quests. At 2 charms per quest and 6 coins (540 charms) plus 516 loose charms, you claim to have obtained roughly 525 daily quests worth of charms. That's over 40 daily quests per day. There's only a total of 48 daily quests in MoP, many of which require various reputation levels to unlock, so you didn't even have 40 daily quests available from the start. That's a best-case scenario. I don't need to express my skepticism any further.

Your math is a bit off. You get 3 charms per turn-in, so that guy have turned in his quest only 2 times, resulting in far less charms spent. 6 coins are 180 lesser charms, not 540.
I have turned-in elder charms 3 times and I have 3 stacks of 180 charms in my bank. Where does that put me? Oh, right, 3x90+x180=810 charms. I got level 90 on 25th. Two weeks passed. That's roughly 58 charms/day. Or ~30 quests. Does it still sound unrealistic to you?

[snegro]

You're one of those who want all the gear without putting time and effort into it, I see.

I'd rather put in more effort doing something enjoyable instead of shitty dailies. Quests suck. Give me my tabards.

[Glorious Leader]

People aren't doing heroic dungeons? Alright that's why the queue is unchanged, if anything shorter. Not rewarding enough? Ok, so what other than getting you a full new set of gear making you fully prepared for raids do you want? I mean heroics give more than that ,but let's just focus on the gear for now. What exactly do you think heroics are? They are a stepping stone into raiding, NOTHING ELSE.

yea of course people have stopped. Theirs no value in them anymore since the rewards are so poor. In fact people not only just stop queing they stop running the entire dungeon. Hell they also ninja everything in sight. JP gear has never been a stepping stone to raiding, you don't even need it now to raid. Same for heroic gear I can raid in blues and greens and have been able to since Karazhan. JP gear was about rewarding people who've ran dungeons X amount of times but have gotten the shaft because RNG is bullshit. Now the argument is what X should be.

[Deleted]

Hard effort are you kidding me? Have you ever actually had ajob? Look their gonna nerf this shoot sooner rather than later hopefully and when they do people will bitch because their effort that they put into getting this stuff has been robbed. Their uniqueness because they could use the virtual sweat of their brow to do quests every day will be meaningless because every joe shmuck will have that same shit. It happened in ttbc with the heroic keys. It's been happening every expansion as far back as I can tell. Blzzard made this game progressively better and better for a broader segment of the population.

Yes I have had a job, and it wasn't nearly as hard as people whine it out to be. Different jobs have different difficulty though, I'm well aware, no need to remind me. Just saying "ever had a job?" doesn't make any sense because like everything else, there are different kinds of it, some are easy, some are hard.

They are going to nerf it over time, like they always have, because that's what they do. When gear becomes less relevant to the current time-frame, and new gear is about to be released, they will nerf effort ti takes to get the outdated gear.

And ok, you say it doesn't require any effort to get revered, to get all the VP for the VP gear? Then what the hell are you whining about? Go and get it!

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:50 AM ----------

yea of course people have stopped. Theirs no value in them anymore since the rewards are so poor. In fact people not only just stop queing they stop running the entire dungeon. Hell they also ninja everything in sight. JP gear has never been a stepping stone to raiding, you don't even need it now to raid. Same for heroic gear I can raid in blues and greens and have been able to since Karazhan. JP gear was about rewarding people who've ran dungeons X amount of times but have gotten the shaft because RNG is bullshit. Now the argument is what X should be.

If HC gear isn't rewarding enough for you to get it then I don't even know what you want... Tell me, please enlighten me what the hell you expect from the stepping stone that heroics is. Raid gear? You get that in raids. You want another set of gear between HC's and raiding, and let JP give HC gear and HC give... what? Epic 470 gear?

[Glorious Leader]

Remember what basically everybody complained about during Cata ?

"I just fly laps in OG/SW until my queue pops.", "I never get to go out into the world.", "I just stare at the walls in OG/SW all day"., "There is no incentive to go out into the world."


And really, 20 min. a day is too much for you ? Even though you can just do some more dailies and save the lesser charms for weeks when you don't have enough time ?

The funny part is you can say both in the same thread and not recognize the problem. Dailies will get you out of the world for 20 minutes a day. They won't keep you there and if your only spending two minutes then your just zerging the quest area and getting it done asap. For that part we had to have dungeon rewards nerfed to the ground.

[Glorious Leader]

Yes I have had a job, and it wasn't nearly as hard as people whine it out to be. Different jobs have different difficulty though, I'm well aware, no need to remind me. Just saying "ever had a job?" doesn't make any sense because like everything else, there are different kinds of it, some are easy, some are hard.

They are going to nerf it over time, like they always have, because that's what they do. When gear becomes less relevant to the current time-frame, and new gear is about to be released, they will nerf effort ti takes to get the outdated gear.

And ok, you say it doesn't require any effort to get revered, to get all the VP for the VP gear? Then what the hell are you whining about? Go and get it!

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:50 AM ----------


If HC gear isn't rewarding enough for you to get it then I don't even know what you want... Tell me, please enlighten me what the hell you expect from the stepping stone that heroics is. Raid gear? You get that in raids. You want another set of gear between HC's and raiding, and let JP give HC gear and HC give... what? Epic 470 gear?

I want JP gear equivelant to what I got in the dungeons. I want JP gear to combat rng by giving me a reward equal to what I got in the dungeon. Not giving me 458 shoulders so that I still have to go back and run the dungeon for the shoulders anyway. Or better gains on justice and vp inside the dungeon. Or rep tabards. ANYTHING to make the dungeon experience a tad bit more rewarding than it is now.

Effort is different from tedium. Effort implies challenge. Tedium implies repetition. Currently effort in your case implies that I should stomach the tedium of dailies because well that's just the sweat of my virtual brow. The only thing MORE tedious than dailies is currently dungeons because they offer no challenge and still no rewards. Yes yes challenge modes I know I know. I'l get right on that skip. Doesn't fix heroics and doesn't fix character progression at all.

[Deleted]

The funny part is you can say both in the same thread and not recognize the problem. Dailies will get you out of the world for 20 minutes a day. They won't keep you there and if your only spending two minutes then your just zerging the quest area and getting it done asap. For that part we had to have dungeon rewards nerfed to the ground.

They aren't nerfed to the ground, they are where they are supposed to be! >.<

Man Cataclysm messed people up more than I thought... People like you seem so used to being spoon-fed gear for zero effort...

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:53 AM ----------

I want JP gear equivelant to what I got in the dungeons. I want JP gear to combat rng by giving me a reward equal to what I got in the dungeon. Not giving me 458 shoulders so that I still have to go back and run the dungeon for the shoulders anyway. Or better gains on justice and vp inside the dungeon. Or rep tabards. ANYTHING to make the dungeon experience a tad bit more rewarding than it is now.

JP gear is 458, HC gear is 463. The difference is 5 item level, and you whine, really?...