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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It actually is Blizzards fault. They know people act like this. They've known it years now. They've reinforced and rewarded this behavior for years. Why they think turn around and say not so much and then not expect people to be pissed is retarded. Frankly I don't see the problem with the older system aside from it being to much fun.
    Do not misunderstand me I think it is a valid point of view, just not the only one. They simply wanted to give more options to gear up, I do not personally see really a problem with it. There's still option to do it the old way (heroic -> raids) apart form the valor stuff that probably though will be on par with LFR (don't know for certain). But again the raids in normal are probably tuned for blue gear anyway so this does not makes reputations purple really mandatory if not in our own minds.

    Apart from that as long as we do not have the data gathered by Blizzard metrics on the game we don't really know what's going on so and can't really judge if design is good/bad this is more like idle, but interesting, conversation.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Well since you apparently feel it's your right to tell people what they can and can't do in the game I think turnabout is only fair play. If it's too easy the too bad find another game. DS was super easy and I hope LFR in mists is that same difficulty. If you don't like it well then leave. If your that good your obviously to good for warcraft...
    Problem with that argument is that Blizzard supports my thoughts on that, or rather I support Blizzard. So why don't I turn it around and tell you to find another game if it's such a chore, such a job to do 6 dailies, so hard to do some heroics to get 463 gear? Guess what, it isn't. It's nowhere near a job, and I would know since I have actually worked. If you're that bad, you're obviously too bad for warcraft.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Problem with that argument is that Blizzard supports my thoughts on that, or rather I support Blizzard. So why don't I turn it around and tell you to find another game if it's such a chore, such a job to do 6 dailies, so hard to do some heroics to get 463 gear? Guess what, it isn't. It's nowhere near a job, and I would know since I have actually worked. If you're that bad, you're obviously too bad for warcraft.
    No not really. Blizzards thoughts on this matter reflect more or less what the community wants. Remember how everyone screamed for harder heroics in cata. Yea what happened? The difference is what I'm asking for doesn't prevent people who like doing dailies from doing dailies. Is is merely that they should make content for all players. I don't want to stop you from having a challenge. I hope they provide that for you. I hope they provide stuff for other people to. Like the EASY lfr. Somehow though that ruins the experience for you and I don't particularly quite get it.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 10:19 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #484
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    No not really. Blizzards thoughts on this matter reflect more or less what the community wants. Remember how everyone screamed for harder heroics in cata. Yea what happened? The difference is what I'm asking for doesn't prevent people who like doing dailies from doing dailies. Is is merely that they should make content for all players. I don't want to stop you from having a challenge. I hope they provide that for you. I hope they provide stuff for other people to. Like the EASY lfr.
    Did the stacking debuff in DS affect LFR? No it didn't. You know why? Because LFR was easy enough as it was. And we're not talking about early cata! We are talking about 4.3 when LFR was released!

    Edit:
    I never said it ruined the experience for me, I said that there is no point in making an encounter that can be soloed because the other 24 people might be afk. If they really want to raid, they should be prepared for potential wipes, comes with the territory. It's not too hard, it's that they don't try hard enough. You can't make the encounter any easier than they currently are while still claiming they are raid encounters.
    Last edited by mmoce2fa46bcbe; 2012-10-10 at 10:23 AM.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Did the stacking debuff in DS affect LFR? No it didn't. You know why? Because LFR was easy enough as it was. And we're not talking about early cata! We are talking about 4.3 when LFR was released!
    Sure and as I've said all along if the current iteration of LFR is as easy as DS then were good. I have no problem with that. You do however. I'm not sure why you think you can use DS as an example but then in that other post you made rail about how shitty DS was.

    My point remains. Guys like you screamed it was to easy, they made it harder, it didn't work out, Blizzard responded. Now guys like you are screaming the same shit over again and just like in early cata theyll release a blog detailing why they did what they did and then things will change.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 10:25 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #486
    5.1 should have more dailies iirc so the variety will increase even more. When it comes down to doing dailies for just the coins there will be a lot of options. I for one will for example definitely skip that stupid daily in the Vale where you kill 30 spirits or kill 4 of those giant beetles in DW. I'll just do something for anglers or cloud serpent or something instead for coins.

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Sure and as I've said all along if the current iteration of LFR is as easy as DS then were good. I have no problem with that. You do however. I'm not sure why you think you can use DS as an example but then in that other post you made rail about how shitty DS was.

    My point remains. Guys like you screamed it was to easy, they made it harder, it didn't work out, Blizzard responded. Now guys like you are screaming the same shit over again and just like in early cata theyll release a blog detailing why they did what they did and then things will change.
    The only point they made it harder was early cata, which they reverted right afterwards. The reason I'm bringing up DS is because, DS is the only raid ever before MoP that has ever had a LFR. You claim it was too hard for people, both I and Blizzard disagree. I'm not screaming for anything to become harder, I'm saying that it's impossible to make LFR any easier while keeping it as a raid. If it's any easier then as I said before, you might as well solo it because the rest 24 might be afk.

  8. #488
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Sure and as I've said all along if the current iteration of LFR is as easy as DS then were good. I have no problem with that. You do however. I'm not sure why you think you can use DS as an example but then in that other post you made rail about how shitty DS was.

    My point remains. Guys like you screamed it was to easy, they made it harder, it didn't work out, Blizzard responded. Now guys like you are screaming the same shit over again and just like in early cata theyll release a blog detailing why they did what they did and then things will change.
    I'm still unsure if we agree on stuff or we disagree on stuff. o_o
    Seems we share some pov at least

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    The only point they made it harder was early cata, which they reverted right afterwards. The reason I'm bringing up DS is because, DS is the only raid ever before MoP that has ever had a LFR. You claim it was too hard for people, both I and Blizzard disagree.
    I do not remember if he said it was too hard. Didn't he said that it was kinda the right difficulty in a previous post? (don't want to go back and look for it I'm lazy)

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    The only point they made it harder was early cata, which they reverted right afterwards. The reason I'm bringing up DS is because, DS is the only raid ever before MoP that has ever had a LFR. You claim it was too hard for people, both I and Blizzard disagree.
    I don't claim it was to hard. I claimed it was just right. I said people still died on it, so if Blizzard has made it any harder than that it's probably pretty stupid. Just like people still died in wrath heroics. Then they made them harder in cataclysm. Then they made them EVEN EASIER in mists.

    I'm not sure how you can infer you think you know the mind of Blizzard just from the fact they didn't add that stacking buff but okay you've got some zen master telepathic direct line to them. Maybe you can tell me what the future is as well?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 10:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    I'm still unsure if we agree on stuff or we disagree on stuff. o_o
    Seems we share some pov at least

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:26 AM ----------



    I do not remember if he said it was too hard. Didn't he said that it was kinda the right difficulty in a previous post? (don't want to go back and look for it I'm lazy)
    Allow me to make it CRYSTAL clear. If LFR is is as easy as DS we are fine. If it's to much harder then DS then that system is stupid, it works against the principle that lfr is meant for people can't raid on the regular to see content and be nerfed into the ground in a short amount of time.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  10. #490
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    I do not remember if he said it was too hard. Didn't he said that it was kinda the right difficulty in a previous post? (don't want to go back and look for it I'm lazy)
    He said that LFR was too hard since people wipe there, he thinks it should be possible to just smash through it on the first try with a group of 25 randoms.

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    He said that LFR was too hard since people wipe there, he thinks it should be possible to just smash through it on the first try with a group of 25 randoms.
    I said from what I've read Blizzard has made them harder. If you actually go back and read I said DS was the right tuning. Even though people still died in it. That's precisely the point though. DS being as easy as it was people still died. Making it any harder is a bad idea. If the tuning is what DS tuning was were fine. Your going nuts over nothing.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    I don't claim it was to hard. I claimed it was just right. I said people still died on it, so if Blizzard has made it any harder than that it's probably pretty stupid. Just like people still died in wrath heroics. Then they made them harder in cataclysm. Then they made them EVEN EASIER in mists.

    I'm not sure how you can infer you think you know the mind of Blizzard just from the fact they didn't add that stacking buff but okay you've got some zen master telepathic direct line to them. Maybe you can tell me what the future is as well?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 10:28 AM ----------



    Allow me to make it CRYSTAL clear. If LFR is is as easy as DS we are fine. If it's to much harder then DS then that system is stupid, it works against the principle that lfr is meant for people can't raid on the regular to see content and be nerfed into the ground in a short amount of time.
    I'm sure LFR is the same difficulty as DS, the reason you heard people wipe there is because they do, because they don't know the fight yet! I said this earlier and you still claimed they had to make it easier.

    People wiped lots in DS as well, because they were terrible, doesn't mean they should make it any easier.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    I'm not sure about that.

    Just having to do the 1 cooking daily during Cataclysm for a couple of months made me into a quivering wreck. I can't stomach them. 45 a week is just.. no.

    It tells you something that people are already so burnt out on dailies after 1-2 weeks after the expansion. What's it going to be like after a few months, and when the next content patch is just... more dailies?!
    Yea I had the exact same thing I actually did them the first 2 weeks and never again same with the JC dailies DM, the tournament dailies in icecrown and even firelands I just went trough it once for the stuff I wanted and never went back there I just cant stomach and being forced doing it everyday for x amount of months to have an optimal rep token gain. And fun part is right now in MOP if you like being self sustaining (proffwise) you need to do it on alts as well because of the rep requirements and those *roosterblocking daily gating* you know what I mean :> on top of that everything is soulbound so I cant even ship my golden lotus rep thingies of to my alt either. Don't even get me started on harmonies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    It is actually really fair that someone who spends more time in the game gets rewarded more.
    that's a rather black and white way to put it care to explain this to me then:

    take Person A lets call him Ash the pet battle master. This person is a extreme casual person logs maybe 1-2 hours a day doing some dailies and some pet battling before logging of again. hes weekly hours are about 14 hours give or take.

    Now take person B lets call him Ragnarok the raid destroyer and rep hoarder. This person works 8 hours a day, barely has 15-30 mins when he gets home to get raid ready. raids about 4 days a week (3 of them during weekdays) after raid he needs pretty much log of again to go to bed so he cant do dailies during those 3 days. This person spends about 4-5 hours online every day with peaks of 8 hours in the weekends this totals about 36 hours minimum per week give or take.

    Yet with the direction Blizzard it taking now since the Wrath and the invasion of dailies. Person A will cap the reps and have access to the gear and rewards weeks before person B does.

    Now go back to your statement you say that people who spend more time in game should be rewarded more and get rewarded faster then people who dont, yet they dont as a matter of fact person B gets punished in a way and is forced to choose with this current setup. In vanilla and TBC person B would have indeed be rewarded more but nowadays this is not really the case anymore and person A will reap the rewards with ease and laughs his damn ass off.

    your logic doesn't really apply anymore to nowadays WoW.

    I think a lot of the whine we hear isn't about the fact that dailies take long or are hard or the need to farm the charms. The point is that in a way you are forced to do them everyday even if it only takes an hour there is no way to skip them during the week and then being able to catch up in the weekends or during a vacation when you have more time to spare because you absolutely cant that's the point.
    Not to mention it makes it even more tedious for alts because your locked in that same dailies lockout. The older rep farms provided you a choice . Do a little bit everyday (think person A) or if you had time in the weekends (Person B) skip them during the week and during weekends shut your brain out, grab a bag of ships, some cold beers, jack up the music and grind your harts content out for 6 hours to catch up what you missed during the week.

    A lot of people have already noted its starting to look like a job even if its just a 30-1h job but its a job nonetheless.

    the easiest solution would have been to add a tiny bit of rep to the respective mobs (like the black prince rep currently or fulborg rep back in old vanilla) or to add a repeatable quest then people at least have an alternative if they want to catch up.

    Its about having a choice that fits to your play style in combination with your real life limitations.
    Its the same reason why people are upset about the celestial/shadopan rep gating behind the golden lotus. This is a serious alt killer for most of them.

    take me for example i have an alt that technically only needs celestials and an other alt that only needs shadopan the mere thought I have to grind out 3 weeks of golden lotus dailies for both of them to be even able to start working on what i want for my alts is brainkilling and the fun part is the only reason it took me 2 weeks hitting revered now on my main with golden lotus is because I had a 2 week vacation if I dint had that then it would have taken me twice as long because I am in a similar boat as person B which I described earlier.

    It is obviously clear that blizzard is desperately trying to stretch there content to last longer by doing this not to mention there basically setting your pace in spoon feeding what your allowed to do and to achieve on a daily base. The fact that people cant even see this is hilarious tbh.

    Gating or caps for some tings are fine I am not debating that and I have no problems with valor caps or justice caps since they provide gear and soon the ability to upgrade gear. but on daily playtime content is just ridicules its like blizzard it trying to say here are your dailies spend 15 mins in this zone and then lol you wont get anything else so GTFO out of here. that is how it feels atm you finish the klaxxi dailies for example and then I dont even go back in to that zone again for the day same with the other hubs as well. Its a wonder they dint put caps on the amount of pat battles your allowed to have or amount of pets your allowed to capture a day -_-.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    People wiped lots in DS as well, because they were terrible, doesn't mean they should make it any easier.
    ore because of too many trolls :/
    Oh.. wall 'o text, will need a while to read it all over.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I'm sure LFR is the same difficulty as DS, the reason you heard people wipe there is because they do, because they don't know the fight yet! I said this earlier and you still claimed they had to make it easier.

    People wiped lots in DS as well, because they were terrible, doesn't mean they should make it any easier.
    Ehh yes and no. The only thing I remember wiping on regularly was the Madness. Sometimes on spine. People wouldn't single target shit down. The rest of DS was virtually tactic free and you could even ignore the mechanics that did exist. I remember all the groups didn't even bother to kill the oozes on the ooze guy. We just zerged him down. IF current lfr is that tuned hell yea. If it's that tuned then were good.

    That's also not what i've been reading about LFR. I've been hearing it's actually harder and requires co-ordination which is stupid honestly. DS lfr required next to none. Requiring co-ordination from 25 people thrown together is asking a bit much. I mean should these random 25 people get on a vent as well?
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 10:35 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #496
    It will take you, on average, about 20 minutes a day to do enough dailies to get your 90 Charms for the weekly.
    When in doubt, simply ask yourself: "What would Garrosh do?"

    #wwgd

  17. #497
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Ehh yes and no. The only thing I remember wiping on regularly was the Madness. People wouldn't single target shit down. The rest of DS was virtually tactic free and you could even ignore the mechanics that did exist. I remember all the groups didn't even bother to kill the oozes on the ooze guy. We just burst him done. IF current lfr is that tuned hell yea.
    I didn't do DS LFR much since it was boring as hell, the runs I was in though we had wipes on every boss at the beginning. When I tried once again a couple of weeks later, I could literally sit down and afk, go do something else, and the boss would still go down. Heard that later on it got worse though because they were carried by raiders who wanted extra loot, and when they had what they wanted it was only the terrible people left so the wipes began again. If they can't even handle something that easy, they don't deserve neither content nor loot.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    I didn't do DS LFR much since it was boring as hell, the runs I was in though we had wipes on every boss at the beginning. When I tried once again a couple of weeks later, I could literally sit down and afk, go do something else, and the boss would still go down. Heard that later on it got worse though because they were carried by raiders who wanted extra loot, and when they had what they wanted it was only the terrible people left so the wipes began again. If they can't even handle something that easy, they don't deserve neither content nor loot.
    Alright well were in agreement about something. DS LFR is the proper tuning. I'll have to try and get in LFR this week to see if it's the same. Should be itneresting.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  19. #499
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Malackai View Post
    that's a rather black and white way to put it care to explain this to me then:

    take Person A lets call him Ash the pet battle master. This person is a extreme casual person logs maybe 1-2 hours a day doing some dailies and some pet battling before logging of again. hes weekly hours are about 14 hours give or take.

    Now take person B lets call him Ragnarok the raid destroyer and rep hoarder. This person works 8 hours a day, barely has 15-30 mins when he gets home to get raid ready. raids about 4 days a week (3 of them during weekdays) after raid he needs pretty much log of again to go to bed so he cant do dailies during those 3 days. This person spends about 4-5 hours online every day with peaks of 8 hours in the weekends this totals about 36 hours minimum per week give or take.

    Yet with the direction Blizzard it taking now since the Wrath and the invasion of dailies. Person A will cap the reps and have access to the gear and rewards weeks before person B does..
    While I see your point you have to take into account that what person A will ever see are factions reward (and maybe some LFG). While person B while slowing down on the reputations will have access to a wider range of gear and/or different rewards through the raids he does 4 times a week.

    It is a trade off.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    It's nowhere near a job, and I would know since I have actually worked.
    So you don't have a job at the moment?
    How much time do spend in wow?
    What kind of job did you have, if I may ask?
    Last edited by Synstir; 2012-10-10 at 10:48 AM.

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