Let's say that, as a compromise between our respective pov, I would take away the gear from the reputations, and boost slightly the Valor obtained through dungeons/scenarios!
---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:44 AM ----------
It's such a fucking ridiculous system. Before I would afk in org because i was bored. Now I afk in org because I'm bored because the two groups of dailies I can do that potentially will lead me to progression are finished. Christ the dungeon grind lasted longer than this and it wasn't as transparent. This is sooo fucking obvious. Everything else is genuinely optional, even talents. They could have say given pvp players an honor weapon but they KNOW what will happen. Soooooo why do daily quests have such a good reward? IT'S SOOOOOO OBVIOUS.... and it's so transparent.
Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-10-10 at 12:12 PM.
"The main problem with that strategy is that we don't really have any idea what most players want." - GC
That is a good model how exactly?
the daily grind is awful.
I know you dont HAVE to do it, but in reality you do. You fall behind. so in addition to a raiding schedule you are effectively forced to grind several hours on dailies every day....its worse than a job, and it will lead to burn out very very quickly.
I dont mind dailies as a option, but let us also use tabbards, put a daily rep limit if you want Bliz, but dont force me to do dailies, I wont stick around for long if you do as I am struggling to work up the enthusiasm.
Wow is probably the last MMO which feels it should dictate how a player spends their play time. All other MMOs offer players choice in how they obtain stuff.
How is doing the same quest over and over and over again `effort`? noone has ever enjoyed running dailys to gear, its the most dull, boring, time consuming method of gearing up possible, theres not even any difficulty once youve done the quests once through you know what to do so wheres the challenge?
Blizzard need to change this whole system, gear should not be reliant on running dailys to achieve ive never seen anything so dull in this game in a long time, ive just hit 89 on my character and im actully dreading 90 because I know ill want to gear up and I know the only way to do that is dailys and I bloody hate dailys!
I played aion for almost 2 years that was a game that had grind.
it took over around 200mil exp to level the last level back then and you only had a choice of 1-3 repeatables that had you killing about 20-40 mobs per turn in and it barely gave 500k back then + the amount of running you had to do. One turn in took about 20 mins if you where lucky with the drops but in worse case scenario it could take 45 mins even for one turn in! or you could run a dungeon that gave maybe 100k exp a run that took over an hour to complete. But here comes the crux you could pace the speed your self!!
cant log in for a day no worries I catch up in the weekend by doing some extra turn ins.
Trust me wow is not grindy.
even back in tbc it was not grindy at all.
You can see today's wow(Wrath, cata, Mop) like school with a teacher that gives homework every day and you have to turn it before the next one or you miss grades. But the moment you get the home work done and you have time to spare, you decide to ask the teacher for the homework for the next day because you know the next day you have lots of things to do and wont have much time for your homework, so you walk up to the teacher turn in your home work and ask for the next set of work and the teacher laughs at you puts up a troll face and says NO comeback tomorrow. Now imagine this happening multiple times a week in the end the student either end up falling asleep during class because he will still complete the homework but by going to bed late or he has enough of it and falls so far behind to eff it and leaves school.
The vanilla wow and TBC wow where more like college where the teacher set a deadline for your project to be turned in(AKA hitting exalted = reward). however you are free to fill in when or how you do it and how much you do on a daily base or weekly base even.
Great example is winter sabre rep in the old vanilla days you had to kill mobs and collect items for quest turn ins you could either choice to do 5 turn ins a day like a casual or like a hardcore person do 35 turn ins in the weekend. this meant this meant both people still got their mounts in the same time span.
Now take the new wintersabre and ravasaur approach you need to raise it do some quests that reward a teeth a day? and you have to collect aprox 20 teeth to get the mount. now look back at the above example person A does the quest every day so he gets the mount in aprox 20 days however person B that would normally farm the same amount of rep in the weekend because he cant do it during the week cant possible catch up with this new structure and it now takes him minimum of 10 weeks weeks to get it.yet all weekends he is bored out of his socks because after doing the dailie he doesnt have anything else to do so he logs back out while in the old situation he would have spend more time online and set a goal for himself.
Calling this grind *chuckles* you people sure have a weird idea of dailies being grind *shakes head* its spoon feeding content nothing more.
you can do whatever you feel like doing: building houses, boats sailing around, diving for treasures, make forests if you feel like it herd cattle. siege castles (pvp) ect to much to name tbh.
only gating in there is your labour points(generates per x amount of minutes/hour regard if your online or offline) but then again a house or a ship or a guild castle isn't something you can build on one day right? :3
i dont really call that a fair trade off especially seeing a lot of people that defend the whole dailies thing with "if you spend more time and effort in game you should get more or faster rewards" when it comes to rep. Yet the guys (raiders) that actually plays more actively gets completely shafted in that department when it comes to rep rewards (which include ALL rewards nor only the gear).
Last edited by Malackai; 2012-10-10 at 01:00 PM.
My art page: http://malackai.deviantart.com/
---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 01:45 PM ----------
Last edited by aim; 2012-10-10 at 12:46 PM.
All i can say is as a person who is no longer playing WoW and quit doing dailies after doing therazane and wildhammer dailies. and Didnt start doing dailies again till molten front and stopped doing those immediately after getting the Title, and never did another daily again for the rest of 4.2-4.3.
From my PoV dailies used to be a way to get gold each day as well as gaining rep with certian factions that had some cool rewards and even raid gear. At the start of Cata each faction had at least 1 epic raid piece for someone and im ok with that. Doing dailies and/or dungeon runs was a way to get faction rep to get that epic piece your looking for.
To me it seems like what is going on is that the pieces of gear that you get for raiding in MoP from the factions just take more time than it did in Cata. In cata you had built rep with a few factions as you were questing in the zone. In MoP im guessing (since i dont play MoP) that the factions with the gear are only avalible to you at level 90? And that there are alot of factions you only gain rep with at level 90 so you dont have that head start getting honored or reveered as you are leveling but have to grind each facton from neutral at 90. Also not sure since i dont play if Shado-Pan requires another faction to be exalted just to get access to them, Which makes it even worse, but i dont know if thats accurate.(now that i think about it they are doing that currency system so im guessing you get coins from other factions and when you get enough you gain access to shado pan)
I would suggest blizz have the dailies give more rep per daily so it takes less time. Or open up Shado-Pan right at 90 so you dont have to grind other dailies before hand.
Also it seems because of server pops players doing dailies are having to take longer to do them because sooo many players are grinding the same dailies and its taking way longer. So they prolly also want to increase respawn rates of mobs and items and increase drop rates.
If you do the dailies everyday not counting hidden and extra bonuses. It takes about a month to get all to exalted. Not counting the Shado Pan and August Celestials. The golden lotus are the slowest rep gain so far. Hitting Revered tomorrow. This will be sped up soon too.
Some reputations are fast. Cloud serpent is under 2 weeks without eggs.
I enjoy the dailies. One of the strengths of wow. You dont have to do them. But they give nice rewards. People who dont raid get equal footing too.
Shado Pan, Klaxxi, Golden Lotus all lead to valor point gear and all combined they take more than 30 minutes, so I can't see you sitting in Org after 30 minutes with nothing to do.
And by my calculations, IF you're correct then you're saying 30 minutes of dailies followed by 13 random heroics a day is bad, but endless heroics a day is good.
"There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."
Golden lotus, which has two other factions locked behind it, starts at 90.
Order of the cloud serpent starts at 90/.
August celestials/shadow pan starts after golden lotus is at revered (gl starts at 90)
One can get some rep for shadow pan while leveling... but it isn't much.
As a raid leader I honestly wouldn't care if someone wasn't using charms, just like I wouldn't hold it against them for not spamming LFR for Sigil's once they no longer need the gear drops. Sure they aren't bringing their 100% absolute best in a sense, but I wouldn't tell a warlock to go retrain out of mining either. Unless you are in an unreasonably min-max or very hardcore guild you have to appreciate that people only have so much time on their hands.
Aside from that 3 CHANCES per week at random loot isn't really game breaking. I've used 5 charms so far and gotten nothing but a little gold for my trouble, and even if I did get something there is a decent chance it would be a duplicate of loot I already have.
Also, you can effectively buy up to 10 lesser charms per day with the tiller friendship cooking dailies, at least until you max those reps (22 hand ins if you don't get any rep by other means). Expensive certainly, but if you want the free roll without the effort there it is.
That may be fine in other games, but we all know they have failed to deliver actual content in a timely manner so it really is just a road block. I'm not sure why people marvel like this game is the 9th Wonder of the World.
"Oh wow, look at all the dailies I get to do. Oh man, when I finally max out Golden Lotus I get two more sets of dailies I get to do. And each one of these has one piece of gear I get at exalted, that is awesome! I can totally gear out my character over the next year from questing every day for 3 hours at a time like I'm leveling all over again. This is revolutionary!"
There are 300ish daily quests. You have to do about 6 of them every day. That is NOT a grind.
But the big thing is, if you were a normal player, you would have done a ton of them the first two weeks, which means you would be far ahead on your coins. Most players can take a break from dailies for a few weeks ALREADY. The other important thing.. in a few weeks, our gear will be much better, which will make those 6 dailies like cutting through butter.
really? 6 quests a day? too much?? You are obviously a new player and don´t remember Vanilla where you had to farm mats for 10 hours a week just to make pots to raid... but but.. 6 pots per day.. it is soooo much..