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  1. #181
    Mechagnome Clockworks's Avatar
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    Yeah this whole living steel is completely BS atm.

    I cannot even craft a shitty weapon chain or a belt buckle without it.
    Entry lvl epic's should not require them either, maybe some high en late mop super items can use them.

    Mining - Blacksmithing thats what 1 char should require to craft almost anny armor or weapon unless it is a super awesome late expax item, and that case living steel is still not the right way, a raid dropping item would be more correct then.

    I hope we get a change on this FAST, atm it is not aceptable at all.
    A band aid fix would be to let us beat those darn spirits into the trillium with our hammers ourself using Mining ofc.

    This is my point of view and i strongly dissagre with the need of Alchemy to do basik Blacksmithing stuff.

    FYI i have Mining / BS, Alch / Engi, JC maxed and ready, still not solving the basic problem.
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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    The complaint is Blacksmithing depends on mining and alchemy. JC and Engineering have the same issue. LW doesn't require skinning and another crafting profession.

    And all armor crafting professions need Blood Spirit to make the raid gear. That isn't what this topic is about.
    Stop complaining. Make friends.

    Come on folks... you have a guild, yes? IN game and/or RL friends who play? ASk your friendly alchemist to transmute your trillium. I've done it for a buddy who's making the Engi helm. ANd if, for some bizarre reason you have no one in your guild who's 600 alch or you don't have a guild, smelt trillium, sell bars, make money, use money to buy LS.

    The AH, like all trading functions, is a way for people who can offer A to get that to people who need A. You have trillium. Someone needs that. They give you gold for it. YOu use that gold to buy some LS that you need. Economics... it's the hawt old thing.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Stop complaining. Make friends.

    Come on folks... you have a guild, yes? IN game and/or RL friends who play? ASk your friendly alchemist to transmute your trillium. I've done it for a buddy who's making the Engi helm. ANd if, for some bizarre reason you have no one in your guild who's 600 alch or you don't have a guild, smelt trillium, sell bars, make money, use money to buy LS.

    The AH, like all trading functions, is a way for people who can offer A to get that to people who need A. You have trillium. Someone needs that. They give you gold for it. YOu use that gold to buy some LS that you need. Economics... it's the hawt old thing.
    Making friends dose not fix the problem stop trying to act like it dose.

    i should be able to make sockets on my gear like i have the last 2 xpac's without the need of another crafting profession.
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  4. #184
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pooutine View Post
    alchemy needs its resource from HERBING
    Leatherworking from SKINNING
    Jewcrafting from MINING
    Inscription from HERBING
    Blacksmithing from MINING AND ALCHEMY.

    Those are all gathering professions, Dude use your brain

    In fact, the only two professions that don't use a gathering are enchanting and tailoring. But ya wanna know why tailoring greens are so cheap to make? So you can de them yourself for chanting
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  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Blacksmithing from MINING AND ALCHEMY.

    Those are all gathering professions, Dude use your brain

    In fact, the only two professions that don't use a gathering are enchanting and tailoring. But ya wanna know why tailoring greens are so cheap to make? So you can de them yourself for chanting
    People who have alchemy max or more then 1 max level toon won't see it this way and disagree sadly.....people need to try to look at it from a blacksmiths point of view.
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  6. #186
    Pandaren Monk Anyankha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Making friends dose not fix the problem stop trying to act like it dose.
    ^This.
    I'm the said friend in my guild. I'm the one with no BS and 2 alchemists. And I cannot make everyone happy about my CDs. we all need the damn belt buckles/bars to craft our epics, and even with one of my alchemist being a xmute master, it doesn't help.

    @ clevin: the trillium bars are NOT the problem. I can xmute as many as I want. The problem is the living steel CD, and it being required for a stupid belt buckle.
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  7. #187
    High Overlord Pyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clockworks View Post
    Yeah this whole living steel is completely BS atm.

    I cannot even craft a shitty weapon chain or a belt buckle without it.
    Entry lvl epic's should not require them either, maybe some high en late mop super items can use them.

    Mining - Blacksmithing thats what 1 char should require to craft almost anny armor or weapon unless it is a super awesome late expax item, and that case living steel is still not the right way, a raid dropping item would be more correct then.

    I hope we get a change on this FAST, atm it is not aceptable at all.
    A band aid fix would be to let us beat those darn spirits into the trillium with our hammers ourself using Mining ofc.

    This is my point of view and i strongly dissagre with the need of Alchemy to do basik Blacksmithing stuff.

    FYI i have Mining / BS, Alch / Engi, JC maxed and ready, still not solving the basic problem.
    Aww, sucks to be you. Honestly though bro, to quote your VERY OWN signature,

    "The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place It will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me or nobody is going to hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard you hit, it is about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much can you take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

    TL;DR, Life isn't meant to be fair. If you want to make an omelette, you've gotta break some eggs. The grass is always greener on the other side. Blah blah blah. I'm sure you've heard it all before. Suck it up and deal with it. You've got Alchemy and BS already. Quit with the QQ and move on.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-19 at 10:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ucplayer View Post
    Just posted this on official forums.

    Hi everyone.

    Ok, so I got Blacksmithing to 600 another day and realized how bad this profession is at 600!
    I'm not the only one...I've read some threads about this aswell and people are complaining about this profession.

    The main problem is we are dependant on another profession (Alchemy).
    This shouldn't be the case since the minning should give us the most materials required.

    So at 600, we can't even make a Buckle because it requires living steel made by Alchemists. which has a 1day CD!
    The epic gear I can understand it requires more mats but a buckle, which is basicaly the only thing we can actual sell to have a small profit.
    Crafted PvP gear is kinda useless since is too easy to farm honor...
    Epic crafted gear way overpriced to even make & sell.


    Lets see some of the other professions:


    Alchemy: with herbalism can make flasks, elixyrs by gathering thier own herbs with herbalism. Transmute is optional.
    Leatherworking: with skinning can make armor kits, epic BoE gear just by killing animals and getting the Leather. No dependant on other profession.
    Jewelcrafting: Can get gems just by minning. The exception are the Meta gems.
    Inscription:Can make Glyphs just by gatheting herbs.
    Tailoring: Can craft blue and epic quality gear with just cloth which is free just like LW need to kill&skin monsters.

    Now Blacksmithing: Can't create Belt Buckles; can't create Epic quality gear because all of this needs LIVING STEEL which is made by ALCHEMISTS.
    So my point is, we BS are the only proffession that requires another proffession just to make a simple thing like a Buckle, so at 600 we can't have profit, period.
    We should be able to create living steel aswell, with 1 day CD or something and requiring trillium which is very rare!

    Leatherworkers and Tailors can create thier own materials for epic gear...why can't we???

    This is ridiculous!


    Another thing about the previous buckles:

    WotLK:
    Eternal Belt Buckle
    requires Saronite, Eternal Earth, Water, Shadow. All obtainable by minning.

    Cata:
    Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
    requires Elementium, Pyrium and Volatile Earth. All obtainable by minning.

    MoP:
    Living Steel Belt Buckle
    requires Living Steel. NOT OBTAINABLE BY MINNING. We can obtain the ore yes BUT we need a Alchemist to have a Cooldown ready so we can pay to have our mats turn into Living Steel which is ridiculous

    And by comparison some of our epic patterns require more mats than Leatherworker ones for example...
    This needs to be balanced!



    TL: DR
    Blacksmithing requires living steel to craft anything at 600, which is made by Alchemists ONLY.
    We can't even smelt Living Steel...
    We should be able to get our own mats to craft blue and epic gear like Leatherworkers and Tailors do!
    So we rely on another proffessions instead of our own gathering proffession.
    This needs to be fixed.
    Alch alt char is not the solution.
    Dude, even your TL;DR made me snooze.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    It's always been the intent to have some forms of dependency between professions. This helps create an economy of need vs. everyone being self-sufficient. For example, while you might need an alchemist, the alchemist is going to need a miner, etc. It's a big happy circle of life.
    But to make good stuff from their profession, i.e., flasks and trinkets, an alchemist doesn't need a miner at all. My alchemist buddy made the trinket the first day of the expansion, was maxed out the next day and isn't reliant on another profession to be at the best possible state for an instance or raid. All the alchemy recipes are drops or are learned by making pots to skill up with no other costs than that. If I want to do the same with my blacksmith, I have to mine everything I see because I'll need an alchemist to transmute for Trillium (currently sitting on 4 stacks of white trillium ore and 1 piece of black) to transmute to Living Steel, make sure to spend my Spirit of Harmony on patterns, and farm Kyparite to trade in for other patterns. Of course, people like to point out the bonus that blacksmiths get in the way of 2 free sockets, and once again, I have to find someone with another profession in order to make use of that. There is no other profession that gives you a bonus requiring another production profession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
    Are you people trolling or do you really just not get it? Allow me to paint you a picture.

    Characters in wow can pick up 2 primary professions. Crafting professions require raw materials in order to create items.

    Cloth -> dropped from humanoids
    Leather -> skinned from beasts via skinning
    Herbs -> gathered via herbalism
    Ore -> gathered via mining

    Tailors have an advantage in that they have a free profession slot since they can feed their crafting by just killing stuff.
    Leatherworkers generally pair with skinning if they want to gather their own raw mats
    Alchemists and Scribes feed their profs with Herbalism
    Blacksmiths, Engineers, and Jewelcrafters craft stuff by using ore which is mined, or using bars which are smelted with mining.

    Tailors have a 1/day craft to make Imperial silk. 40 cloth (loot)-> 8 Bolts of cloth (tailoring)-> 1 Imperial silk.
    Leatherworkers have a 1/day craft to make Magnificent hides. 50 exotic leather (skinning)-> 1 Magnificent hide
    Blacksmiths have to look for an alchemist to make Living Steel. 12 black and 12 white trillium ore (mining) -> 6 bars of trillium (mining) -> Living Steel transmute (Alchemy???)

    Why is it that Blacksmiths (also Engineers and Jewelcrafters) can't feed their crafting profession with the paired gathering profession (mining), but instead have to depend on a second character in order to be self sufficient?
    Exactly. My enchanter is maxed out in his profession. He doesn't have the good enchants yet because he's 85 and hasn't even been to Pandaria yet. I can feed him items I acquire on my blacksmith, either drops or crafting, and, Yay! I have mats! Again, the first day of the expansion, a tailoring friend of mine made his first Imperial Silk. He has the epic robe and gloves, and made a robe and gloves for my alchemist buddy.

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Stop complaining. Make friends.

    Come on folks... you have a guild, yes? IN game and/or RL friends who play? ASk your friendly alchemist to transmute your trillium. I've done it for a buddy who's making the Engi helm. ANd if, for some bizarre reason you have no one in your guild who's 600 alch or you don't have a guild, smelt trillium, sell bars, make money, use money to buy LS.

    The AH, like all trading functions, is a way for people who can offer A to get that to people who need A. You have trillium. Someone needs that. They give you gold for it. YOu use that gold to buy some LS that you need. Economics... it's the hawt old thing.
    This has nothing to do with being antisocial. I have someone making Living Steel for me every day. The point is that for a blacksmith to make good items with that profession (as well as not so good items) we need someone with another profession to craft things while most others don't have that.

  9. #189
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    And alchemists are dependant on miners to get the ore for the living steel.

    Its called synergy between professions.
    People take stupidity to a whole new level when they sit in front of a computer.

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  10. #190
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    @ Pyr Last I looked, this was a game, not life, and thus, can and should be fair.

    @ clevin No one needs Trillium, never mind how rare it is, all anyone needs is Ghost Iron and an alchemist.

  11. #191
    I get what the OP is saying, but Engineers need Livingsteel to make their goggles and the mounts and crap at 600. So how is that any different?

    I agree that Livingsteel should be available to both alchemists and miners via smelting, with whatever reagents and a 24h CD for each.

    In Vanilla, we had Arcanite which needed an alchemist. (And Enchanted Thorium which needed an enchanter IIRC)
    In BC, we had Khorium, which just needed a miner.
    In Wrath, Titansteel was made by miners, not alchemists, and was the bottleneck to most high end recipes since it had the 24hr CD, and I didn't see the world falling apart there.
    In Cata, Truegold went back to the domain of alchemists, but meh.

    In Mists, Livingsteel remains an alchemist thing. Having 3 xmute specced alchemists and only 2 dedicated miners, I am not particularly bothered, but I would like BOTH professions to be able to apply their 24h CD if needed.

  12. #192
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Stop complaining. Make friends.

    Come on folks... you have a guild, yes? IN game and/or RL friends who play? ASk your friendly alchemist to transmute your trillium. I've done it for a buddy who's making the Engi helm. ANd if, for some bizarre reason you have no one in your guild who's 600 alch or you don't have a guild, smelt trillium, sell bars, make money, use money to buy LS.

    The AH, like all trading functions, is a way for people who can offer A to get that to people who need A. You have trillium. Someone needs that. They give you gold for it. YOu use that gold to buy some LS that you need. Economics... it's the hawt old thing.
    Seriously, grow up. It is completely stupid that those professions require alchemy when LW/Tailoring/Alchemy/Inscription do not require another crafting profession to make their gear/flasks/etc. Don't try to make some stupid speech about economics when it only applies to a few professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkras View Post
    And alchemists are dependant on miners to get the ore for the living steel.

    Its called synergy between professions.
    And what exactly do you as an alchemist need living steel for other than to sell to someone who actually needs the living steel to craft?
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-10-19 at 07:21 PM.

  13. #193
    Pit Lord Drarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Seriously, grow up. It is completely stupid that those professions require alchemy when LW/Tailoring/Alchemy/Inscription do not require another crafting profession to make their gear/flasks/etc. Don't try to make some stupid speech about economics when it only applies to a few professions.
    I think the post you queoted has good points.
    I cant remember an expansion where my engineering havent been depending on Blacksmiths/alchemists to make some parts.
    Ive had to trade or have friends help for it. Its part of the game.

    Should neither call "Clevin" Stupid when he is giving fair tips, will just get you infracted, trust me - i got alot of infractions.

    Edit: Same with my Leatherworking and Tailoring, have in previous expansions needed help from other non gather professions to craft certain stuff.
    Last edited by Drarion; 2012-10-19 at 07:25 PM.

  14. #194
    The Lightbringer Agoonga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucplayer View Post

    Comments like "get a alt with alch" "buy off AH" are complete useless
    Your only other option I can think of is doing the monthly Darkmoon Faire quest.

  15. #195
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drarion View Post
    I think the post you queoted has good points.
    I cant remember an expansion where my engineering havent been depending on Blacksmiths/alchemists to make some parts.
    Ive had to trade or have friends help for it. Its part of the game.

    Should neither call "Clevin" Stupid when he is giving fair tips, will just get you infracted, trust me - i got alot of infractions.
    And you and him both miss the point. For blacksmiths, they require and alchemist to to make any of their good items. Weapon chain-requires living steel, Belt buckle-requires living steel, epic gear-also a ton of living steel

    Leatherworkers and tailors do not have the issue. If you want to require 1-3 profession to relay so heavily on another crafting profession you need to make it equal.

    Reread my post. At no point did I call him stupid.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-10-19 at 07:27 PM.

  16. #196
    It should also be pointed out that inorder for Alchemy to make said Living Steel they are dependent on Mining in addition to their regular Herbalist.
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  17. #197
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    It should also be pointed out that inorder for Alchemy to make said Living Steel they are dependent on Mining in addition to their regular Herbalist.
    To make a mat they don't even use.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    To make a mat they don't even use.
    How do you know? It is possible to be both an Alchemist and a Blacksmith. Especially on more then one character.
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  19. #199
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    How do you know? It is possible to be both an Alchemist and a Blacksmith. Especially on more then one character.
    I am stating that the alchemy profession does not use it. The whole point of this thread is the fact that blacksmithing(as well as JC and engineering) relies so heavily on Alchemy. Alchemy itself has no need for living steel.

  20. #200
    Pit Lord Drarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Reread my post. At no point did I call him stupid.
    Yes my bad, glanced that part.

    Still. Engineering still has the same "problem" as bs where i need living steel to make usefull stuff, i also need shitton of trillium from a miner.
    I also need Gems from a JC aswell as a Primal diamond ( for my engi head).

    Same in Cata, But with Truegold.

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