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  1. #201
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drarion View Post
    Yes my bad, glanced that part.

    Still. Engineering still has the same "problem" as bs where i need living steel to make usefull stuff, i also need shitton of trillium from a miner.
    I also need Gems from a JC aswell as a Primal diamond ( for my engi head).

    Same in Cata, But with Truegold.
    I have mentioned engineering and jc in multiple posts. I have 4 engineers. I know. I don't really mind alchemy having the ability to transmute living steel. I just think it should also be a mining cool down or something.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-10-19 at 07:43 PM.

  2. #202
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    Yes, you can be an alchemist and a blacksmith, but most crafters have a pairing gatherer they rely on to get their mats, BS relies not only on miner to get ores, but now also alchemist. LW and Tailor should have same requirements or BS should not. All the alchemists posting here need to drop alchemy and take up BS and then they might realize where we are coming from. Do not tell me it helps the economy when it is only 2 or 3 professions penalized in this manner. I do have an alchemist busy making Living Steel for my BS, but again, that is not the point!

    @ Kujako, can you point me to the Alchemy recipe that uses Living Steel please?

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I have mentioned engineering and jc in multiple posts. I have 4 engineers. I know. I don't really mind alchemy having the ability to transmute living steel. I just think it should be a mining cool down or something.
    Pretty much what I said.

    I have three 600/600 xmute specced alchemists. My panties are far from being bunched up over this system, but it feels kind of silly that one of my two 600/600 miners goes out, farms the ghost iron, then sends it to one of 3 alchemists to make ghost iron->trillium->living steel and somehow that is considered normal.

  4. #204
    The Lightbringer Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    Wait, people still level Blacksmithing?
    Apparently so... I mean it is all but useless nowadays...

  5. #205
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drarion View Post
    I also need Gems from a JC aswell as a Primal diamond ( for my engi head)..
    yes but that is your ENG only bonus that YOU get from ENG. You don't require an alch to make the sprokets you can sell to others do you? You don't need an alch to make the mines you can sell to others etc.

    None of us are arguing about living steel for the epic items we could make etc however BS's equivalent to Leatherworkers leg enchant, A scribes shoulder enchant, Alch flasks

    LW just need to pair to the skinning gathering proff to be autonomous for leg chant
    Scribe just need to pair to the herbalism gathering proff to be autonomous for shoulder chant
    Alch just need to pair with herbalism to make flasks
    and then BS need to be paired to Minning to get the mats and then as well Alch to X-mute it. Sure for higher end stuff I get it and agree (examples already given for previous expansions like arcanite) but for the "gear modification" things like leg chants shoudler chants etc all that should be needed is 1 crafting proff to be matched to it's proper gathering proff.

  6. #206
    The thing people are not getting is for blacksmiths to make belt buckles we need living steel so that means we need a main item from a crafting profession and it should not be that way.

    Ever since wrath the bonus to being a blacksmith is we can make belt buckles and socket our bracers and all by using the bars we smelt and now in MOP we can't.

    The arugment of alchemy needing mining/herb dose not work cause that is one crafting profession needing 2 gather professions.

    black smithing needs 1 gather and 1 crafting profession and thats the problems.

    blizzard needs to change the living steel requirement from belt buckles and make it something else.


    sorry but im not going to drop 1k into a belt buckle each time i change gems or upgrade when the gem already cost 500g+ when i should be able to make the belt buckle in the first place.....

    I am a blacksmith i can make weapons and armor but not belt buckles........
    Last edited by Jtbrig7390; 2012-10-19 at 08:03 PM.
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  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    blizzard needs to change the living steel requirement from belt buckles and make it something else.
    I think many could agree with this, but then what is the alternative?

    Thing is, if it didn't take a living steel, then you know it will require some arbitrary amount of trillium (probably between 2 and 6, but definitely more than 1). Trillium is faaaaar harder to farm outright than just collecting a bag full of ghost iron and transmuting it to trillium, possibly with extra procs in the process. And if that option is available to you, then making your own living steel is as well.

    And you KNOW if it didn't require a living steel, then it would have to include a Spirit or two, because they like to use Spirits as a bottleneck material if it doesn't outright require living steel.

    So, living steel being the mat used to make the belt buckle isn't really the issue, so much as you can't make living steel with smelting like you could make Titansteel with a miner in Wrath.

  8. #208
    Pit Lord Drarion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobyboucher View Post
    yes but that is your ENG only bonus that YOU get from ENG. You don't require an alch to make the sprokets you can sell to others do you? You don't need an alch to make the mines you can sell to others etc.
    So I dont need jc gems for my guns, scopes etc?

    Perhaps my previous post was minderstood, it was only the primal diamond of those i need for my engi head. agi version tho - dunno what the others need if they dont need worse stuff.

  9. #209
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    Engineers have it worse than Blacksmiths, on that I will agree, not only needing the Living Steel from an alchemist but many blue gems from a JC. And for those that think plate epic armour shoudl require living steel, my question is why? Leatherworker only needs his/her cooldown (and spirits) to make leather and mail epic armour. Tailor only needs his/her cooldown (and spirits) to craft cloth epic armour. Why should only the blacksmith rely on another CRAFTING profession to make theirs?? Why should an Engineer (who's gathing partner is mining) have to rely on an alchemist to make their products??? Either make ALL crafters rely on another craft for their current end game recipes, or do not make any of them.

  10. #210
    Herald of the Titans Valarius's Avatar
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    Some of you are *really* missing the point.

    To make a Blacksmith Buckle (or piece of gear) you:

    Mine ore > Send to an Alch to transmute > Which you need Herbalism to level > So that you can craft on your Blacksmith.

    That's 4 professions that you need to be able to craft gear on your Blacksmith.

    By comparison, my LW needs only Skinning and my Tailor needs, well, Tailoring. My Scribe only needs Herbalism to get mats to craft glyphs and cards.

    Blacksmithing crafting requires FOUR different professions (how else do you level Alchemy?) to make a 600 item by yourself.

    All the others (with the exception of Engi if you want gogs or w/e and JC Primals (not required to make money from JC though)) take 1 Gathering, and 1 Crafting.

    I have BS and Engi.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2012-10-19 at 08:39 PM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Some of you are *really* missing the point.
    No, we understand all of that.

    It's just that we think it's a perfectly fine game design.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  12. #212
    Herald of the Titans Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    No, we understand all of that.

    It's just that we think it's a perfectly fine game design.
    How can you think it's fine exactly that you need a second CRAFTING profession (which you need a second GATHERING profession to level) to make any endgame recipes as a Blacksmith?

    It would be fine if, say, all crafters relied on another crafter for mats; but they don't. Blacksmiths, Engis and JCs (though not as big a deal) rely on a second crafter for endgame enhancements/profitable items. The others can make all of their items with just 1 gathering supporting profession.

    Let's have a look at an example;

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=85826

    vs

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=82979

    Same ilvl, for all intents and purposes they are equal pieces of gear.

    One takes 3 Magnificent Hide (created by LW) and 8 SoH.
    The other takes 8 Living Steel (created by Alch) and 8 SoH.

    There's not only an imbalance in terms of the *source* of materials, but the AMOUNT is also skewed;
    1 Living Steel is 6 Trillium, which is 60 Ghost Iron = 480 ore for 8 Living Steel.
    1 Magnificent Hide is 50 Exotic Leather = 150 leather for 3 hides.

    On what planet is that a good design?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefrog View Post
    I don't know about your server, but I buy living steels off AH, make a belt buckle, and mark it up 400g. I've made over 6k like this over the past 2 weeks with very little effort.

    Edit: I know some people make the distinction between being dependent on a gathering profession vs another crafting profession, but to be dependent is dependent. The only downside to BS right now is that it requires 2 dependencies if you wish to do it all by yourself. Primarily you need a miner for ore and an alchemist for living steels.

    Other professions have their own unique problems too though. Inscriptionists and jewelcrafters rely on RNG for the good stuff. Enchanting and tailoring require drops. Elixir alchemists require the very rare golden lotus.
    ^ This. You're not dependant on it, you just have to have a middle man to make the final result.

    Then you rack up the price BECAUSE of the required process, if people can't understand why the price is so high, and don't look into it and just complain, that's their own damn fault.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    How can you think it's fine exactly that you need a second CRAFTING profession (which you need a second GATHERING profession to level) to make any endgame recipes as a Blacksmith?
    I do it by typing into this text window.

    Maybe you need to realize what you think is obvously true is neither obvious nor true.

    None of the points you bring up are evidence supporting the point you are trying to make. Yes, those details about blacksmithing are true. No, BS is not broken. Deal with it.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  15. #215
    Herald of the Titans Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I do it by typing into this text window.

    Maybe you need to realize what you think is obvously true is neither obvious nor true.

    None of the points you bring up are evidence supporting the point you are trying to make. Yes, those details about blacksmithing are true. No, BS is not broken. Deal with it.
    That's right, skip over the evidence. Stop trying to sound smart, you're making yourself look stupid.

    I provided links to 2 chestplate recipes, one from LW and one from BS that are of the same item budget and power.

    Can you explain to me why only the Blacksmith must either pay through the nose for Living Steel or suck it up and level an alt with Herbalism and Alchemy, but it's fair that the Leatherworker only needs Skinning to get his upgrades? (Oh, and why you need almost 500 Ghost Iron but only 150 Exotic Leather - which are comparable in quality. They're both common materials)

    You can't because there's no good reason. Good day.

    E: As I already said, if you want crafted items to need mats from another crafting profession then give that treatment to ALL crafters; Make Alchemists need Enchanting mats for flasks and pots, make LW need Silk. Till then there is an imbalance and that's not OK.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2012-10-19 at 09:13 PM.

  16. #216
    Just wait till he finds out his belt buckles are useless without a jewel crafter.
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  17. #217
    While it doesn't really bother me since I have a Transmutation Master, I just don't understand how come Living Steel doesn't come from Mining like Titansteel did instead of Alchemy.
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  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    That's right, skip over the evidence. Stop trying to sound smart, you're making yourself look stupid.
    I'm not skipping over the evidence, I'm denying the validity of your inference from that evidence. You are presenting your own personal opinion on game design as some kind of objective fact. It's not.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
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  19. #219
    Blademaster
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    I understand that alchemists need to earn gold too, but why only on the backs of blacksmiths and engineers. (As far as I can tell, only the JC mounts need living steel, and as vanity items, I can support that)

    Osmeric's and other's opinion is that it is not broken, mine and other's is that it is. We are all entitled to our opinions. My main is a Miner/BS, I have covered all other professions though alts, but I should not have to turn to those alts to provide the main ingredients for my epic recipes. If I needed a few rare gems, some leather or cloth for a few pieces, that would be fine, but not half the mats being produced by another craft and the other half from rare drops! (Spirits)

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    My main is a Miner/BS, I have covered all other professions though alts, but I should not have to turn to those alts to provide the main ingredients for my epic recipes. If I needed a few rare gems, some leather or cloth for a few pieces, that would be fine, but not half the mats being produced by another craft and the other half from rare drops! (Spirits)
    The main I am playing in this expansion is also a miner/BS. I have a lvl 85 alt with alchemy. I skilled up that alt to 600 alchemy without it taking a single step into Pandaria.

    But even if I hadn't, I could have sold ghost iron and bought living steel on the AH, to the extent I needed LS to enjoy the benefits of blacksmithing. Or, I could have sold ghost iron ore for ridiculous prices and just kept the thousands of gold. I am amazed mining is still as lucrative as it is, when ghost iron nodes are so plentiful.

    Addendum: my BS character made and sold two ilvl 463 weapons today, making 8000g for 5 SoH on each. This is much better than flipping the SoH into Golden Lotus on that server. So don't tell me blacksmiths have it tough.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2012-10-21 at 10:37 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

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