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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigface View Post
    I feel like some people just don't understand economics... Currently it requires a Living Steel(s) to craft certain Blacksmith items. This is based on an alchemist cooldown so they might be a bit rare. That makes them worth more, but as a direct result, it also makes what BSs craft more rare as well. If belt buckles, for example, aren't selling well, or just aren't selling for enough profit, then buying Living Steel and making them is a waste of money and time. If people don't make belt buckles because there's no profit, then Living Steels don't get bought and eventually their prices are driven down. Eventually an equilibrium is met and belt buckles are profitable again. Getting rid of the alchemist transmute, or providing one to blacksmiths wouldn't solve anything, it would just decrease the value of Living Steel, which would decrease the value of the belt buckle.

    Basically, there is no point in worrying about where you get your mats from. If we could all just go around making unlimited Living Steels, there would be no value whatsoever in belt buckles - they'd be worth barely more than the ghost iron required. If the alchemist transmute is too much for you, don't buy it and don't make belt buckles. I, however, will continue to make belt buckles and continue to make profit. I mean, really, Living Steel is only selling well because they make us money in the end.
    I do not think anyone is complaining about there being a cooldown, it is who has the cooldown.[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-24 at 10:16 AM ----------

    sorry, kujko, removed my comment when i realized i had added to my post after you had responded
    Last edited by Arahir; 2012-10-24 at 05:18 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #242
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    I've been looking at my transmutes and I cant find the one that lets me make living steel without a miner or transmute gems without a jeweler. Its almost as if the trade skills are intended to be interdependent.
    Wrong! Jc, Eng, BS depend on alchemy, not the other way around. An alchemist does not need living steel or meta gems they transmute to make anything. And the other professions do not relay on other crafting professions. Enchanters used to need blacksmiths to make the enchanting rods but blizzard got rid of that.\

    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Great. So when do Alchemists get to craft gear to sell? Or should they only be close to symmetrical when it comes to stuff you dont get?
    When our gear we craft come with build in flasks.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-10-24 at 05:29 PM.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Great. So when do Alchemists get to craft gear to sell? Or should they only be close to symmetrical when it comes to stuff you dont get?
    Alchemists can craft gear to sell when BS can create his own potions and flasks....

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    Alchemists can craft gear to sell when BS can create his own potions and flasks....
    Apples to oranges. One of the primary things Alchemists make to sell is transmutes, which require the aid of other trade skills to do. Why should Smiths not need to interact with other players while other trade skills do? You are making the belt buckles to sell, correct? If not then its only one and there's no point in this long complaint about having buy the materials.
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  5. #245
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Apples to oranges. One of the primary things Alchemists make to sell is transmutes, which require the aid of other trade skills to do. Why should Smiths not need to interact with other players while other trade skills do? You are making the belt buckles to sell, correct? If not then its only one and there's no point in this long complaint about having buy the materials.

    If you can't see the difference at all you have issues. You don't need BS to make flasks. BS need you to make everything worth selling such epic gear, belt buckles, and weapon chains. Big difference. Your transmutes are for items BS, JC, and engineers make.

  6. #246
    the only reason i even do blacksmithing is to have the extra slots in my bracer and gloves; otherwise the profession is useless to me. I think I sold a few belt buckles at the beginning of the xpac for abit of profit but otherwise pretty much every other profession is more profitable.
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  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    If you can't see the difference at all you have issues. You don't need BS to make flasks. BS need you to make everything worth selling such epic gear, belt buckles, and weapon chains. Big difference. Your transmutes are for items BS, JC, and engineers make.
    Sorry, I dont see the difference in one trade skill needing the output of another to make sellable goods and blacksmithing needing the output of other trade skills to also make sellable goods. Seems about right to me. Guess I need that "help" you speak of to understand why Blacksmithing should get special treatment.

    I assume that most blacksmiths are miners. So how about this, you sell the materials to alchemists, they make the living steel, you buy it back and make the belt buckle which you then sell for a profit.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  8. #248
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Sorry, I dont see the difference in one trade skill needing the output of another to make sellable goods and blacksmithing needing the output of other trade skills to also make sellable goods. Seems about right to me. Guess I need that "help" you speak of to understand why Blacksmithing should get special treatment.

    I assume that most blacksmiths are miners. So how about this, you sell the materials to alchemists, they make the living steel, you buy it back and make the belt buckle which you then sell for a profit.

    How about we make it so every flask and potion you make requires a new crafting material. For this crafting material you have to take a bunch of herbs to someone with another crafting profession to use their day cooldown to make it. When that happens you can compare alchemy and blacksmithing.

  9. #249
    Stood in the Fire DaHomieG's Avatar
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    I like how you didn't list Engineering. We make no money AT ALL. And on my monk's inscription, I have to wait 24 hours to make a scroll of wisdom, which I need 20 of to make a fucking staff. TWENTY DAYS.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    Osmeric, I do know what you are saying, and yes, i COULD do that. The point I am TRYING to make is that, in my opinion, because tailors and leatherworkers do not have to, that blacksmiths should NOT have to either. IF all 3 armour producing professions had the same type of requirement, then I would not complain, even though I still would not like it.
    When tailors and leatherworkers can make weapons, you might begin to have a point here.

    Hell, there isn't even a green bag upgrade this expansion for tailors to make.

    This is all you need to know:

    Can you make money off it? Yes. Therefore it is working as intended. If you are incapable of turning living steel into profit on a blacksmith I dare say you're doing it wrong.

    And if you're not trying to make a profit and your complaint is merely about cost, there's a way to cover that cost. It's called turning living steel into profit.

    Your problem has an EASY solution. Exercise that solution.

  11. #251
    There should be more co dependency among the professions in my opinion. If it's that much of an issue ditch mining for alchemy which is one of the cheapest professions to level. Ghost Iron Ore prices will tank soon if they haven't already in your server and if they don't you price whatever crafted goods (ie your buckles) you make with the price you paid for the mats in mind. I don't see the problem. If you want to keep mining instead of alchemy then that's just your personal preference. At least those buckles will be good the whole expansion, the only thing tailoring has which has a use come next tier is the Royal Satchels which cost a huge 12 Imperial Silks to make.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    How about we make it so every flask and potion you make requires a new crafting material. For this crafting material you have to take a bunch of herbs to someone with another crafting profession to use their day cooldown to make it. When that happens you can compare alchemy and blacksmithing.
    Sounds better then Golden Lotus. But again you are avoiding the comparison of sellable goods vs sellable goods. In my experience flasks dont sell that well (differs server to server of course), I really only make them for my raid groups.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  13. #253
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Sounds better then Golden Lotus. But again you are avoiding the comparison of sellable goods vs sellable goods. In my experience flasks dont sell that well (differs server to server of course), I really only make them for my raid groups.
    Nope. I already responded. You just fail at grasping the concept that your comparisons aren't comparable. And you can buy 3 golden lotus with a spirit. We can't use spirits to buy living steel.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-10-24 at 09:25 PM.

  14. #254
    Dreadlord Rivyr's Avatar
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    No one has mentioned enginering here, this profession has a long history of needing items made by other professions. Bolts of cloth, special tubes from BS, gems from prospecting, leather from skinning even hides from LW.

    As a JC i need an alchemist to make meta gems and in turn the alchemist needs my gems to transmute said meta gems.

    There have been tailoring patterns that needed dust from enchanters in the past.

    enchanteres used to need black smiths and for a time, Leather working needed BS as well to create buckles.

    so to cry about your profession needing an item from another profession is pointless. The game has had a long history of professiosn being dependent upon other professions to make their items.
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  15. #255
    Warchief Sett's Avatar
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    I'd be more upset with how boring Blacksmithing has become. Extra slots and a belt buckle. That's mostly it. No cool weapon or armor to strive for.

  16. #256
    Dreadlord Rivyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sett View Post
    I'd be more upset with how boring Blacksmithing has become. Extra slots and a belt buckle. That's mostly it. No cool weapon or armor to strive for.
    I miss the upgradeable weapons from BC, they did give some of those to inscription though, gunna be interesting to see how that plays out.
    I'm a Paladin, Judging is sort of my thing...

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  17. #257
    Epic! Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntler View Post
    When tailors and leatherworkers can make weapons, you might begin to have a point here.

    Hell, there isn't even a green bag upgrade this expansion for tailors to make.

    This is all you need to know:

    Can you make money off it? Yes. Therefore it is working as intended. If you are incapable of turning living steel into profit on a blacksmith I dare say you're doing it wrong.

    And if you're not trying to make a profit and your complaint is merely about cost, there's a way to cover that cost. It's called turning living steel into profit.

    Your problem has an EASY solution. Exercise that solution.
    Seriously you don't even get the point of the thread. If it required living steel to make your bags and armor, you would be in here complaining too. Tailoring doesn't rely on any other profession, crafting or gathering. I have a tailor. It being a self sustaining profession is a BIG perk. Find another thread to cry in.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    No one has mentioned enginering here, this profession has a long history of needing items made by other professions. Bolts of cloth, special tubes from BS, gems from prospecting, leather from skinning even hides from LW.

    As a JC i need an alchemist to make meta gems and in turn the alchemist needs my gems to transmute said meta gems.

    There have been tailoring patterns that needed dust from enchanters in the past.

    enchanteres used to need black smiths and for a time, Leather working needed BS as well to create buckles.

    so to cry about your profession needing an item from another profession is pointless. The game has had a long history of professiosn being dependent upon other professions to make their items.
    Multiple people in this thread have mentioned engineering and JC requiring alchemists just like blacksmiths. JC doesn't rely on it to the same degree as Blacksmiths though. Leatherworking relaying on skinning is not the point, because BS requires mining + alchemy. And who cares about past recipes?!! In the past few expansions, cloth boot haven't required leather and leatherworking recipes haven't require cloth. Blizzard showed they didn't want enchanters to rely on blacksmiths to make their rods. Games change and obviously blizzard went away from the professions being so reliant on others, except in the case of blacksmithing, JC, and Engineering.

  18. #258
    What I don't get is why Inscription gets the BOA epics, and ONLY inscription. Why not give them to BS as well? I'd kill for a BOA 476 for when my warrior hits 90...or even some BOA 463s that req level 85 like the Arch polearm to help him level. Instead all we get are crappy 415 weapons for 85s that require SoH to craft.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Seriously you don't even get the point of the thread.
    We get the factual points you are making. We simply disagree with you that this is in any way a problem. Your values and judgment are not ours, and our lack of agreement with you is not because we somehow fail to understand your pearls of timeless wisdom.
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  20. #260
    The Lightbringer shadowkras's Avatar
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    And what exactly do you as an alchemist need living steel for other than to sell to someone who actually needs the living steel to craft?
    Living steel nothing, but alchemists can make stuff needed for other professions.
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