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  1. #261
    Keyboard Turner Pythonidae's Avatar
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    I've made over 40K with 600 Blacksmithing, it's not that bad.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    I've been looking at my transmutes and I cant find the one that lets me make living steel without a miner or transmute gems without a jeweler. Its almost as if the trade skills are intended to be interdependent.
    I think it's right next to the one that requires Living Steel to make your high end alchemy stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    No, they should not be absolutely symmetrical, but they should be close. Maybe have Alchemists do a transmute of Windwool into imperial silk, and the leather too.

    and no, BS does not have to equivalent to JC or Enchanting, but it should be equivalent to Tailor and LW.
    That wouldn't make it symmetrical either. Perhaps requiring bars of metal to make flasks or enchanting mats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Great. So when do Alchemists get to craft gear to sell? Or should they only be close to symmetrical when it comes to stuff you dont get?
    Apples to oranges. One of the primary things Alchemists make to sell is transmutes, which require the aid of other trade skills to do. Why should Smiths not need to interact with other players while other trade skills do? You are making the belt buckles to sell, correct? If not then its only one and there's no point in this long complaint about having buy the materials.

    Apples to oranges indeed. If I'm making high end things on my blacksmith just for myself, I still need an alchemist. If an alchemist is making things just for himself, he's entirely self sufficient. Even if we're looking at things to sell, you'll still be selling pots by the end of the expansion, and probably every week (or maybe that's just me). Blacksmithing seriously peters out; no one goes through a stack of belt buckles after a night of raiding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivyr View Post
    No one has mentioned enginering here, this profession has a long history of needing items made by other professions. Bolts of cloth, special tubes from BS, gems from prospecting, leather from skinning even hides from LW.

    As a JC i need an alchemist to make meta gems and in turn the alchemist needs my gems to transmute said meta gems.

    There have been tailoring patterns that needed dust from enchanters in the past.

    enchanteres used to need black smiths and for a time, Leather working needed BS as well to create buckles.

    so to cry about your profession needing an item from another profession is pointless. The game has had a long history of professiosn being dependent upon other professions to make their items.
    Oh no, we understand. Engineering was the profession I chose on my first character several years ago. As interdependent as that as, I still have 2 engineers. I will never level blacksmithing again. And yes, tailors and leatherworkers did need buckles to make things, but nothing that you couldn't just skip in order to skill up and more importantly, nothing that was high end. And as far as what I highlighted in your comment, what item can an alchemist make that requires Living Steel and gems? They're entirely independent with an herbalist combination and it show in this thread where you have blacksmiths saying, "This isn't right or fair", and alchemists saying "I'm making tons of money on it so there's nothing wrong here".

  3. #263
    Totally agree with OP.

    Blizzard: You invented these professions years ago. Mining+blacksmithing was the solid combo. Its probably even in the manual. Now look at what blacksmiths need to craft epic gear.

  4. #264
    Mechagnome Finangus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    Great. So when do Alchemists get to craft gear to sell? Or should they only be close to symmetrical when it comes to stuff you dont get?
    Orange, meet apple.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayden View Post
    Now look at what blacksmiths need to craft epic gear.
    Access to the AH.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  6. #266
    Blademaster
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    For armour crafting professions, only a miner/blacksmith NEEDS access to the AH (or an alchemist), tailors and skinner/leatherworkers are self sufficient.

    Everyone screams if a class is out of balance, but not a profession?? Why the double standard?

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    Everyone screams if a class is out of balance, but not a profession?? Why the double standard?
    Because it makes no actual difference? ZOMG I have to use the AH -- my world is ending!!!1!
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  8. #268
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    What part are you not understanding Osmeric? I have no problem using the AH when I need to, but if a Tailor or a LW does not need to, why should a blacksmith? Can you please explain why the double standard in plain simple language so my small brain that obviously cannot grasp the reasoning can understand it!

    Tailor, uses Imperial Silk, created by TAILOR cooldown,
    LW, uses Magnificent Leather, created by LW cooldown,
    BS, used Living Steel, created by created by Alchemist cooldown!

    heck, the tailor doesn't even need to worry about collecting Spirits of Harmony!!
    Last edited by Arahir; 2012-10-25 at 07:49 PM.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    What part are you not understanding Osmeric? I have no problem using the AH when I need to, but if a Tailor or a LW does not need to, why should a blacksmith? Can you please explain why the double standard in plain simple language so my small brain that obviously cannot grasp the reasoning can understand it!

    Tailor, uses Imperial Silk, created by TAILOR cooldown,
    LW, uses Magnificent Leather, created by LW cooldown,
    BS, used Living Steel, created by created by Alchemist cooldown!
    And LW can skin those leathers that you need to create Magnificent Hide? Thought so.

  10. #270
    Herald of the Titans Syridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucplayer View Post
    Can you even read?
    Alt char with alchemy is NOT THE SOLUTION

    Tailors, Leatherworkers can gather all thier mats and make their own crafting gear including epic quality.
    Blacksmithers can't make living steel which is required by everything.
    JC's can mine nodes = free mats to cut gems(no metas but can make alot of profit from gems)
    Alch can gather herbs = free mats
    and so on.

    Balance? I don't see it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 04:03 PM ----------



    That's another problem.
    Low pop
    15% alliance 85% Horde
    I'm from Alliance...AH is completly dead.

    But still, this is a proffession issue.
    I laughed when you said we can make a lot of profit from mining gems.

  11. #271
    Field Marshal Cotterize's Avatar
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    you spelled "this whole expansion" wrong OP.
    "A drug person can learn to cope with things like seeing their dead grandmother crawling up their leg with a knife in her teeth. But no one should be asked to handle this trip. "

  12. #272
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suizid View Post
    And LW can skin those leathers that you need to create Magnificent Hide? Thought so.
    No, needs to buy on AH, or pair with the natural gathering profession, skinning!
    Just like Alchemy needs to pair with its natural gathering profession, mining!! :P

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    What part are you not understanding Osmeric? I have no problem using the AH when I need to, but if a Tailor or a LW does not need to, why should a blacksmith? Can you please explain why the double standard in plain simple language so my small brain that obviously cannot grasp the reasoning can understand it!
    I simply reject the implication that if blacksmithing is not identical in its relationship to other professions then there is something wrong. Why should I think this is a problem? I don't have some sort of obsessive compulsive fixation on symmetry for the sake of symmetry, and from a practical point of view you can use AH to get mats.

    So -- why exactly is this bothering you? Your upset seems entirely unjustified by any rational consideration.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    No, needs to buy on AH, or pair with the natural gathering profession, skinning!
    Just like Alchemy needs to pair with its natural gathering profession, mining!! :P
    So, every non-gathering profession, but tailoring needs to buy stuff from AH and you guys whine only about BS?

  15. #275
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    My suspicion is that Osmeric is an Alchemist....

    IF i pair my BS/JC/ENG with mining, I should be self sufficient for major mats,
    IF i pair my LW with skinning, ditto
    IF i pair my Scribe/Alchemist with Herbalism, ditto

    Problem is, BS and Eng are totally reliant on Alchemist as well as Miner, JC also to a lesser degree (metas and mount need transmutes)

    I simply accept the implication that because blacksmithing is not identical in its relationship to other professions then there is something wrong!

    I guess the only thing we can do is agree to disagree!

    I guess Miner/BS is wrong pairing, should say the natural gathering profession for blacksmith is Alchemy....
    Last edited by Arahir; 2012-10-25 at 08:32 PM.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    My suspicion is that Osmeric is an Alchemist....
    As I stated earlier in this thread, the main I leveled up first (and am raiding/PvPing with) in this expansion is a blacksmith/miner.

    I do have a level 85 alt on that server that is an alchemist, already skilled up to 600. This was not hard to do, but it doesn't save me a whole lot vs. buying LS if I had to.

    I've made tens of thousands of gold selling ilvl 463 weapons on the AH, and of course am benefiting from the superiority of the BS sockets in PvP (where, unlike other professions, they allow extra PvP power to be added to your stats.)

    Problem is, BS and Eng are totally reliant on Alchemist as well as Miner,
    May I suggest you simply stop whining about this? Seriously -- you are creating a problem that's entirely a product of your own irrationality. There is no objective reason this should offend you.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  17. #277
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    The only reason it "offends" me is that, as an armour crafter, I need to rely on another crafting profession to do so. The other armour crafters do not. Either all should or none should.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Arahir View Post
    The only reason it "offends" me is that, as an armour crafter, I need to rely on another crafting profession to do so. The other armour crafters do not. Either all should or none should.
    You're reduced to merely restating your complaint, because you cannot construct an argument that actually justifies your position. "Not being the same is bad because it's bad. BAAAD!"

    Never mind that the AH provides a way to obtain these mats at acceptable cost. Never mind that BS is not just an armor crafting profession. Never mind that BS provides benefits in PvP beyond the other professions. It's not the same, therefore it's bad.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    and of course am benefiting from the superiority of the BS sockets in PvP (where, unlike other professions, they allow extra PvP power to be added to your stats.)
    Shhhhh, Don't say that too loud, blizz will see it and nerf it......

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-25 at 02:53 PM ----------

    If not being the same is bad, why do we get complaints all the time because x class's dps is not as high as y class? You have not provided a reason why it is good, either! If it is to stimulate trade between crafts, why do not all crafts have similar requirements, say have the imperial silk cooldown done by an enchanter(because it has to be imbdued with the magical properties) , and the magnificent leather cooldown done by a Scribe (the leather needs to be etched with special ink). Just because you say it is good, does not make it so!

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