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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    What?! You're speaking of *gasp* coordination with others!
    I know right? Then there's those who still try and apply Holy Trinity compositions, builds and habits to a game that has none.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    I know right? Then there's those who still try and apply Holy Trinity compositions, builds and habits to a game that has none.
    Almost like it's mimicking a fight in real life. Oh noes!!!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by carnifex2005 View Post
    Almost like it's mimicking a fight in real life. Oh noes!!!
    Not true, the last time me and 4 friends tried to fight this dude, I kept yelling obscenities at him and being generally ineffective damage wise while hitting him in the gut, but he completely focused his attention on me and ignored my 90 lb friend who was hitting him in the back of the head with a 2x4 over and over again.

  4. #24
    I think we can all learn a lesson from Logan Thackeray. Got aggro? RUN AWAY!

  5. #25
    What are the other people doing while you have aggro? Are they just spamming their damage attacks? Or they trying to help out by applying snares, interrupts, perhaps even giving you some protection boons or speed buffs?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    What are the other people doing while you have aggro? Are they just spamming their damage attacks? Or they trying to help out by applying snares, interrupts, perhaps even giving you some protection boons or speed buffs?
    They were just swinging like there was no tomorrow. Only support I got was when they revived me, but I think they were just doing so so that the harpy won't come for them :P

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    When I am focused by a mob for a long time, I tend to do everything I do to survive and kite for as long as possible and accept that if he doesn't get off that I will be downed. My teammates will revive me and we repeat the dance.

    I feel like the dungeon designers intended people to go down during fights and be revived as a strategy and not a punishment. You're only punished if you don't get back up and become defeated.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  8. #28
    This happens to be all the time on my level 50 Ranger. I've done AC and CM a lot, and I notice that when I'm downed the mobs stick to me until I am dead and my pets dead, even though the rest of my party is alive and in close proximity. I then revive and run all the way back, only to have the mob again stick to me like glue after my first hit on it. I use all my dodges and escapes, but it's no use, once they are all used I am dead. Now I also have a level 50 Guardian and a level 40 Engineer, and this never happens on either of these two characters. Once I am downed, the mob moves on to someone else, providing there is someone else eligible to be hit. I am wondering if it is a Ranger thing.
    The kiss of the sun for pardon
    The song of the birds for mirth
    You are nearer gods heart in a garden
    Than anywhere else on earth

  9. #29
    I for one prefer the mob to focus on the downed guy.

    Because you can death tank it for a long time while a 2nd person is trying to get you back up.

    Besides, it wouldn't be much of a challenge if the mobs just randomly chases a target then switch off before he finishes him off.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerrickp View Post
    For some reason, some mobs tunnel-vision on me. Barely half an hour ago, six other people and myself (on my ranger with sb/lb) are fighting a champion destroyer harpy. During the fight, the harpy starts coming exclusively for me even though my pet is down and I've stop attacking to avoid the harpy. The harpy kills me, I'm revived by another player; a few seconds later, the harpy kills me again and another player revives me. Now this is the part that bugs me; I've been watching the harpy the whole time during my revival and the moment I got back on my feet, the harpy comes straight at me again. I didn't even have a chance to attack, I've barely gotten back on my feet and the harpy kills me again while ignoring 5 other players attacking it(6 overall if you count the player who revived me) It was like the moment the soles of my character's boots touched the ground, the harpy did a full blown kamikaze charge at me.

    Keep in mind that this happened while I was trying do stay out of melee range from the harpy and the last part happened when I was a good distance away from it (It essentially came halfway across the room to get me).

    This has happened numerous times on numerous characters/professions; they don't stop until I'm dead. I've tried control abilities; attacking more, even stopping my attack completely but some of these mobs seem to have one mission in life and that's to keep me dead.
    The main thing here is that different mob types have different argo mechanics... maybe that harpy was designed to kill the weakest link and by trying to drop argo by not attacking you where actually gaining more argo by not attacking. Some mobs like to kill the strongest enemy first, others the weakest enemy, others target ranged first, wile others perfer to kill melee first, and others prefer to kill people healing the most, while others perfer to kill those applying boons the most, and others perfer to kill players applying x debuff to the mob, yet most of them have a compilation of multiple reasons, for example mob A may prefer to kill the weakest melee player if no one is aplying bleeds but prefers to kill those applying bleeds first, while mob B may prefer to kill the strongest ranged if no one is applying might to people but prefer the person applying might first.

    Though it can sometimes be a real pain to not know why your the one running around franticly trying to not die to a mob that really took a liking to you I do prefer these argo methods over the simplistic easily exploitable argo tables that MMORPGs have had of x damage= x2 points of threat, y healing= y2 points of threat multiplied or divided by threat modifying skills where say a "tank threat self buff" multiplies all threat by 1.25 and "high threat" skill A multiplies threat by 1.5 so someone tanking in a tnak aura using a high threat skill you can caculate to being xdamage = x2*1.25*1.5 = 1.875 x2.

    There are two main reasons for more complex threat tables, A) technology now can handle a lot more complex data then back 10 years ago and so more complex threat tables are more of an option now, and B) because more complex threat tables are harder to manipulate then straight up multiplier values applied to damage and healing and so it adds a bit more chaos to the fights that otherwise would become predicable to where you can not pay attention at all to the fight but know when to dodge and when to back off on threat, etc.

    All in all this threat system is a lot more interesting and fun then prior ones and makes more "real world sense" as well because say your in a fire resistant suit of armor that is not as strong against a blade as other armors, you are going to want to kill or disarm that person with a sword faster then that person with a blowtorch, while as your friend Bob is with you in the same battle and he is in big old stonking diamond plated metal armor that is nearly inpeniturable by blades but doesn't handle temperature well, Bob is going to care less about people whacking him with swords and will want to disarm or kill that person who can flash fry him with the blowtorch, but because you and Bob are fighting together you will probably have Bob work on the swordsmen while you handle the flamethrower despite your normal tendencies since you want to help Bob and Bob wants to help you. So in that example if your by yourself you go after the swordsman, if Bob is by himself he goes after the flamethrower, but if you and Bob are together you switch your priorities to take the least amount of damage as possible while protecting your ally.


    All in all, I prefer the less predictable harder to manipulate threat tables then that of what threat tables use to have to be even if in some cases it can be quit annoying.

  11. #31
    When I've caught on that I'm holding a Champion's aggro until it dies, it shifts my playstyle pretty quickly and I tend to start living longer by kiting. Playing smart has also gotten the thing to die faster because everyone else can go on the offensive, and I have enough tricks and things to keep myself alive going full defensive (tank mesmer is best mesmer).

    That said, as a mesmer this really really freaking sucks when it happens to you. When aggro magnet locks in, your clones become functionally meaningless. Not only do they already do zero damage, but they will no longer be able to distract or soak a hit for you (unless Decoy). Everything will walk right past them, no matter how many you spawn, and walk straight to you. Using them as meatshields is meaningless, and they often die to a passive effect or the next cleave without being targetted regardless. So hope you can make the most out of them amping up Ether Feast, I guess?
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  12. #32
    Yeah this happens a lot. The whole game seems to be based on kiting while you have aggro. Need to stop thinking trinity and start thinking duality. Everyone has 2 roles and 2 roles only dps with occasional support. and kiter. You swap back and forth between these roles as needed with your weapon swap and a skill change or 2 if needed. then when someone else gets the aggro (if ever) you swap back to damage. Rinse repeat till it dies.
    We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams,
    Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;—
    World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams:
    Yet we are the movers and shakers, Of the world for ever, it seems.

    -1st stanza, Ode by: Arthur O'Shaughnessy

  13. #33
    Same here. I can't understand how it works. I very often end up with having to kite and I'm mostly a glass cannon, with few tricks but yeah, these tricks end too. They often don't switch when I'm downed.

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    this why why you bring a glytch to stealth you

    unless you immediately break out of it but then thats on you

    ofc theres always chilled, cripple, KB, KD, stun, immob and probably some other mechanics im forgetting atm that will help you get far enough away to make the AI switch target

    you know, just like in gw1
    The Original Ganksta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    When I've caught on that I'm holding a Champion's aggro until it dies, it shifts my playstyle pretty quickly and I tend to start living longer by kiting. Playing smart has also gotten the thing to die faster because everyone else can go on the offensive, and I have enough tricks and things to keep myself alive going full defensive (tank mesmer is best mesmer).

    That said, as a mesmer this really really freaking sucks when it happens to you. When aggro magnet locks in, your clones become functionally meaningless. Not only do they already do zero damage, but they will no longer be able to distract or soak a hit for you (unless Decoy). Everything will walk right past them, no matter how many you spawn, and walk straight to you. Using them as meatshields is meaningless, and they often die to a passive effect or the next cleave without being targetted regardless. So hope you can make the most out of them amping up Ether Feast, I guess?
    What's wrong with Distortion or Diversion for shatters?

  16. #36
    Not true, the last time me and 4 friends tried to fight this dude, I kept yelling obscenities at him and being generally ineffective damage wise while hitting him in the gut, but he completely focused his attention on me and ignored my 90 lb friend who was hitting him in the back of the head with a 2x4 over and over again.
    "It's like a REAL fight! Not like in those other games where a silly tank distracts the mob. In this game a kiter distracts the mob!"

  17. #37
    Any time spent excessively kiting a mob around usually means your group was shit.

  18. #38
    As said a thousand times for several players, in this and other threads: no trinity doesn't mean "full dps", no trinity means that you'll be required to tank, dps and support, no matter which class you picked.

    Also, keep in mind that, at the "AI point of view", it makes sense that some monsters tunnel vision some players, specially the ones that they actually kill. Think of it as an RPG: do you know any dungeon master that would attack always the beefy players, even after the full dps mage has killed dozens of his powerful NPCs? For me, tanking through crowd control to save the weakest player makes more sense than tanking by "generating threat".

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Hraklea View Post
    As said a thousand times for several players, in this and other threads: no trinity doesn't mean "full dps", no trinity means that you'll be required to tank, dps and support, no matter which class you picked.

    Also, keep in mind that, at the "AI point of view", it makes sense that some monsters tunnel vision some players, specially the ones that they actually kill. Think of it as an RPG: do you know any dungeon master that would attack always the beefy players, even after the full dps mage has killed dozens of his powerful NPCs? For me, tanking through crowd control to save the weakest player makes more sense than tanking by "generating threat".
    Pretty much. Here's a nice infographic that shows how it works...

    Standard MMO



    Guild Wars 2


  20. #40
    The problem with those diagrams is that the ACTUAL gameplay is more like the top one than the bottom one.

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