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  1. #81
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    There are plenty of verses to support the claim of violence within islam......im not going to link them because it would almost assuredly get me a ban. They are there and can be found in less than 5 min of reasearch.

    I spent over 3 years of my life living in the middle east, surrounded by islamic culture.

    While the religion itself isn't paticularly violent, there is no established "command" structure to reign in the more extremist sects, nor is there world wide outrage from islamic societies when violent, and oppresive terrorist actions are taken by people in the name of islam.

    You get a C grade youtube film depicting Muhammed as a pedophile.....world wide islamic outrage.

    You have the Taliban stoning women to death for being a rape victim in the name of islam....not a peep.

    The answer to me is simple, to let them live the way they want in THEIR countries. If Supertony was emperor of the western world I wouldn't allow immigration from islamic countries for any reason. Commerce is fine, but our ways of life are just not compatible to live toghter peacefully over a long period of time.

    Like a very famous poet once said "Good fences make good neighboors" Seems like a good idea to me.
    Go ahead link these verses. I bet most of them either speak of afterlife or a war of defense. Also. since you seem so knowledgeable about Islamic culture, you should have known that anyone who kill an innocent gets a capital punishment. So, yeah Islam says that terrorism is punishable by death.

    Answer these questions: how can someone or something "command" extremists when they're "extremists" out of norm (can you command a crazy man?)? have you ever wondered why Taliban aren't allowed in All Arabian Gulf countries, Egypt, etc...?

    Finally, to the bolded part, in the first sentence you're saying that Islam supports violence while in the other you've said that Islam isn't particularly violent. So, which one is it is Islam violent or not? isn't it just extremists that are violent?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    Go ahead link these verses. I bet most of them either speak of afterlife or a war of defense. Also. since you seem so knowledgeable about Islamic culture, you should have known that anyone who kill an innocent gets a capital punishment. So, yeah Islam says that terrorism is punishable by death.

    Answer these questions: how can someone or something "command" extremists when they're "extremists" out of norm (can you command a crazy man?)? have you ever wondered why Taliban aren't allowed in All Arabian Gulf countries, Egypt, etc...?

    Finally, to the bolded part, in the first sentence you're saying that Islam supports violence while in the other you've said that Islam isn't particularly violent. So, which one is it is Islam violent or not? isn't it just extremists that are violent?
    Okay, ill do my best here.

    1. I'm not going to link the verses as i don't want to get banned, they're there for anyone that wants to look it up. Doesn't take much reasearch.

    2. The "command" structure comment is what i percieve to be the largest reason why so many terrorist actions happen in the name of islam. There is no established central clergy to commend or comdemn the actions taken by extremist elements. Of course it doesn't help that the world wide islamic community seems to be errily silent when atrocities are commited in the name of their religion, but are oddly vocal about a "C" grade video demeaning their prophet or a unfounded rumour about someone somewhere urinating on a quran wehter its true or not.

    From my experence in the middle east, the imams and various church/ sect leaders in any paticular area have a GIANT impact on what the people in that area believe. Without going into deep text walling, i can like it to the influence that priests had on people during the dark ages. The populace in some areas in the middle east seem to be much more controlled by religious leaders than in the west.

    The taliban and al-queda are not allowed in many gulf states because they know what a bunch of troublemakers they are. Thats why they are not welcome, not nessesarily because they disagree with everything they say or do, but because they don't want their bad habits conflicting with their power.

    3. Lastly Culture has a huge part to play. While many of the middle eastern / southwest asian countries have a similar religion, the cultures vary wildly. Iran and Iraq for example

  3. #83
    grown man with a gun tries and fails to kill a 14 year old girl. he's a pussy for the attempt, and words cant describe him for his failure

  4. #84
    Fluffy Kitten Wikiy's Avatar
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    To those of your arguing whether Qur'an has violence in it; oh, of course, it has shit tons of it. On the other hand, the Bible does too. Equally disgusting violence and equally disgusting messages in certain parts. So this isn't at all about what certain religions teach, it's about what extremists take from it. A normal Muslim will ignore the violent messages of the Qur'an as much as a normal Christian will ignore the equivalent messages in the Bible.

    So how about we stop condemning either group of people by the acts of extremists that call themselves the representatives of those groups yet are completely rejected by those groups and completely distort their true ideals? How about we stop the unnecessary bigotry and generalizations? It's something Americans should feel well irritated by and should understand, seeing what kind of comments you receive from Europe. It's something you should stop doing if you're really that irritated when it's done to you. Otherwise, it just makes you look like a bunch of hypocrits.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    To those of your arguing whether Qur'an has violence in it; oh, of course, it has shit tons of it. On the other hand, the Bible does too.
    One stopped being topical in 1300, the other one is still acted upon this day. You cant really compare their influences in 2012.

  6. #86
    Terrorists had no business shooting her and she had no business being an activist at 14.

  7. #87
    da world is fucked, life must be hell down there, glad not to be living there obv

  8. #88
    Brewmaster Knadra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    Saying something is atheist means it lacks belief in a god or gods - an institution that explicitly states that religious belief isn't part of it by definition lacks belief in god or gods.

    I feel you're being deliberately silly. It is atheist AND irreligious because atheism is part of irreligion.
    You worded that like someone who is religious and dislikes atheists would. You say lack of belief instead of reject or do not believe in a god. You can't compare the US being secular and their genocide in Iraq to the complicated conflicts of the Muslim world. One may not have been caused by religion but that doesn't make the other one not a religious conflict. Religion causes conflict that is a very agreeable thing to say that almost everyone can agree to but that doesn't mean every case of murder is caused by religion so don't blame people because you interpret what they say that way.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    There is none, if you're playing devil's advocate, like most indoctrinated teens today.
    There is a vast difference, and you are quite insane if you think differently.

  10. #90
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    You worded that like someone who is religious and dislikes atheists would. You say lack of belief instead of reject or do not believe in a god. You can't compare the US being secular and their genocide in Iraq to the complicated conflicts of the Muslim world. One may not have been caused by religion but that doesn't make the other one not a religious conflict. Religion causes conflict that is a very agreeable thing to say that almost everyone can agree to but that doesn't mean every case of murder is caused by religion so don't blame people because you interpret what they say that way.
    No offence meant but I am struggling to unpeel the layers here and get what you're trying to say?
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  11. #91
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Okay, ill do my best here.

    1. I'm not going to link the verses as i don't want to get banned, they're there for anyone that wants to look it up. Doesn't take much reasearch.

    2. The "command" structure comment is what i percieve to be the largest reason why so many terrorist actions happen in the name of islam. There is no established central clergy to commend or comdemn the actions taken by extremist elements. Of course it doesn't help that the world wide islamic community seems to be errily silent when atrocities are commited in the name of their religion, but are oddly vocal about a "C" grade video demeaning their prophet or a unfounded rumour about someone somewhere urinating on a quran wehter its true or not.

    From my experence in the middle east, the imams and various church/ sect leaders in any paticular area have a GIANT impact on what the people in that area believe. Without going into deep text walling, i can like it to the influence that priests had on people during the dark ages. The populace in some areas in the middle east seem to be much more controlled by religious leaders than in the west.

    The taliban and al-queda are not allowed in many gulf states because they know what a bunch of troublemakers they are. Thats why they are not welcome, not nessesarily because they disagree with everything they say or do, but because they don't want their bad habits conflicting with their power.

    3. Lastly Culture has a huge part to play. While many of the middle eastern / southwest asian countries have a similar religion, the cultures vary wildly. Iran and Iraq for example
    1. Fair enough don't link them but don't claim that they exist. I'll just say that in order to understand the verse you would need to understand the context, setting, and whole Sora sometimes. Just like any other book if taken out of context, it can mean anything you want it to mean.

    2. The part about condemning isn't that true, some examples in which Muslims condemned terrorist attacks:
    a. Bin Laden death was viewed by almost every Islamic organisation that has no connection to Al Qaeda as a "blessing" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactio..._organisations
    b. Assassination of American ambassador in Libya (Many Islamic countries and organisations condemned the attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Christopher_Stevens
    c. Condemning terrorism in general http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15044797 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-et...m_b_67904.html

    These things exist but unfortunately are not newsworthy because they are not "interesting". Have you ever seen a story where it says that American soldiers did something good? No, but that doesn't mean they're bad. It just means that they are not "newsworthy". Another thing you need to remember is that most countries where there is an Islamic majority happen to be dictatorships and as a result media is controlled by the government which means that none can broadcast anything without "approval". Your point about Imams/sect leaders having a major impact is kind of true but it is getting less and less "treuer" everyday. Read funding the terrorism part here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_A...ding_terrorism to answer your question about the golf states stance on Al Qaeda.

    3. Yes the cultures tend to vary especially between the Middle East and South West Asian countries. a.Golf states have similar cultures. b. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan. c. North and west African countries. d. the "stan" countries e.g. Afghanistan and Pakistan.

  12. #92
    Darwinism..............just because you can or are able to do something in a "free country" doesn't mean you wont get killed dead right there doing it where your "repressed".

  13. #93
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffums View Post
    Darwinism..............just because you can or are able to do something in a "free country" doesn't mean you wont get killed dead right there doing it where your "repressed".
    Pakistan is too far from being a "free country" unless you mean by that that anyone is free to do anything he wants including killing children then yes you're correct.

  14. #94
    The Lightbringer Mandible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsdaleHokie View Post
    Ahhh, the religion of peace.
    All religions got their extremists.
    "Only Jack can zip up."
    The word you want to use is "have" not "of".
    You may have alot of stuff in your country, but we got Lolland.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    All religions got their extremists.
    Even Quakers?

  16. #96
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Even Quakers?
    Ever eaten those oats? Smartly advertised taste genocide
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  17. #97
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurioxan View Post
    Indeed lol...
    What happened is disgusting, but this is classic propaganda, trying to "demonize" the "enemy" to the eyes of the public so they can keep justifying military actions that do far more damage than that single event.
    Also, i doubt a 14 year old is capable of "being an activist" for many reasons...

    You do realize that in the 50-60s all those countries were quite stable, developing and comparable to the west?
    Check what happened around then, and who did it, and you will realize all those "monsters" are our creation.
    What the fuck are you talking about? How asinine... a girl fighting for women education get shots = propaganda? Are they leaving out a secret part of the story? Did she have a gun and they shot her in self defense? Or were they just mad and shot her to make a point? You know what likely happened.

    I don't need to demonize them, they good a pretty damn good job of that themselves.

    During the 60s there were teen activist fighting for civil rights so what the fuck are you talking about?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 11:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandible View Post
    All religions got their extremists.
    Except Muslim's tend to have way more and way more damaging extremist than other religions.

  18. #98
    She's an example of that religion of peace. Those who shot her, are examples of how grossly manipulative people can be to justifying killing to their religion.
    You now stand before the Countess.
    A story of Firsts from around the world:
    http://thingsihaveneverdone.wordpress.com/

  19. #99
    many people in those regions have a different mindset regarding the value of human lives. they simply don't care - unless you are of the same tribe.

  20. #100
    Banned TheGravemind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    I don't know if you're stupid or acting stupid most of Muslims DO consider what the Talibans do as terror attacks.
    He's just stupid, ignore him. He was already banned. gg.

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