1. #1

    Heroic Stone Guard 10 Man as Melee

    Is it just me, or is this fight especially troublesome if Jasper Chains are up and you're running with a melee DPSer?

    Our guild downed this boss last week on heroic mode, without much trouble, but we didn't have to deal with Jasper; this week, however, with Chains going out, we had much more trouble.

    As the only melee DPSer in the raid, I feel as if Blizzard is punishing the raid as a whole by bringing a melee DPS, when a guild could simply bring full ranged DPS, which would greatly increase DPS uptime for everyone.

    The problem is that a lot of ranged DPS don't really know how to move like a melee DPS, meaning they move too slowly or too cautiously, or they simply are being slow and cautious or prudent or whatever because there's so much junk within melee range of the boss that they have to look out for. So when I'm chained to a certain ranged DPS or healer, it becomes fairly manageable for me to move with them without losing much DPS uptime; but sometimes, when I'm chained to other players, I literally have to stand--tantalizingly sometimes--a few yards out of range from a boss because the ranged DPS hasn't yet learned how to move with a melee character or because, if it's a healer, the healer has to get off a cast, before moving again.

    This is the most unfair fight I've ever seen for melee DPS--in the sense that you, by being melee, are gimping other players pretty significantly, or simply making the fight a lot harder for them. The fight is obviously more annoying as melee in general, and I'm fine with that, but I'm not fine with a melee DPS invariably making this fight harder than it needs to be for other players.

    Our best attempt was 4% and that's because someone died and we hit the enrage timer, and I was 2nd on DPS, but even still, my point is that my character is making it harder on Ranged/Healers.

    Is there anything that can be done to make this fight less stupid for melee, with chains, or is it just tough luck?
    Last edited by amamerc; 2012-10-24 at 07:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by amamerc View Post
    Is it just me, or is this fight especially troublesome if Jasper Chains are up and you're running with a melee DPSer?

    Our guild downed this boss last week on heroic mode, without much trouble, but we didn't have to deal with Jasper; this week, however, with Chains going out, we had much more trouble.

    As the only melee DPSer in the raid, I feel as if Blizzard is punishing the raid as a whole by bringing a melee DPS, when a guild could simply bring full ranged DPS, which would greatly increase DPS uptime for everyone.

    The problem is that a lot of ranged DPS don't really know how to move like a melee DPS, meaning they move too slowly or too cautiously, or they simply are being slow and cautious or prudent or whatever because there's so much junk within melee range of the boss that they have to look out for. So when I'm chained to a certain ranged DPS or healer, it becomes fairly manageable for me to move with them without losing much DPS uptime; but sometimes, when I'm chained to other players, I literally have to stand--tantalizingly sometimes--a few yards out of range from a boss because the ranged DPS hasn't yet learned how to move with a melee character or because, if it's a healer, the healer has to get off a cast, before moving again.

    This is the most unfair fight I've ever seen for melee DPS--in the sense that you, by being melee, are gimping other players pretty significantly, or simply making the fight a lot harder for them. The fight is obviously more annoying as melee in general, and I'm fine with that, but I'm not fine with a melee DPS invariably making this fight harder than it needs to be for other players.

    Our best attempt was 4% and that's because someone died and we hit the enrage timer, and I was 2nd on DPS, but even still, my point is that my character is making it harder on Ranged/Healers.

    Is there anything that can be done to make this fight less stupid for melee, with chains, or is it just tough luck?
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  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Mehman's Avatar
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    The fight is harder with melee indeed, mostly because they have to keep up with the tanks movements, which is sometimes quite a lot, and ranged dps (most of them) can't cast while moving, same goes for healers.


  4. #4
    The Patient
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    You suggested part of the solution yourself in saying that many ranged have no clue how to move like a melee and are too slow to react. It's practice. On the other hand it's true, it hinders raid DPS if ranged and melee get chained together. But maybe you aren't gimping them, but they are gimping you :>

  5. #5
    Nothing you can do other then get them to move with you, this fight is painful on 25hc too because you have all 4 guardians up, quite possibly the worst fight ever made imo.

  6. #6
    If your ranged don't understand how melee move and can't move with them they need to stop tunneling.

    Is it an inconvenience? Sure. Is the lost dps gonna really matter? Not if your group is doing tiles whenever they can. This is one of those fights where mechanic execution > squeezing out dps, as good execution will naturally increase both your damage and your healer's mana regen.

    Move as normal, partially slightly askew as your ranged partner might not let you always attack from the back, otherwise you have to expect them to adapt.

    The unfair part of melee being chained is more about more mines/pools clustering the boss area, forcing tank movement and possibly boxing a tank in. Invincibilities like deterrance, bubble, or even dispersion are a quick fix to that one though, as well as smart tank pre-planning.

    Just remember to remind the ranged thats linked to you, they're bound to you and need to keep up, its a mechanics fight.

  7. #7
    This fight on 25m Heroic was/ is such a bleeding pain in the scrotum. We decided to bring only 5 melee, and even then it was still a nightmare to keep up with the barrage of spell/ particle effects in the fray on top of the main tank kiting the mobs. It is so, so difficult to see -ANYTHING- in melee with 18+ people blasting the target, pools of dark purple stuff, jasper chains, cobalt mines and stuff while TRYING to DPS.

    We get our ranged to move into the melee range for Jasper Chains but whoa they are not used to the !@#$tonne of chaos in there and are understandably much slower to react than the poor melee who have--unfortunately--become accustomed to it. Move slowly with them. My advice is to set your graphics to low and keep your eyes on the ground your toon stands on and hope for the best. The boss's hitbox is quite large and you can stand some distance away from it safely.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gande View Post
    If your ranged don't understand how melee move and can't move with them they need to stop tunneling.

    Is it an inconvenience? Sure. Is the lost dps gonna really matter? Not if your group is doing tiles whenever they can. This is one of those fights where mechanic execution > squeezing out dps, as good execution will naturally increase both your damage and your healer's mana regen.

    Move as normal, partially slightly askew as your ranged partner might not let you always attack from the back, otherwise you have to expect them to adapt.

    The unfair part of melee being chained is more about more mines/pools clustering the boss area, forcing tank movement and possibly boxing a tank in. Invincibilities like deterrance, bubble, or even dispersion are a quick fix to that one though, as well as smart tank pre-planning.

    Just remember to remind the ranged thats linked to you, they're bound to you and need to keep up, its a mechanics fight.
    I wish it were that simple, when the tanks taunt the add across the room there often is a wall of mines and purple sludge blocking your way. Sure I can shadow step to it, but when I'm chained I can't since the person I'm with doesn't have any type of ability that would avoid it. This was my 3rd week killing it and tonight was by far the worst raiding experience I've had in a long time, if ever. This combination is a melee's worst nightmare.
    Last edited by Knuckle; 2012-10-24 at 08:16 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckle View Post
    I wish it were that simple, when the tanks taunt the add across the room there often is a wall of mines and purple sludge blocking your way. Sure I can shadow step to it, but when I'm chained I can't since the person I'm with doesn't have any type of ability that would avoid it. This was my 3rd week killing it and tonight was by far the worst raiding experience I've had in a long time, if ever. This combination is a melee's worst nightmare.
    This coupled with the ranged DPS flaunting their crackling metres that are way above yours as melee because you're too busy avoiding stuff and running to ranged because they won't move. Salt on the wound, I tell you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Syio View Post
    This coupled with the ranged DPS flaunting their crackling metres that are way above yours as melee because you're too busy avoiding stuff and running to ranged because they won't move. Salt on the wound, I tell you.
    our warrior and ret top this fight a lot of times, and its not that hard you just have to stick with them and understand that sometimes melee has to switch targets:

    protip would be, if someone intelligent gets chained to you just dont break it for the remainder of the fight. then you dont have to worry about some retard messing it up

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Gande View Post
    The unfair part of melee being chained is more about more mines/pools clustering the boss area, forcing tank movement and possibly boxing a tank in. Invincibilities like deterrance, bubble, or even dispersion are a quick fix to that one though, as well as smart tank pre-planning.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Syio View Post
    barrage of spell/ particle effects
    I seriously hate that retarded trinket proc on a paladin using light of dawn or a monk healer.
    But well the encounter isn't that hard so it isn't really such an issue but of course it is way easier without melees. Coming from 25man raiding it is actually pretty funny having easily half the raid clumped up in melee range. In 10 man I can at least see everything pretty easy but then again I am playing a ranged there.
    One of the best things to do for a ranged chained to a melee is trying to stay ahead of the melee instead of trying to walk behind him - the melee will try to stay behind the mobs but if the tank moves out of amethyst pools or a cobalt trap he will usually try to avoid falling behind andwill likely try to run forward as he wants to deal damage after all. At least I am rather thankful if a ranged does that...

  13. #13
    A ranged standing ahead (i'm assuming you mean ahead of the dogs, close to the tank), risks extra pools and mines surrounding the tank, which could very well cause the tank much more dismay than if the mine were behind the dog.

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