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  1. #1

    Assassination rotation. Need help!

    Hello there!
    Been searching around on google, yt, woweurope and here for a couple of hours and haven't really gotten the exact answers I want to be able to maximize my dps, as it seems right now that I'm a bit low on dps during raids. Kinda rerolled this expansion from my druid, so I don't have alot of experience in the "Rogue area" ^^.

    Armory page: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...osiepaw/simple
    Feng the accursed dps: About 43-46k DPS during the encounter, more during bursts etc ofc.

    Rotation from engage: Shadowstep -> Ambush -> vandetta -> Mutilate(if needed for 5cp) -> Rapture(5cp) -> Shadow blade -> Mutilate(Minimum of 2cp, often more cus of shadow blade) -> SnD -> 5cp mutilate -> envenom.

    Continue the abow and do Envenom as often as I can on 5cp, and ofc keeping rapture and SnD up.

    Questions:
    1: I've read about 4cp envenom's to keep the buff up, and I've been "stuck"(energy starved) so many times on 4cp, waiting for a fifth that I'm wondering if it's worth doing Envenom's on 4cp?
    2: Noxxic(I don't really trust that site too 100%) States Crit -> haste while EJ states Haste -> Crit. Which one is accurate?
    3: Snapped up the word "Energy pooling". Is that something that we still use?
    4: Anyone have any tip? I see rogues at 50-60k some fights with kinda the same gear :/.

    I hope someone can help me Thanks in advance!
    And sorry for my English, it's not my mother tongue.

    //Rosiepaw

  2. #2
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Mutilate to 5CP, Rupture, Muti late, SnD, Vendetta+Shadowblade, Mutilate 5cp Envenom. Keep up Rupture, Envenom will keep up SnD. Use Dispatch on proc.

    I haven't studied tediously for several hours over this, I just used what I think works.

    I don't use Ambush, because Mutilate beats it in so many ways.
    I use Vendetta+Shadowblades together because usually CD's stacked works better.
    No need to 5CP SnD because Envenom will refresh it.

    As I said, this probably isn't perfect.

  3. #3
    The Patient Matutin's Avatar
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    I go like this:

    Shadowstep, Ambush, Slice and Dice, Mutilate, Mutilate, Either Mutilate or Dispatch (if procs), Macro with trinket, racial, pot and Vendetta, Rupture (5cp), Shadow Blades, Mut or Dispatch till 5CP, then pull energy as much as I can before SnD runs off and then Envenom just before SnD falls off.

    Keep in mind that I didnt play mut much, only a few times.

    I dont know if Rupture uses the buffs and stats at the time of the cast (like Sub one) or updates with buffs (like Combat one with the Insights).

    I've read that the way to go is always 5CP Rupture and then use a few Envenoms in between, 3CP+ before 35%HP then 5CP only.
    My Rogue

    Veni, vidi, vici.

    I like MoP now c:

  4. #4
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matutin View Post
    I go like this:

    Shadowstep, Ambush, Slice and Dice
    Wouldn't you go Rupture at 5CP then 1/2CP SnD because if you use Slice n Dice straight after your opening attack your in danger of capping energy due to Shadow Focus?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    Wouldn't you go Rupture at 5CP then 1/2CP SnD because if you use Slice n Dice straight after your opening attack your in danger of capping energy due to Shadow Focus?
    SnD uptime > ~5energy. Like it or not, SnD is a make-or-break ability for all specs we have right now.

    I haven't been following assassination openings well enough, but last I saw Ambush wasn't on the list; mut for 2 poison applications or garrote for the bleed into VW were being compared.

  6. #6
    I open with Garrote, personally, and I prioritize getting SnD up over Rupture at the start. The only reason we want Rupture is for the energy regen. It isn't really a direct damage increase. And we get that energy regen from Garrote.

    So I open like so: Garrote -> Mutilate -> SnD -> Vendetta / Shadow Blades -> Mutilate / Dispatch to 5cp -> Rupture -> 5cp -> Envenom

    Works great, at least from my anecdotal perspective. And as far as I know, Rupture is affect by Vendetta at the very least. After your opening it gets pretty mind blowningly easy. The only timer you have to watch at this stage of the game is Rupture. Keep it up. It's your source of energy. SnD will be refreshing itself with Envenoms. In regards to the Envenom buff... If you aren't using Shadow Blades, you won't often be clipping your Envenom buff. We just don't have fast enough energy regen at this point. Occasionally you'll get a couple lucky procs in a row, but it isn't the norm. On the flip side though with Shadow Blades active you will frequently be clipping Envenom buff. Do you best to space out your Envenom's enough to minimize that.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  7. #7
    The Patient Matutin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutix View Post
    Wouldn't you go Rupture at 5CP then 1/2CP SnD because if you use Slice n Dice straight after your opening attack your in danger of capping energy due to Shadow Focus?
    Well you may be right. But im wondering whats the dps loss of having about 5-6 secs without SnD.

    Lets say you open with Ambush, then Mutilatex2 or Mutilate+Dispatch, that would put you in 5CP in about 2GDC after you open, then you need a 3rd GDC to cast Rupture, that would leave you in about 35-40 energy (energy regen + relentless strikes). Then you would need to pull to 60 to cast Mutilate once again and pull to 25 to cast SnD.... But I didnt had VW into account...
    My Rogue

    Veni, vidi, vici.

    I like MoP now c:

  8. #8
    Open from stealth with Mutilate, use Rupture straight away with the combo points you got, Mutilate again, use Slice and Dice, from there on make sure you have a 100% uptime on Rupture if you can with 5 combo points only (refresh at 0.1-2 seconds so you don't lose a tick) and Envenom with 5 combo points if everything else is rolling.

    Currently killing Elegon so I can't write a more detailed post. After our raids I'll make a bigger post.
    Bovan.9481
    Completed legendaries: Twilight, Sunrise (Eternity), Bolt, Frostfang, The Juggernaut, Howler.
    Current projects: Incinerator, ascended medium armor.

  9. #9
    The Patient Mutix's Avatar
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    I look forward to it.

  10. #10
    Thanks for the awsome posts
    Seems tho that I'm doing everything correcly, from what I've read now.
    Tho I'm killing Gara'jal the spiritbinder atm and can max out 52k dps. Often tho as low as 45-47k :/

    With lucky crits and 100% not going down in the spiritworld I'm at 50 atleast.

    Seen combat rogues going up to 70 on this boss. Is assi so much weaker?

  11. #11
    I open Feng as such:

    (Shadow Focus, Shadowstep, Anticpation)

    Tank countdown from 7 because invocation mage
    Tricks on Tank (this will be dps later)
    Prepot
    Stealth
    Sprint or Shadowstep into position

    Ambush
    S+D
    Muti
    Rupture
    Pool a few seconds
    Vendetta
    Shadow Blades
    Trinket

    Cycle mutilates and envenoms, always doing five point finishers during this burn phase. Prioritize 5 envenom, and vanish -> ambush with low combo points. A large number of blindside procs during this phase seems to make a pretty big difference.


    I haven't tried C yet outside of dogflurry fight. My C weapon is like three and a half tiers behind my dagger.

  12. #12
    Nobody else a Garrote fan, eh?
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  13. #13
    dont have time for a full explanation but saw some things in people post that I should comment

    Rupture is key to assas rotation get it up immediately

    Open with Mut not ambush

    Dont just use dispatch when it procs be sure you are not wasting the CP

    Garrote will lower your dps but has situational defensive uses

    One more thing probably goes with out saying but always have deadly poisoin up

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    Nobody else a Garrote fan, eh?
    Garrote no longer stacks with Rupture for VW and is inferior. Garrote ticks every 3s, while Rupture ticks every 2s. Garrote damage is pretty shitty too.

    Assuming Shadow Focus and Anticipation, the ideal opener is this:

    Mut (not Ambush)
    Rupture
    Mut
    SnD
    Mut/Dp (proc) to 5CP or until SnD runs low
    Envenom

    From there:

    Mut/Dp (proc) above 35%
    Dp below 35%
    Keep SnD up via Env
    Keep Rupture up with w/e CP you have
    5CP Env
    Pool energy before using Env so you can land your builders inside the Env buff
    Don't clip Env. Ever

    Once you get a feel for it, you can do some fancy things with Anticipation for Rupture and Envenom uptime. It's a fun spec with a lot of finesse.

    EDIT: The reason you open with Mut and not Ambush: Mut has 2 chances to proc poisons, a 30% chance to proc Blindside, and does comparable damage.
    Last edited by Squirl; 2012-10-09 at 09:20 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter123 View Post
    Rupture is key to assas rotation get it up immediately
    Rupture isn't key to assassination rotation. Energy regeneration is.

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter123 View Post
    Open with Mut not ambush
    Link to proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter123 View Post
    Dont just use dispatch when it procs be sure you are not wasting the CP
    With anticipation, how do you waste CP from dispatch? I don't think I've ever had 9 combo points and felt the urge to dispatch before spending some.

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter123 View Post
    Garrote will lower your dps but has situational defensive uses
    Link to proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter123 View Post
    One more thing probably goes with out saying but always have deadly poisoin up
    It goes without saying. It's impossible to not have deadly poison up on your target, unless you didn't actually apply poison before the fight started.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Garrote no longer stacks with Rupture for VW and is inferior. Garrote ticks every 3s, while Rupture ticks every 2s. Garrote damage is pretty shitty too.
    I know they don't double tick. I didn't realize Garrote was a 3s tick as opposed to a 2s one though. That's a pretty big difference.
    Last edited by NonMagical; 2012-10-09 at 09:20 PM.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    Nobody else a Garrote fan, eh?
    Do not garrote.

    Open with Mut not ambush
    Did they fix the bug where shadow focus was not applying to mutilate?

    Even without, I'm not sure if was clear. The ambush is more damage, but I'm pretty sure the possible blindside proc would push mutilate ahead. But again, have you verified that mutilate costs 0 energy while stealthed and specced shadow focus?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 09:23 PM ----------

    Re: Garrote
    Quote Originally Posted by NonMagical View Post
    Link to proof?
    When you are stealthed, your openers (and in theory all of your moves, but definitely your openers) cost 0 energy. So your choice is between:

    2 combo points and strong burst damage (ambush). Three combo points if you crit.
    2 combo points, three if you crit (critting is much more likely, only one of two hits has to crit), and moderate damage PLUS a chance to proc blindside (mutilate- probably the best choice if it really is free again)
    1 combo point and a weak as hell dot


    No link required.
    Last edited by Verain; 2012-10-09 at 09:23 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Did they fix the bug where shadow focus was not applying to mutilate?
    I've never run into this bug. SF has always worked with Mut for me.

    Are you using a /startattack Mut macro on your stealth bar? If so, if your autoattack lands before the Mut, you will be taken out of stealth, lose SF, and Mut will cost energy. Make sure you just have a standard Mut on your stealth bar (or a PP macro: free gold).

  18. #18
    Oh, I will also point out that the damage gain from getting up slice or rupture first isn't going to make or break much. Given that both will be up within the first few seconds, you would be best trying to figure out whether the benefit of faster melee attacks will matter for two seconds, or whether the extra venomous wounds proc will matter- but ultimately, neither is that huge. If I end up with three combo points on my opener, I rupture first. I haven't mathed that, but it seems reasonable. I want the smallest possible slice to start with, after all. But mostly I start with slice because it seems like a full rupture makes that entire burst cycle cleaner. Again, haven't mathed it.

  19. #19
    With that logic though it really doesn't matter how you open. +/- 50k damage is an increase or decrease of your dps over a 5 minute fight by theoretical 0.2% (assuming you do 60k). It all evens out with RNG in the end.
    Last edited by NonMagical; 2012-10-09 at 09:34 PM.
    "Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps." -Ghostcrawler 3/22/2009
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15864857264&pageNo=4&sid=1#66

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Oh, I will also point out that the damage gain from getting up slice or rupture first isn't going to make or break much. Given that both will be up within the first few seconds, you would be best trying to figure out whether the benefit of faster melee attacks will matter for two seconds, or whether the extra venomous wounds proc will matter- but ultimately, neither is that huge. If I end up with three combo points on my opener, I rupture first. I haven't mathed that, but it seems reasonable. I want the smallest possible slice to start with, after all. But mostly I start with slice because it seems like a full rupture makes that entire burst cycle cleaner. Again, haven't mathed it.
    Yes, the impact of your opener is very small on your overall DPS. That doesn't mean you should do it wrong.

    The impact is so small that the goal should be to get your rotation going as quickly as possible. The extra energy from VW procs is very important for this. SnD is not as immediately important anymore because DP no longer stacks, nor does Env require it. I find just 1-2 VW procs in the first few seconds makes the transition to my sustained rotation much smoother and quicker. Without them, it becomes very difficult to Env, especially at 5CP, before my initial SnD falls off. If SnD does fall off, you're looking at a noticeable impact on your DPS.

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