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  1. #81
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Nope, 50% increase in salary plus doubling the number of teachers.

    1.5 * 2 = 3x as much spent on education.
    Pardon, I thought you meant tripling the amount spent per teacher.

    But if doubling the amount spent on teachers as a group is what it takes to lower the teacher:student ratio, then I wholeheartedly endorse it.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Pardon, I thought you meant tripling the amount spent per teacher.

    But if doubling the amount spent on teachers as a group is what it takes to lower the teacher:student ratio, then I wholeheartedly endorse it.
    How about looking into why educational quality is so low before deciding "throwing money at them" is the way to solve it?

    If you have evidence to suggest it is, I'll listen.

    All research I've found suggests that even Finland, the country with the highest education quality, pays comparable salaries to US teachers.

    I don't think money is the problem.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    How about looking into why educational quality is so low before deciding "throwing money at them" is the way to solve it?
    Why? Because there are thirty four students per teacher on average in this country. That is -the- primary reason for low educational quality.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Why? Because there are thirty four students per teacher on average in this country. That is -the- primary reason for low educational quality.
    I amended my post.

    Finland pays their teachers no more than the US does while spending less per student and maintaining the #1 education system in the world.

    So they spend less per student and get more out. Find out why, because the answer is clearly not "money".

  5. #85
    The U.S. needs more schools like Cristo Rey
    When people work a bit for their education, they're much more personally invested in it

  6. #86
    Banned This name sucks's Avatar
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    I graduated last year and the last 5 years of high school where everyone decided for some reason that "omg its sooooo hard!!!!1!!!", were a complete and absolute waste of time with the exception of precalc and calc. 90% of the time I was there and wasn't skipping I was just twiddling my thumbs staring at the clock wishing I could be learning something useful.

    I skipped as much as I legally could (25%) and still graduated with a 92% in the meaningful subjects (math). In the time I spent skipping I took online college courses and taught myself c# and python.

    Unfortunately I live in a horrible horrible desolate place with the nearest city with a pop of more than 50k being 400km away (edmonton for you other canadians) so this might be an isolated example of living in a hick area where nobody gives a shit about education, including teachers.

    Im pretty pleased with my decision.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I amended my post.

    Finland pays their teachers no more than the US does while spending less per student and maintaining the #1 education system in the world.

    So they spend less per student and get more out. Find out why, because the answer is clearly not "money".
    Most likely cultural differences - not to mention Finland's educational system is not comprehensive. Furthermore, systems that may work in a country of five and a half million may not work in a country of almost three hundred and twenty million.

    Still, Finland's teacher to student ratio is very low. 1 teacher to 19 students, versus 1 to 34 in the US.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Most likely cultural differences - not to mention Finland's educational system is not comprehensive. Furthermore, systems that may work in a country of five and a half million may not work in a country of almost three hundred and twenty million.

    Still, Finland's teacher to student ratio is very low. 1 teacher to 19 students, versus 1 to 34 in the US.
    They spend less per pupil than the United Sates. Significantly less.

    And I'm against Federalization due to the fact that the states better know what their people need than the Federal Government. You're either in the camp with Wells, who believes Federal institutions can be scaled effectively or you're with me who believes they're better handled at the state level.

    You don't get to just say that a system should be handled at the Federal level in a way that's far less effective than a proven other example. You seem to think we should take a far less efficient and less effective route at the federal level because we're not Finland.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    They spend less per pupil than the United Sates. Significantly less.

    And I'm against Federalization due to the fact that the states better know what their people need than the Federal Government. You're either in the camp with Wells, who believes Federal institutions can be scaled effectively or you're with me who believes they're better handled at the state level.

    You don't get to just say that a system should be handled at the Federal level in a way that's far less effective than a proven other example. You seem to think we should take a far less efficient and less effective route at the federal level because we're not Finland.
    I believe they should be administered at the state level, but funded federally. It makes no sense that a school in Texas should get less funding than a school of the same size in Rhode Island.

    The reason for this is the federal government simply has a much vaster pool of income from which to draw.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    It makes no sense that a school in Texas should get less funding than a school of the same size in Rhode Island.
    Different things cost different amounts of money in different states.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    Different things cost different amounts of money in different states.
    True, but the current system just gives Republican states excuses to underfund their schools.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    True, but the current system just gives Republican states excuses to underfund their schools.
    Citation needed

  13. #93
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    Citation needed
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75S0P120110629
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  14. #94
    I was just hired recently and have begun a new job at a semi-urban middle school. Some food for thought.

    1. I'm in disbelief by the lack of overall support from parents.
    2. Teacher unions - they have an extremely negative sound. I'm a part of my union because it's my insurance in case a student accuses me of something and I have to defend myself in court.
    3. Teachers work really, really hard. This is my first year and I'm young enough looking to fit in with the high school students next door. I haven't found a person in my building who isn't staying after hours, calling parents, planning awesome things to do in class, etc.

    We need to get back to supporting teachers.

  15. #95
    Bloodsail Admiral Decagon's Avatar
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    If possible, I'd increase teacher salaries by a huge amount, and not give teachers tenure. Also, I'd hire more teachers so that the average class size isn't 45 in my school anymore. I have a class that quite literally can't legally stay in the room, we have to go to the auditorium to conduct class. This being Utah, btw, which has the lowest funding per pupil, so it's probably just a massive extreme.

  16. #96
    Have you considered the fact that Texas is within the national average in graduation rates?

  17. #97
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizo View Post
    Have you considered the fact that Texas is within the national average in graduation rates?
    http://www.all4ed.org/about_the_cris...ls/state_cards

    False. National rate is 72%. Texas' is 67%.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    http://www.all4ed.org/about_the_cris...ls/state_cards

    False. National rate is 72%. Texas' is 67%.
    False. Read the actual report. http://www.tea.state.tx.us/acctres/DropComp_2010-11.pdf

  19. #99
    I see nothing in that article to suggest the schools are underfunded.

    Simply removing money from a school doesn't automatically mean it's underfunded.

  20. #100
    As a current high school student (Senior), with an average class size of 30+ I personally would find it greatly beneficial to have a lower ratio between students and teachers.
    Sitting in a Physics C class with an average of 33-35 people in it is not conducive to learning from personal experience.

    Also, I wouldn't be against raising the amount that teacher's get paid, as said by Minqz teacher's do work hard, and I agree with this, the teachers I personally know at the school I attend, all are very hard working and actually care about their students learning, and educational career.

    That being said, I haven't really researched this topic that much, so what I'm stating are just observations and opinions.

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