Reform the school system - How would you do it?

[Minqz]

As a current high school student (Senior), with an average class size of 30+ I personally would find it greatly beneficial to have a lower ratio between students and teachers.
Sitting in a Physics C class with an average of 33-35 people in it is not conducive to learning from personal experience.

Also, I wouldn't be against raising the amount that teacher's get paid, as said by Minqz teacher's do work hard, and I agree with this, the teachers I personally know at the school I attend, all are very hard working and actually care about their students learning, and educational career.

Good post. I don't agree with teachers getting paid anymore because we live comfortably and we get our summers off. While slightly underpaid, I'm more worried about my students parents getting a job in this economy than I am having a 2% raise.

That being said, I haven't really researched this topic that much, so what I'm stating are just observations and opinions.

[Politicus]

Good post. I don't agree with teachers getting paid anymore because we live comfortably and we get our summers off. While slightly underpaid, I'm more worried about my students parents getting a job in this economy than I am having a 2% raise.

As a teacher, what would you think about switching from having summer breaks to having a sort of system where the school is year round, but with a week break every couple of weeks (And of course, keep Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc breaks the same as now)

[Minqz]

As a teacher, what would you think about switching from having summer breaks to having a sort of system where the school is year round, but with a week break every couple of weeks (And of course, keep Christmas, Thanksgiving, etc breaks the same as now)

I believe it would be more beneficial to the modern-day parents. With both parents working, it can be difficult for them to find a place for their child to be for 3 months. Remember, our current system hasn't evolved out of the old where the men were needed during the summer to work. That simply isn't the case anymore.

However, there is something very nostalgic to our current system. I couldn't imagine my childhood without them. I personally hope we don't change, but can see why we would.

[Laize]

EDIT: I fucked up. wrong thread. I'll come back to this.

[SirPiken]

Realize that some kids are dumb, and stop driving the pace of learning at the speed of the slowest car. Stop acting like everyone needs or should go to College.

[Garnier Fructis]

Get rid of tenure. Plain and simple. Far too many poor teachers who've been allowed to continue simply because they've been doing a shit job for a long time.

Tenure is a double edged sword. At the High School I attended, our principle had an axe to grind against a couple of teachers who happened to be the best teachers in their subjects. Absence of tenure also means that good teachers can be dismissed for stupid reasons.

[Laize]

Tenure is a double edged sword. At the High School I attended, our principle had an axe to grind against a couple of teachers who happened to be the best teachers in their subjects. Absence of tenure also means that good teachers can be dismissed for stupid reasons.

They're still protected under federal employment rights. Those don't go away just because tenure does.

Tenure is an all-around bad idea.

[Zhangfei]

The Finland example that Laize posted made me laugh - they don't spend as much per student because they don't have to, they have national healthcare and guaranteed healthy food (so healthier and happier students) and a lot more respect for teachers, three things that would blatantly and obviously improve the American education system.

Europe, as a whole, far outstrips America because the students are in a much better place. Investing in these things raises human capital like crazy. It's the only way America will compete with China and India now she can't rely upon constantly hiring specialists from abroad like the past.

[inboundpaper]

Stop romanticizing the shit out of college, this was high school for me: HOLY SHIT YOU NEED TO BE READY FOR COLLEGE, NO WE WON'T TEACH YOU ANYTHING ABOUT LIFE AFTER HIGH SCHOOL, GO TO COLLEGE.

[Hyve]

And don't give me that 'real world knowledge versus academic knowledge' tripe. Academic knowledge is what makes the world go round.

I'm not going to get into an argument about this, but I totally disagree.

Intelligence is not the ability to recite academic dribble, but the ability to create opportunities and success for yourself. I've met hundreds, if not thousands of people who are "Academically Intelligent" and are poor and worthless. Anyone can be taught that intelligence, you're two a penny. I've only met a handful of people who I can rely on to build me businesses and real income.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 11:24 AM ----------

Realize that some kids are dumb, and stop driving the pace of learning at the speed of the slowest car. Stop acting like everyone needs or should go to College.

I agree totally. There are roles in society that require education, I've never denied that (Doctors are a prime example), but if we must force people into the education system, move at the pace of the fastest, not the slowest. Don't hold back success people some people can't aspire to it, leave the losers at the bottom.

[Enemy of the State]

I don't know how best to run our schools. Nobody knows. Which is why I'd abolish the whole government run system. We're still using a method of education from the 19th century, meant to prepare people for labor in factories. This is because education is centrally planned. Government, as always, can't keep up with the times. Education is just another service, which should be provided by the market. Who knows what different kinds of schools we could have. Would the traditional classroom model even continue to exist? I'd certainly like to find out.

[Kivimetsan]

You cant solve the public education system. I love how government is always trying to fix its mistakes like education and healthcare reform... why couldn't you get it right in the first place?

I would institute a gradual reform into private education. All families capable of sending kids to private school (unless the kid is already in a public school) will have to send there kid to a private school. This will be followed by a tax break for the family equal to the education cost (I want taxes at 0% anyway, so this works well).
Families who cannot afford private education will continue to receive public education. Ones who cannot afford private and are not in school yet will receive handouts from both government and private charities to send there kids to private schools. Eventually the cost of private education will be so low that all families can send there kids to private school, as they will not be burdened by taxation or inflation (id close the central bank).

Along with the reparation of the economy and minimal taxes (besides a general sales tax of 15%), families will never remember public education, aka government indoctrination facilities.

Also, if the unions protest, id just fire them all and exile them on a deserted island full of raging snapping turtles.

[Didactic]

I'm not going to get into an argument about this, but I totally disagree.

Intelligence is not the ability to recite academic dribble, but the ability to create opportunities and success for yourself. I've met hundreds, if not thousands of people who are "Academically Intelligent" and are poor and worthless. Anyone can be taught that intelligence, you're two a penny. I've only met a handful of people who I can rely on to build me businesses and real income.

For starters, there are many difference facets of intelligence. Business acumen is only one of these, and in the long run a poor second to academia. Business acumen doesn't record and analyse historical trends in order to prevent stupid mistakes in the future. Business acumen does not interpret the law. Business acumen does not make leaps and bounds in the fields of science and physics.

The type of learning you are referring to is rote learning, which is a sign of ability to memorize, not intelligence. Intelligence in academic terms is the ability to think critically; and it is known that this skill is possessed in greater part by social and natural science majors than business majors.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:10 AM ----------

You cant solve the public education system. I love how government is always trying to fix its mistakes like education and healthcare reform... why couldn't you get it right in the first place?

I would institute a gradual reform into private education. All families capable of sending kids to private school (unless the kid is already in a public school) will have to send there kid to a private school. This will be followed by a tax break for the family equal to the education cost (I want taxes at 0% anyway, so this works well).
Families who cannot afford private education will continue to receive public education. Ones who cannot afford private and are not in school yet will receive handouts from both government and private charities to send there kids to private schools. Eventually the cost of private education will be so low that all families can send there kids to private school, as they will not be burdened by taxation or inflation (id close the central bank).

Along with the reparation of the economy and minimal taxes (besides a general sales tax of 15%), families will never remember public education, aka government indoctrination facilities.

Also, if the unions protest, id just fire them all and exile them on a deserted island full of raging snapping turtles.

Thankfully you aren't in charge, then. You cannot run a country without taxes, and private schools offer no tangible benefit over public schools save that their pools of funds from which to draw is larger.

Sales taxes punish the poor and middle classes, so no.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:11 AM ----------

I don't know how best to run our schools. Nobody knows. Which is why I'd abolish the whole government run system. We're still using a method of education from the 19th century, meant to prepare people for labor in factories. This is because education is centrally planned. Government, as always, can't keep up with the times. Education is just another service, which should be provided by the market. Who knows what different kinds of schools we could have. Would the traditional classroom model even continue to exist? I'd certainly like to find out.

Not true. 19th century public education was envisaged as a means of eliminating diversity in national populations.

And again, private schools offer no tangible benefits save that they have more money to throw away.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:13 AM ----------

Stop romanticizing the shit out of college, this was high school for me: HOLY SHIT YOU NEED TO BE READY FOR COLLEGE, NO WE WON'T TEACH YOU ANYTHING ABOUT LIFE AFTER HIGH SCHOOL, GO TO COLLEGE.

Hence the need for an apprenticeship system to provide an alternative for the more technically minded.

[Zhangfei]

I'm not going to get into an argument about this, but I totally disagree.

Intelligence is not the ability to recite academic dribble, but the ability to create opportunities and success for yourself. I've met hundreds, if not thousands of people who are "Academically Intelligent" and are poor and worthless. Anyone can be taught that intelligence, you're two a penny. I've only met a handful of people who I can rely on to build me businesses and real income.[COLOR="red"]

Business isn't what makes the world go round. You need lawyers, politicians, doctors, teachers, professors, engineers, scientists to do that and they're all academic professions. Hell, I'm sure I've missed plenty of them.

Even electricians, plumbers and mechanics need a sound grasp of theory to perform their tasks.

And intelligence has NEVER been defined in any defensible way as "creating opportunities." What codswallop. Someone who can remember information within a framework, yes. Someone who can process information quickly, yes. People who can understand situations and motivations, absolutely. Not this. It has zero connection to actual thought processes.

I agree totally. There are roles in society that require education, I've never denied that (Doctors are a prime example), but if we must force people into the education system, move at the pace of the fastest, not the slowest. Don't hold back success people some people can't aspire to it, leave the losers at the bottom.

People learn at very different rates and start excelling at different rates. Cutting a 14yr old out of a system when he starts peaking at 16 is unjust and unfair.

There are dumb people and we absolutely do not need everyone to go to university, but a solid education for every child up to the age of adulthood is what any good state should offer.

Edit: Kivimetsan, you make me chuckle with your outdated and absurdist theories from the 18th century that have been proven to not work.