Page 4 of 11 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Thanks Arielle, much appreciated.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Griz66 View Post
    Maybe you did not read what I posted. We were able to two heal the first two bosses because of the self healing FR provided me. Im not saying I carried the raid, not at all but without going this spec this was not possible. That is one example of why following Sejta's spec makes since... In normal and in heroic content right now.

    This is not cata, we arnt following someone that has cleared all the heroics and constantly changes his gear each boss and reforges and regems... his gear was reforged like this on night one, doing normal 10 man. Its differnt than saying "OMG YOUR STAMINA STACKING IN NORMAL!??! U CANT BE LIKE SEJTA, HE IS DOING HEROICS, THATS WHY HE IS STAMINA STACKED!!! WRAWRA WRA THIS ISNT CATA" ... Which I heard in Cata all the time, even tho I stamina stacked some fights in heroic DS mainly because of impales and such, it would be one thing if we had a million variables but right now its simple... Druids need rage for FR and SD.. The Dodge and mastery you can attain by gear/gems/reforging are poop no matter how you slice it. Making SD and FR the abosolute best abilites we have. Without hit/exp caped and without the crit I am rocking I would never be able to attain the rage needed to keep these cooldowns active.

    Dont murder the kittens tho =/ Do some research and try it out, I bet you will find it works much better than the average guide out right now. I guess if its not broke dont fix it thats all I can say.
    The very fact you're talking about being exp capped seems to imply you need to do research. I sincerely doubt you have the 5k+ expertise needed to never have an attack parried or dodged.

    Also I don't think you what my stance is, the first fight(Stone Guards) is optimal for full regen(exp/hit/crit) because so much damage is undodgable. There's not even a good reason to two-heal feng and stone guards as neither have particular pertinent soft or hard enrage timers.

    In a perfect world where healers never make mistakes and dps never take extra damage that causes healer distraction(amethyst pools) stamina is the best but mastery, for example, assuming it's physical damage that is mitigated by armor, provides TTL, not as much as stamina but you also take far less damage overall.

    Also please take into account that paragon and the other top guilds were practicing hard mode mechanics during the 1st week of normals and they were all geared for heroics and may or may not have been optimal for normals.

    Point is, so far, Stone Guards is the only fight where stamina has remotely the same value as the alternate gearing strategy. Every other fight in Vaults does not feature a particularly large amount of unavoidable tank damage and therefore nearly all fights where you balance crit/mast.

  3. #63
    I've been having quite a few conversations about Savage Defence vs Frenzied Regen. Well of course it depends so I've done some breakdown and even worked on finding your breaking point when Savage Defence becomes better based on gear and how much incoming is actually "dodgable".

    theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/savage-defence-vs-frenzied-regen.html

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by TheeTova View Post
    I've been having quite a few conversations about Savage Defence vs Frenzied Regen. Well of course it depends so I've done some breakdown and even worked on finding your breaking point when Savage Defence becomes better based on gear and how much incoming is actually "dodgable".

    theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/savage-defence-vs-frenzied-regen.html
    I have to say I've been using Frenzied Regen far more than i thought i would be at the start of MOP and for me seems to be far better than Savage Defense for most of the fights in Mogu'shan Vaults so far. I heal myself for 300k+ with Frenzied Regen very often which is just amazing; compared to 6 seconds of high dodge chance. Even if it is a fight with a lot of dodgeable damage I tend to use Frenzied regen over Savage Defense in most situations. I do make use of Savage Defense as I have enough rage income to keep a decent up time on Savage defense (but no where near the 66% theoretical max) and enough generated for a 60 rage FR within a second after hitting SD. I never to use SD unless I have nearly full rage because I always want to have enough to spend on FR for a decent heal if I take a spike in damage. I have to agree that going balls out crit>exp>hit seems to be the way to go at least for me; I do as much or more healing than our Blood DK with FR thanks to the huge amount of rage income from prioritizing stats this way. I kinda think they need to change SD to make it a little more attractive to use maybe with higher gear getting close to 100% dodge chance with it up might make it more worth while on fights with high avoidable damage, but as it is without gemming/reforging for dodge with SD going your lucky to hit 60% dodge. While 60% sounds pretty impressive it's by no means a guaranteed 6 seconds of not getting melee damage and FR is a guaranteed massive heal and damn near spam-able.
    Last edited by Longrod Vonhugendong; 2012-10-16 at 06:50 AM.

  5. #65
    Well, a quick aside to a response to one of my previous posts, I think there was some confusion about my thoughts of stamina. Simply put, I think stamina plays a bigger role for druid than other tanks since our active mitigation is purely RNG, but that doesn't mean I think it's the highest priority on every fight. We only have 6 raid bosses (Sha/Galleon excluded), and while 6 bosses doesn't really give the full picture as to what's better more often, we do have encounters out of the 6 that are extreme polar opposites in terms of what a Guardian would want for survival and what abilities we'd want to use.

    Be that as it may, we don't really have any "tank killer" mechanics in these 6 bosses in MsV. Alright, Garaj will kill us if we don't dispose of our add in a timely fashion, but that's completely avoidable. I'm talking about huge hits that we cannot necessarily avoid that should threaten our lives, or perhaps a sequence that we can avoid but RNG could kill us anyways. Everything thus far is "paper-cut damage," where it's the accumulation of smaller hits that threaten to kill us. Even Elegon's breath attack isn't one huge hit, but several smaller ticks. Beyond maybe a soft enrage, can you honestly point to a mechanic where you systematically use a major tanking CD to survive because you need to?

    In this raiding environment, stamina plays a much lesser role, until those "paper-cuts" accumulate to the point where healer/tank response may not be fast enough or makes you susceptible to spike damage. The only real fight where this is heavily present is heroic Stone Guard (especially since our only guaranteed mitigation tool, i.e. mastery/armor, is basically useless), the other fights don't really threaten Guardian tanks to such an extent. However, I cannot stress enough that we're only 6 bosses into this raiding tier, with many more approaching us quickly that could change the way we want to gear.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  6. #66
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Northern part of Sweden
    Posts
    1,028
    I go with my dps gear mostly.

    So my stats might be other but it works for heroics (not tanked any raids yet).

    Agi/Stam (if I get a 2nd piece of gear I use that for tanking and therefor stacking stam on it).
    Mastery
    Crit
    Hit/Exp
    Haste
    Dodge

    I value dodge that low, because Mastery decrease the damage I take when I don't dodge, and while going the agi/crit/mastery route, I gain dodge and can keep SD up quite much, therfor devaluing dodge alot.

    I had hoped that with monk tanks being in the game, that we could get some tanking leather (with dodge)... doesn't look like it.
    "If you are going to do something, including being an alcoholic, don't half-ass it. /Cheers." - Vezrah, 2012

  7. #67
    I reforged and gemmed away from mastery/stamina into hit/exp cap, then all crit. I have agi/crit shoulder and leg chants, but still rocking LW stam bracer (750 stam outweights 500 agi by a LOT).

    Self-buffed: 500309 hp, 7.49% hit (i know missing 0.1% sucks), 7.59% exp, 35.93% crit in bear form, 84123 armour (59.04% reduction vs 93), 14.12 dodge passive.

    Last stone guard fight, iirc I did around 15 million healing just on frenzied regen. Pretty insane.

    I was using a lot of self-heals rather than some mauls for dps, as it was the first time we got the chains dog, and our healers were suffering a bit while people were learning.

    Also, just throwing this out there: we had a 11% 'wipe' on Feng - all but me tanking, and a holy paladin were dead. The holy pala had 0% mana. We got him down to 4% just ourselves, through 3 more arcane vortex things, thanks to frenzied regen healing.

    IMO the gearing is as follows: aim at least 460k hp unbuffed in bear form, then go hit/exp cap, then crit. Most people will have around 480k hp from gear alone. If your healers can't handle healing you with around 500k hp buffed, they are bad. If you gem/enchant stamina, you will be around 600k hp buffed which is far higher than needed for normal modes, and probably heroic modes too.

  8. #68
    After doing a night of Elegon attempts I'm starting to question the wisdom of not going for Hit/Exp caps first.

    We'll see if this train of thought continues the rest of the week.

  9. #69
    I always seemed to find that stat prio's early on tended to be rather skewed, then when people start to rock heroics stam always seemed to end up being a much more important stat. Dont know why its gone that way, but i have always felt safer with a larger Healthpool, maybe because its an actual visual check of where i am at in the fight. Its seems getting a hit cap and exp cap might be the way to go to at least get decent FR heals, then stamina after that.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Emane View Post
    I go with my dps gear mostly.

    So my stats might be other but it works for heroics (not tanked any raids yet).

    Agi/Stam (if I get a 2nd piece of gear I use that for tanking and therefor stacking stam on it).
    Mastery
    Crit
    Hit/Exp
    Haste
    Dodge

    I value dodge that low, because Mastery decrease the damage I take when I don't dodge, and while going the agi/crit/mastery route, I gain dodge and can keep SD up quite much, therfor devaluing dodge alot.

    I had hoped that with monk tanks being in the game, that we could get some tanking leather (with dodge)... doesn't look like it.
    Just a heads up Emane that I've found that it takes about 2000 mastery rating to get 1% damage reduction against 93s and only about 890 dodge rating to get 1% dodge. That's a huge difference and for me makes mastery A LOT worse that dodge. Though if you're dps more often than not I wouldn't want to lose that mastery.

    As for hit/exp, I hate! not having cap but it's just so much more rage overall for me to go crit and even haste over cap. What I tend to do to get through the frustration of early parries/dodges is maul if I do see lots of misses. Shhh, don't tell my healers!

  11. #71
    Dreadlord Khatix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    801
    What i have been doing is Reforge Hit/Exp-Dodge cap>Crit>Mastery>=Dodge>Haste

    Gem wise

    Red-Agi/Stam
    Blue-Stam
    Yellow-Mast/Stam

    Enc wise Stam/mastery

    I haven't been having any trouble at all.

  12. #72
    I too like my stam! Tanking is managable what ever you're doing atm I find. I've just been tremendously disappointed with mastery after I did the math : (

    Couple notes, if you like exp to dodge cap, you get the same return all the way to parry cap. The other big thing is with having Primal Fury (15 rage more on mangle and auto attack crits) AND bear form giving 50% crit (and haste) rating from gear makes 1 crit rating very valuable.

  13. #73
    Stood in the Fire valiorik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodrayne of Lothar View Post
    What i have been doing is Reforge Hit/Exp-Dodge cap>Crit>Mastery>=Dodge>Haste

    Gem wise

    Red-Agi/Stam
    Blue-Stam
    Yellow-Mast/Stam

    Enc wise Stam/mastery

    I haven't been having any trouble at all.
    How many waves of shards can you kill with agility staking on Elegon? Just curious. I changed to agi tonight myself to try it out because I have problems killing 6th shard on my own and have to yell for help which can be not available. Raid is in 2 hours.. Will see how it will go.

    For crit lovers like myself we go with:
    Red-Exp/Crit
    Blue-Stam/Crit
    Yellow-Crit
    Last edited by valiorik; 2012-10-18 at 04:05 PM.
    91 lvl Elit Alcoholic Ирез

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by valiorik View Post
    For crit lovers like myself we go with:
    Red-Exp/Crit
    Blue-Stam/Crit
    Yellow-Crit
    With my stat weights spread sheet I've gone as far to spit out which gems are best. You're spot on (at least for my gear) with those gems.

    Gem Weights
    Yellow
    Smooth Sun's Radiance (320 Crit) - 13.81
    Deadly Vermilion Onyx (80 Agi/160Crit) - 9.31

    Red
    Crafty Vermilion Onyx (160 Exp/160 Crit) - 9.83
    Deadly Vermilion Onyx (80 Agi/160Crit) - 9.31
    Perfect Delicate Pandarian Garnet (160 Agi) - 4.81

    Blue
    Regal Alexandrite (160 Crit/120 Stam) - 6.91
    Guardian's Imperial Amethyst (160 Exp/ 120 Stam) - 2.92
    Shifting Imperial Amethyst (80 Agi/120 Stam) - 2.40

    The post is at theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/guardian-stat-weights.html for those who would like to see.
    Last edited by TheeTova; 2012-10-18 at 05:36 PM.

  15. #75
    Dreadlord Khatix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    801
    Quote Originally Posted by TheeTova View Post
    With my stat weights spread sheet I've gone as far to spit out which gems are best. You're spot on (at least for my gear) with those gems.

    Gem Weights
    Yellow
    Smooth Sun's Radiance (320 Crit) - 13.81
    Deadly Vermilion Onyx (80 Agi/160Crit) - 9.31

    Red
    Crafty Vermilion Onyx (160 Exp/160 Crit) - 9.83
    Deadly Vermilion Onyx (80 Agi/160Crit) - 9.31
    Perfect Delicate Pandarian Garnet (160 Agi) - 4.81

    Blue
    Regal Alexandrite (160 Crit/120 Stam) - 6.91
    Guardian's Imperial Amethyst (160 Exp/ 120 Stam) - 2.92
    Shifting Imperial Amethyst (80 Agi/120 Stam) - 2.40

    The post is at theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/guardian-stat-weights.html for those who would like to see.
    It's Jagged not Regal for Crit/Stam

  16. #76
    Stood in the Fire valiorik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by TheeTova View Post
    With my stat weights spread sheet I've gone as far to spit out which gems are best. You're spot on (at least for my gear) with those gems.

    Gem Weights
    Yellow
    Smooth Sun's Radiance (320 Crit) - 13.81
    Deadly Vermilion Onyx (80 Agi/160Crit) - 9.31

    Red
    Crafty Vermilion Onyx (160 Exp/160 Crit) - 9.83
    Deadly Vermilion Onyx (80 Agi/160Crit) - 9.31
    Perfect Delicate Pandarian Garnet (160 Agi) - 4.81

    Blue
    Regal Alexandrite (160 Crit/120 Stam) - 6.91
    Guardian's Imperial Amethyst (160 Exp/ 120 Stam) - 2.92
    Shifting Imperial Amethyst (80 Agi/120 Stam) - 2.40

    The post is at theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/guardian-stat-weights.html for those who would like to see.
    You score 160 agi for 4.81 points and 80 agi / 120 stam for 2.4 points. It leaves 120 stamina with 0.01 point value. Why do you give stamina such small priority?
    91 lvl Elit Alcoholic Ирез

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by valiorik View Post
    You score 160 agi for 4.81 points and 80 agi / 120 stam for 2.4 points. It leaves 120 stamina with 0.01 point value. Why do you give stamina such small priority?
    I would assume because once you hit the point where you can't be killed before you or your healers can save your life, stamina is wasted stat points. It's the same thing as spirit for healers, once you can finish the fight with 1% mana left, you have enough spirit and can gem/enchant other stats. You obviously need a buffer, a healer doesn't want 1% mana in case something goes wrong, and you don't want 1% health left after a big burst by the boss. Somewhere between 1% and 30% is the point where you decide that's enough. Then you go crit/dodge/mast, whatever you want to make your survival or dps better (or throughput for healers). If TheeTova is at that point, crit is worth a lot more.

  18. #78
    Yeah, blue is just relative to each other based on the off stats. Personally I weight stam highest but it is subjective. I talk about it at bit in my stat weights post at

    theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/guardian-stat-weights.html

    "The Stam Discussions
    I've not include calculations for stam for the simple fact that it has always been subjective and and variant from druid to druid. My personal option is I love being fat, it works well with my great healers with high throughput and my personal play style. I personally weigh stam higher than agi and now crit but this is something I'm even rethinking with the current raid content."

  19. #79
    Stood in the Fire valiorik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by TheeTova View Post
    Yeah, blue is just relative to each other based on the off stats. Personally I weight stam highest but it is subjective. I talk about it at bit in my stat weights post at

    theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/guardian-stat-weights.html

    "The Stam Discussions
    I've not include calculations for stam for the simple fact that it has always been subjective and and variant from druid to druid. My personal option is I love being fat, it works well with my great healers with high throughput and my personal play style. I personally weigh stam higher than agi and now crit but this is something I'm even rethinking with the current raid content."
    Could you link your bear instead please? Single armory can say more when all your blog posts.
    91 lvl Elit Alcoholic Ирез

  20. #80
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Tova/advanced

    I'm logged out in PvP gear though : ( I won't be able to get in game for a while unfortunately.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •