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  1. #181
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    I did the first 2 bosses in MSV favoring hit/exp/crit. Regemmed for mastery/dodge and changed reforges a bit. I was not that satisfied with the amount of which I could use SD, since I didn't have enough rage. But by asking healer they like that I take less spiky damage that if I would favor the exp/hit. But so probably I could consider staying with this build as regemming/reforging gets bit expensive, considering we are not a high progression guild. Or should I still prefer the "DPS build" for better healing for 2 first bosses in MSV?

    me - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Keket/advanced
    Gara'jal - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/a5vwd...ses&boss=60143
    General logs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/a5vwdpn60nxndpwq/ (first 2 fights are hit cap, and over exp soft cap + crit)

    Any ideas what to change? I know that I need to improve my CD and skill usage lot...
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  2. #182
    I did the first 2 bosses in MSV favoring hit/exp/crit. Regemmed for mastery/dodge and changed reforges a bit. I was not that satisfied with the amount of which I could use SD, since I didn't have enough rage. But by asking healer they like that I take less spiky damage that if I would favor the exp/hit. But so probably I could consider staying with this build as regemming/reforging gets bit expensive, considering we are not a high progression guild. Or should I still prefer the "DPS build" for better healing for 2 first bosses in MSV?
    For normals there's no reason not to run Hit/Exp/Crit/Haste. Nothing hits remotely hard enough to warrant Dodge or Mastery. Correct usage of SD/FR will get you through normals pretty easily.

  3. #183
    Dodge is avoidance, not reduction like armor but reduction in total damage taken. Works in the same way as armor in value per % as well; Both have diminishing returns in game, you need more points to get the next 1% reduction, because both reduce damage taken exponentially.

    If you get hit 100 times for 10k each, you take 1,000,000 damage. With 50% dodge, you take 500,000. With 51% dodge you take 490,000. That is 2% less than 500,000, so 2% less damage your healers need to account for. At 99%, 1% reduction is a 100% reduction in relative damage taken.

  4. #184
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    My healers said that the trouble with myself using my FR or NS+HT or all the combination of both, they do overhealing. As when I see my health drop due to which ever reason I pop a CD or 2 and use my FR, which at 80k+ vengence does pretty nice healing. And when I have healed myself I tend to do it fraction of a second before they manage to get a heal on me, which results in their wasted mana. I know that most probably I should trust the healers, but I dislike sitting at 35% health when what ever next comes may kill me.

    Do you have any suggestion for the healers on how to heal the spike damage I get when I favor DPS stats, rather than avoidance?
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  5. #185
    I use FR almost on cooldown, that means I get lots of smaller heals that have a lower tendency to overheal and smoothens (<-is that a word?) the damage intake. Also use double stamina trinkets for fights with heavy FR usage, this will work wonders on your spiky-ness.
    For reference my bear which favors stamina enchants, can reach bout 600k health raid buffed/flasked for these fights.
    Think of it in terms of "150k fire damage on a 500k health pool vs 150k fire damage a 600k health pool", %drop is lower for the bigger health pool.

    Also I don't use NS+HT, since it can't be macroed into 1 button press (you need to eighter do a castsequence or 2 separate buttons) it can't be really used as a panic button. I got renewal talent instead, hotkeyed on 'numpad +' for easy acess


    Or you could think about glyphing FR. Possibly flawed napkin math:
    Our healers usually do about 40k HPS-ish, considering about 10k HPS of that to be used on raid healing, that leaves 30k hps on tank heal. 30k *40% = ~12k extra healer HPS, 2 healers = 20-24k hps
    Considering bear hps between 15-22k HPS, depending on various factors, it's about a wash for normal content but I'd favor self healing over glyphed.
    Last edited by hexaq; 2012-11-01 at 07:07 AM.

  6. #186
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    So I just should say to the healers that I heal myself and they can take it bit more easier?

    And I do have both stam. trinkets, I had them on, on the 2 first bosses, did the trinket swap and regemming/reforging for Gara'jal. As for NS+HT I have them on separate keybinds, but keep the NS on most of the times (as it won't run out until I use the HT)

    Healing Done for the first 2 bosses: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/a5vwd.../?s=712&e=1138 and http://worldoflogs.com/reports/a5vwd...?s=3798&e=4266

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 03:12 PM ----------

    Also. The agility bonus of an item, worth to try to keep or not? Trying with hit/exp caps > crit/mastery as well on gear + dodge gemming on some sockets. But I don't want to reforge crit/mastery to hit/exp. There are no orange hit/mastery only green one seem to have hit/mastery. Should I replace few pure yellow gems with green ones? (I'm sorry but the gemming and reforging gives me a headache... )

    I took down all my reforged, minus the hast > hit one. Any advice on how can I get hit and exp to 7.5% w/o loosing much crit/mastery? Link to Keket in sig.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-11-01 at 07:24 AM.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by hexaq View Post
    Also I don't use NS+HT, since it can't be macroed into 1 button press (you need to eighter do a castsequence or 2 separate buttons) it can't be really used as a panic button. I got renewal talent instead, hotkeyed on 'numpad +' for easy acess

    #showtooltip Nature's Swiftness
    /run SetCVar("autoUnshift",0)
    /cast nature's swiftness
    /cast healing touch
    /run SetCVar("autoUnshift",1)

    A Real Nature's Swiftness Macro!

    I even show how to work it into clique. I quite often use it for other things rather than healing me to be honest.

  8. #188
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    With present reforges I am somewhat satisfied with the incoming rage and no complaints from healers, so I will my hit/exp > mastery=crit for now.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING
    Moderator of R & D | Open Raid
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by TheeTova View Post
    #showtooltip Nature's Swiftness
    /run SetCVar("autoUnshift",0)
    /cast nature's swiftness
    /cast healing touch
    /run SetCVar("autoUnshift",1)

    A Real Nature's Swiftness Macro!

    I even show how to work it into clique. I quite often use it for other things rather than healing me to be honest.
    O.o so THAT was the solution !

    :happy teary face:

  10. #190
    So more news from the world of bear. Not much discussion has gone on about FR and glyphed or not so, mostly to the credit to thefool808 on EJ, here's some more info.

    Glyph or Unglyphed FR, That Is The Question

    From TheFool808 on EJ

    total healing = t, FR healing percent = p

    t*p = (t - t*p)* .4
    p = .4 - .4p
    1.4p = .4
    p = .4/1.4
    p = 28.57%

    Essentially we're looking at about >28.57% of our healing Unglyphed is better.

    Note in the blog post I extended it to account for your RPS if you're interested in seeing that.

  11. #191
    Essentially we're looking at about >28.57% of our healing Unglyphed is better.
    I mean if we're ignoring things like healer HPS, timing, overheal, etc. then sure.

    That leaves out a TON of variables which are necessary to determine which option is better. Given that FR is used to heal yourself when healers can't heal you in time, that analysis is pretty meaningless since it essentially implies that Unglyphed is only better on Stone Guard (which is completely not true).

  12. #192
    Oh course, I make that kind of disclaimer in the actual blog at the bottom. Of course this is just the math to help understand.

  13. #193
    Grunt lmm0rtal's Avatar
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    ^ This guy above knows what's he talking. Read over the blog, got stunned. What's else is needed ? LOL

    Nature's Swiftness, if i were to choose it for the tier 2 talents. Definitely will be because of the instant rebirth, with glyph.. it's 100% instant rebirth on any raid / party member. Works absolutely nice for certain situations. But then again, the instant healing touch isn't that much of appealing over renewal as a 20% heals only. It's just like a health stone, renewal has 30% scales with Incarnation even more hp gain..

    I'm having a 96.99% uptime on SD / FR after using the spreadsheet. Gemming according to his blogpost link.
    Last edited by lmm0rtal; 2012-11-09 at 08:28 PM.

  14. #194
    Renewal scales with incarnation O.o how does that work?

  15. #195
    Grunt lmm0rtal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Williee View Post
    Renewal scales with incarnation O.o how does that work?
    Sorry.. My bad.. Scales with might of ursoc. Haha!

  16. #196
    This thread has me more confused... What are the "standard" stat weights for Druid Guardians? Icy-Veins says Stam, Agi, Hit (Cap), Crit, Expertise (Cap) and Haste. Is that right? Mastery is off the table now?

  17. #197
    Dreadlord Khatix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javster View Post
    This thread has me more confused... What are the "standard" stat weights for Druid Guardians? Icy-Veins says Stam, Agi, Hit (Cap), Crit, Expertise (Cap) and Haste. Is that right? Mastery is off the table now?
    What i found to work best is Hit/Exp-Soft>Crit>Mastery>Dodge>Haste

    Gem wise

    Red- Crit/Exp
    Blue- Crit/Stam
    Yellow- Crit

    If you need extra health for a fight do it thru trinkets

  18. #198
    Ok i havnt read the whole thread because its much to long but heres my 2 cents:

    Crit 0.0416
    Agi 0.0296
    Dodge 0.0251
    Hit 0.0225
    Exp 0.0225
    Haste 0.0204
    Mastery 0.0109
    Armor 0.0063

    This seems to be the current stat weightings according to those who do the math and ive gone for crit -> hit/exp myself.

    In raid i have ~7.5% hit ~6% exp 45% crit 14% dodge ~88k armor. Healers have no problem healing me, and i find the extra dps from gemming crit can be helpful to the raid (90k dps on will this week). Added extra is extra rage which helps using savage defence on c/d and FR on cd also

  19. #199
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triggy89 View Post
    stamina top prio again? ooo errr?
    Stamina is always technically the highest priority until you get "enough" (Generally, enough is being able to prevent any deaths due do taking multiple attacks within a 2 second period from full health and dieing from it. ATM, for instance, you need to be able to safely take the full 6 attacks from Sha of Fear's Dread Thrash without dieing instantly if you fail to mitigate them all)

    Generally, with tanks, its more up to your healers- in theory, on Stone Guard, Crit/Hit/Expertise are your best stats given that 90% of thier damage comes from thier bleed attacks, allowing you to spam FR for the healing. Of course, if a healer is dedicated to healing you, and wants glyphed FR up 100% uptime, then just get enough rage gen for that, then put the rest into stam/dodge/mastery, whatever floats your healers boat.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodrayne of Lothar View Post
    What i found to work best is Hit/Exp-Soft>Crit>Mastery>Dodge>Haste

    Gem wise

    Red- Crit/Exp
    Blue- Crit/Stam
    Yellow- Crit

    If you need extra health for a fight do it thru trinkets
    I only have LFR experience to go by, but this is working very well for me.

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