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  1. #1

    Your thoughts on classes in PvP

    Just wondering what you guys think needs to be changed to balance PVP out a bit. Just post a bit from each class, or whichever you choose.

    For example.

    Warriors-Too high burst; too much self healing, I feel they are fine in PvE, but for PVP the damage is a little absurd.

    Death Knights-I think they are in a good spot for PvP, obliterate hits a tad too hard, but resilience will fix it! Unholy pumps out an ungodly amount of necrotics.

    Druids-I can't find much too unbalanced about them, they can escape most ccs, but at the same time, their main source of healing can be dispelled by someone like a death knight pretty easily. Balance off healing is pretty high. Feral dps. Just not gonna talk about that. Lol.

    Rogues-Burst damage is INSANE, but they fall off after cooldowns, great for cc, very, very fragile.

    Mage-Insane burst, insane cc, insane stickiness, seems to dominate in most PvP situations. Can be shut down by dispells, and warriors.

    Priest-Shadow does nice damage, pretty good offheals, think they're okay. Disc is a little sub-par in my honest opinion.

    Monks-Well, just not balanced. Windwalker can't be peeled, insane single target pressure, mixed with cooldowns and you're over. It's a new class, obvious with balance. Mistwalker, haven't seen too many, heals aren't insane, pretty hard to get a hold off. I think they're pretty fine.

    Hunters- I'm going to specifically talk about BM. The burst is in my opinion, the literal highest in the game. I've been swept by so many double BM teams, or just BM and healer, seems to be unhealable with their certain cooldowns, and with double deterrance/disengage, VERY hard to stick to. After their cooldowns, they are pretty lackluster , but in most situations, you don't last past them.

    Shaman-run out of mana FAST, problem is, you can hardly stick to one, much like a druid, but waaay more annoying. If their team doesn't win quick, you should pull out a win. Elemental damage is pretty high, easy to shut down though. Enhance is okay, big burst, but after cooldowns, nothing but a nuisance.

    Paladins- Ret does high damage, nice off heals, but VERY squishy. Holy is very powerful, can heal with almost no mana, many cooldowns to cycle, but if caught with no peels/cooldowns, can be taken out pretty easily.

    Warlock-Afflicition is in a really great spot, very nice damage, nice survivability, and the ability to absolutely destroy non healer times. Destro, haven't seen much of it played, but the ones I have, huge burst at times, very hard to CC/manage, and VERY easy to interrupt.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Ive only done Bgs thus far and very very small amounts of arena. Id say my main concerns are

    BM burst is absolutely rediculous, should be toned down so they have less burst but more sustained
    Warrior damage is extreme compared to most other classes
    Warlocks are borderline unkillable while still doing good amounts of dmg

    Every other class/spec Ive noticed has been pretty in line maybe some underpowered. But like I said ive only done a randoms thus far and the skill components of most other players varies greatly.

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Kezotar's Avatar
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    Warriors self healing is easily burstable, if you can't manage that I dunno. Had a level 85 with legendaries that managed to bring me from 100%-0 in 18 seconds? Found that quick, he was a rogue.

    Warriors dmg? High? First of all yes, at start it was, now? No. Firs of all dragons roar is on a 1min cd. It's shit enough that, but that its dmg gets spread around. So say you try it on a hunter that just poped his snake traps.. Enjoy 12k crits lol. Or 2 players with a pet, enjoy 40k crits with cds. But at start it was just but that was because people didn't have pvp resi. Try this at 2k mmr atm, I can swear I haven't seen a single warrior. Maybe som with druid but I guess why (fericious bite 150k as resto) I don't know, you tell me..

    Mage still op with cc, but now as a warrior it's managable to sometimes beat them, even if it's close with our interrupts.

    Feral can no longer BLEEED -> ROOT -> KITE. Thanks second wind, if that wasn't obviously OP.

    Paladin currently shit against us, unles they pop stuff, but our burst is bigger, although never fought a very skilled one.

    Warlock - Depending on the skilled players they're tough with the healing and absorb, but their dmg is fine unless thse 300k chaos bolts spawn.

    Rogue - I hear so much whine, that they suck etc. I had a math at 2,1k mmr yesterday before we dropped a bit ( due to us playing with rank 1 players at 2k mmr..) match lasted I don't know, 15-25 sec. Rogue did the most dmg topping everything. They're bad with bad gear, but once hc weapons and a skilled player they are dangerous. It's not anymore how it used to be in cata for rogues, I guess they got out of shape due to the slacky way to play those times, 40k ambushes haha compared to warriors 6k mortal strike at 85. W/E, still some good rogues that are sick atm.

    Hunter - Dmg is op - don't wanna talk about them. Slightly too op but it's almost fine. Why? They can actually kill something now in arena compared to how it was until now, when did you see a hunter actually being able to kill anything in 2s?


    DK - Sick dmg atm, and healing isn't to joke around with, sac pet for almost 200k heal. They're doing atm fine in arena. Some tweakings, but that counts for eveyone. Some lowering and some buffing.

    Spriest.................. : NERF HEALING. 120-150k flash of lights?? Try playing against rogue spriest. Spriest casting a flash going from 20k- 130-160k. Not sure if crit or not but that's one hell of a sick 1,3 cast time flash of light.. Cast two, add a shield and you're 330k ++ with a absorb shield at 60k.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Warriors self healing is easily burstable, if you can't manage that I dunno. Had a level 85 with legendaries that managed to bring me from 100%-0 in 18 seconds? Found that quick, he was a rogue.

    Warriors dmg? High? First of all yes, at start it was, now? No. Firs of all dragons roar is on a 1min cd. It's shit enough that, but that its dmg gets spread around. So say you try it on a hunter that just poped his snake traps.. Enjoy 12k crits lol. Or 2 players with a pet, enjoy 40k crits with cds. But at start it was just but that was because people didn't have pvp resi. Try this at 2k mmr atm, I can swear I haven't seen a single warrior. Maybe som with druid but I guess why (fericious bite 150k as resto) I don't know, you tell me..

    Mage still op with cc, but now as a warrior it's managable to sometimes beat them, even if it's close with our interrupts.

    Feral can no longer BLEEED -> ROOT -> KITE. Thanks second wind, if that wasn't obviously OP.

    Paladin currently shit against us, unles they pop stuff, but our burst is bigger, although never fought a very skilled one.

    Warlock - Depending on the skilled players they're tough with the healing and absorb, but their dmg is fine unless thse 300k chaos bolts spawn.

    Rogue - I hear so much whine, that they suck etc. I had a math at 2,1k mmr yesterday before we dropped a bit ( due to us playing with rank 1 players at 2k mmr..) match lasted I don't know, 15-25 sec. Rogue did the most dmg topping everything. They're bad with bad gear, but once hc weapons and a skilled player they are dangerous. It's not anymore how it used to be in cata for rogues, I guess they got out of shape due to the slacky way to play those times, 40k ambushes haha compared to warriors 6k mortal strike at 85. W/E, still some good rogues that are sick atm.

    Hunter - Dmg is op - don't wanna talk about them. Slightly too op but it's almost fine. Why? They can actually kill something now in arena compared to how it was until now, when did you see a hunter actually being able to kill anything in 2s?


    DK - Sick dmg atm, and healing isn't to joke around with, sac pet for almost 200k heal. They're doing atm fine in arena. Some tweakings, but that counts for eveyone. Some lowering and some buffing.

    Spriest.................. : NERF HEALING. 120-150k flash of lights?? Try playing against rogue spriest. Spriest casting a flash going from 20k- 130-160k. Not sure if crit or not but that's one hell of a sick 1,3 cast time flash of light.. Cast two, add a shield and you're 330k ++ with a absorb shield at 60k.
    You bring up some great points, as a DK, i find dueling warriors to be harder than ever. (I played a warrior to 2.2k , and recently switched to a DK) pre 5.04, I never had a problem with warriors, after that, totally different story. I found it insanely difficult to kite warriors (Read, near impossible) and in a damage for damage swap, almost impossible to win(disarm and all that) Although, with proper cooldown cycles, either class could win.

    But what generally happens in arena, i focus something that isn't a warrior, due to obvious defences, and disarms and whatnot, try to cc the shit out of the warrior, usually works, and ends up killing his teammate, then to find the warrior, with every cd available, absolutely DESTROYING my partner, whether it be my disc priest, or whatnot. Then in a 1 on 1, i generally seem to lose. I'm not exceptionally geared, but I'm missing only 3 dreadful pieces, bracers, belt, and boots.

    Is this a skill related issue, due to me not having as much time playing a DK? or do warriors just crush Dks now, after years of torment and abuse of barely being able to hang on lol.

  5. #5
    I now get laughed at just for being a rogue. We are like pets... ignored. It's really hard to put so many years into refining techniques, just to become insignificant. We can't DPS well, so we CC and await our CDs. Very disheartening and boring.

  6. #6
    As a moonkin I can survive a lot and kite a lot but my damage is completely crap outside of stacking incarnation/nature's vigil/lunar eclipse with nature's grace. It's so easy to stop me that I have to rely on crappy dots which won't do anything in an arena. Sure I can top damage in a bg and get a few lucky kb's or even outright kill some weaker classes (non hunter/warrior/mage) without healers (forget about engaging a healer alone, they just laugh) but the burst damage just isn't there. I suppose I could pick up heart of the wild and try to get some big fb crits but 6 minute cooldown. Personally given that moonkins are behind in multi target fights in pve even I think dots need a boost. They put out no pressure whatsoever in pvp and that's really all we are allowed to put out with 2.1/2.4 second starfires which is where most of our damage comes from if we are allowed to cast under incarnation/nature's vigil. Way too easy to cc during that tho.... Resto feels nice but I wanna play moonkin damnit >: (.. Oh and as far as hybrid healing... spriest >>> moonkin. Flash heal 1.3 second cast can heal big amounts, proc extra flash heals + renew + pom + shield. 2.3/4 second healing touches, needing to use NS on cc a lot, rejuv easily dispelled with no dispel protection makes me a sad troll (wish i could be a panda)
    Last edited by halfawake; 2012-10-09 at 12:51 AM.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans inboundpaper's Avatar
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Warriors self healing is easily burstable, if you can't manage that I dunno. Had a level 85 with legendaries that managed to bring me from 100%-0 in 18 seconds? Found that quick, he was a rogue.

    Warriors dmg? High? First of all yes, at start it was, now? No. Firs of all dragons roar is on a 1min cd. It's shit enough that, but that its dmg gets spread around. So say you try it on a hunter that just poped his snake traps.. Enjoy 12k crits lol. Or 2 players with a pet, enjoy 40k crits with cds. But at start it was just but that was because people didn't have pvp resi. Try this at 2k mmr atm, I can swear I haven't seen a single warrior. Maybe som with druid but I guess why (fericious bite 150k as resto) I don't know, you tell me..

    Mage still op with cc, but now as a warrior it's managable to sometimes beat them, even if it's close with our interrupts.

    Feral can no longer BLEEED -> ROOT -> KITE. Thanks second wind, if that wasn't obviously OP.

    Paladin currently shit against us, unles they pop stuff, but our burst is bigger, although never fought a very skilled one.

    Warlock - Depending on the skilled players they're tough with the healing and absorb, but their dmg is fine unless thse 300k chaos bolts spawn.

    Rogue - I hear so much whine, that they suck etc. I had a math at 2,1k mmr yesterday before we dropped a bit ( due to us playing with rank 1 players at 2k mmr..) match lasted I don't know, 15-25 sec. Rogue did the most dmg topping everything. They're bad with bad gear, but once hc weapons and a skilled player they are dangerous. It's not anymore how it used to be in cata for rogues, I guess they got out of shape due to the slacky way to play those times, 40k ambushes haha compared to warriors 6k mortal strike at 85. W/E, still some good rogues that are sick atm.

    Hunter - Dmg is op - don't wanna talk about them. Slightly too op but it's almost fine. Why? They can actually kill something now in arena compared to how it was until now, when did you see a hunter actually being able to kill anything in 2s?


    DK - Sick dmg atm, and healing isn't to joke around with, sac pet for almost 200k heal. They're doing atm fine in arena. Some tweakings, but that counts for eveyone. Some lowering and some buffing.

    Spriest.................. : NERF HEALING. 120-150k flash of lights?? Try playing against rogue spriest. Spriest casting a flash going from 20k- 130-160k. Not sure if crit or not but that's one hell of a sick 1,3 cast time flash of light.. Cast two, add a shield and you're 330k ++ with a absorb shield at 60k.
    Sorry stopped reading at 'dragon's roar', though glancing down through the rest of your post you seem to think rogues are godly. Figures.

    My thoughts would be as follows;

    Warriors = s12 rogues in plate, probably in constant state of sexual arousal
    Hunters = 5man dungeon bosses with adds and a broken aggro table
    Hybrid DPS = they keep evading and going back to full health
    Rogues = in need of love, or at least a shoulder to cry on and baseline SHS
    Monks = seem fine, if they're not they probably will be once they gain pvp experience
    Hpalas = not sure, seem very good with pet warriors/hunters
    Resto druids = balanced until they turn into a cat and crit you for 120k
    Discs = the rogue of the healer world
    Everything else = seems fine, nothing unexpected.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Entarium View Post
    Shaman-run out of mana FAST, problem is, you can hardly stick to one, much like a druid, but waaay more annoying. If their team doesn't win quick, you should pull out a win.
    lol how can you run out of mana as Shamna on PvP ??? I play Rshaman and i NEVER go under 50% mana on arena or BG, mana witch you get from WS when some morons atacks you is insane

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
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    I just feel like Plate is shitting on all-nonplate. I play an Affy lock (and I'm getting my Ele shaman up), but while I feel like my damage is in the right place, and my survivability in a lot of situations is great, DK's, Warriors, and Ret's just eat me alive. I know that resil will help, and that plate normally can dominate a clothy, but it feels too much right now. A DK is walking up to me, popping AMS, and killing me through my cooldowns before AMS is down. I'm currently at 13.99% PvP I think, so I know I'm not where I need to be just yet, but still, Obliterate is ridiculous, and Warriors seem to be able to shut down any caster, clothy or not, that they want to, with ease.
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  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfawake View Post
    As a moonkin I can survive a lot and kite a lot but my damage is completely crap outside of stacking incarnation/nature's vigil/lunar eclipse with nature's grace. It's so easy to stop me that I have to rely on crappy dots which won't do anything in an arena. Sure I can top damage in a bg and get a few lucky kb's or even outright kill some weaker classes (non hunter/warrior/mage) without healers (forget about engaging a healer alone, they just laugh) but the burst damage just isn't there. I suppose I could pick up heart of the wild and try to get some big fb crits but 6 minute cooldown. Personally given that moonkins are behind in multi target fights in pve even I think dots need a boost. They put out no pressure whatsoever in pvp and that's really all we are allowed to put out with 2.1/2.4 second starfires which is where most of our damage comes from if we are allowed to cast under incarnation/nature's vigil. Way too easy to cc during that tho.... Resto feels nice but I wanna play moonkin damnit >: (.. Oh and as far as hybrid healing... spriest >>> moonkin. Flash heal 1.3 second cast can heal big amounts, proc extra flash heals + renew + pom + shield. 2.3/4 second healing touches, needing to use NS on cc a lot, rejuv easily dispelled with no dispel protection makes me a sad troll (wish i could be a panda)
    That's a pretty fair assessment I think. If people ignore me then I can do well and put out some pretty solid damage. But other than that I seem to have little option but to dot and kite, which does work to an extent. Using symbiosis on a Warlock for Unending Resolve seems to be mandatory.
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  12. #12
    Field Marshal Nighthawk1027's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tovarish24 View Post
    I just feel like Plate is shitting on all-nonplate.
    This.

  13. #13
    can not agree with what you said about affliction. damage outside of cooldowns is totally non existent. and having high dmg numbers that are totally flat without almost any burst at all wont help in arena when healers can easyly heal it.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
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    The OP ones are:
    BM Hunters
    Warriors
    Destro Warlocks (mainly Chaos Bolt)
    Hybrids with retarded amount of offhealing

    Resto Druids are the best healers by far. Buff Rogues and Disc Priests.
    Heyoo!

  15. #15
    My rank of most overpowered:

    1. Warrior, huge burst, really hard to kill, and stun-silence-stun-silence sequence is completly abusive.
    2. Frost Mages, definetly the spec that requires less skill to kill. Fun in aoes, uninteresting in single target.
    3. Restoration Druid, if not the best healer, definetly druid cc and survivality is too much.
    4. Beast Mastery Hunter, you don't know why, but when you see one you end releasing spirit.
    5. Frost Death Knight, huge damage, snare, and hungering cold.

    The most disappointing:

    1. Discipline Priests, no mana burn and not enough healing. Shields can absorb by a lot, but they seem unable to fill healthbars. The worst healer.
    2. Windwalker Monks, I know, they are the last to lvl up, has less gear, and they need more time to take control of the class, but ftm, they are really disappointing.
    3. Elemental Shaman, free kill.
    4. Moonkin Druids, not even close to their restoration and feral mates and I dislike eclipse mechanic.
    5. Destruction Warlock, I know, Chaos Bolt hits for an absurd amount, but after Chaos Bolt? Nothing. Disappointed because I really liked destruction mechanics, and now is an stupid Pyro-button spec.

    My favorites:

    1. Arcane mage, the spec has changed a lot, now it's extremly fun to play in PvP, well played can do far more damage than frost or fire, and with all the new frost spell defenses (Ice Barrier, Deep Freeze, and Ice Ward, etc) can finally stand a spell lockout.
    2. Affliction warlock, with more resilience DoTs are becoming more effective, I still miss the old ShadowMastery-Ruin, but I like the current affliction.
    3. Holy Priest, nobody can fill healthbars as a holy priest, the most fun of all healers, and 25s Spirit of Redemption is awesome in BGs. Still a bit too fragile in some situations but tendrils and psyfiend are really good tricks.
    4. Enhancement shaman, good damage, good versatility, and can put a lot of pressure on a caster or healer. I really like Ancestral Guidance.
    5. Retribution paladin, same, a solid spec, with decent tricks and damage.
    Last edited by Zoros; 2012-10-10 at 01:56 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezotar View Post
    Warriors self healing is easily burstable, if you can't manage that I dunno. Had a level 85 with legendaries that managed to bring me from 100%-0 in 18 seconds? Found that quick, he was a rogue.

    Warriors dmg? High? First of all yes, at start it was, now? No. Firs of all dragons roar is on a 1min cd. It's shit enough that, but that its dmg gets spread around. So say you try it on a hunter that just poped his snake traps.. Enjoy 12k crits lol. Or 2 players with a pet, enjoy 40k crits with cds. But at start it was just but that was because people didn't have pvp resi. Try this at 2k mmr atm, I can swear I haven't seen a single warrior. Maybe som with druid but I guess why (fericious bite 150k as resto) I don't know, you tell me..

    Mage still op with cc, but now as a warrior it's managable to sometimes beat them, even if it's close with our interrupts.

    Feral can no longer BLEEED -> ROOT -> KITE. Thanks second wind, if that wasn't obviously OP.

    Paladin currently shit against us, unles they pop stuff, but our burst is bigger, although never fought a very skilled one.

    Warlock - Depending on the skilled players they're tough with the healing and absorb, but their dmg is fine unless thse 300k chaos bolts spawn.

    Rogue - I hear so much whine, that they suck etc. I had a math at 2,1k mmr yesterday before we dropped a bit ( due to us playing with rank 1 players at 2k mmr..) match lasted I don't know, 15-25 sec. Rogue did the most dmg topping everything. They're bad with bad gear, but once hc weapons and a skilled player they are dangerous. It's not anymore how it used to be in cata for rogues, I guess they got out of shape due to the slacky way to play those times, 40k ambushes haha compared to warriors 6k mortal strike at 85. W/E, still some good rogues that are sick atm.

    Hunter - Dmg is op - don't wanna talk about them. Slightly too op but it's almost fine. Why? They can actually kill something now in arena compared to how it was until now, when did you see a hunter actually being able to kill anything in 2s?


    DK - Sick dmg atm, and healing isn't to joke around with, sac pet for almost 200k heal. They're doing atm fine in arena. Some tweakings, but that counts for eveyone. Some lowering and some buffing.

    Spriest.................. : NERF HEALING. 120-150k flash of lights?? Try playing against rogue spriest. Spriest casting a flash going from 20k- 130-160k. Not sure if crit or not but that's one hell of a sick 1,3 cast time flash of light.. Cast two, add a shield and you're 330k ++ with a absorb shield at 60k.

    You are insane if you think Warriors damage isn't high them and BM hunters ARE DOMINATING THIS SEASON.

    A warrior with all cd's popped can kill somone faster than anything.

    Fuck my 85 warrior was landing 55k slams in s10 gear (Vicious)

  17. #17


    BM Hunters....nothing wrong at all.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoros View Post
    My rank of most overpowered:
    The most disappointing:

    3. Elemental Shaman, free kill.
    Eh, I wouldn't call them a "free kill." I've played Ele as my alt-PvP toon for 4 seasons in a row now, not including this one, and they've always been a spec in arena that is weaker, especially on the defensive, but if you can master one to an extent, they are actually really explosive and can kite and self heal well. With MoP, in my personal opinion, they have only been buffed. With Earthgrab causing instant roots instead of waiting to tick, you can stop melee in their tracks, and melee are the only thing that gave Ele any trouble imo. Pop Earthgrap with the stun totem (Capacitor?) and you're looking at a solid 6-8 seconds of keeping a melee stuck in one place (aside from them trinketing it obviously). The way Lava Burst instant casts now allows the shaman to only have to stand-still-cast rarely, and still only for Hex, Heals, and Non-Proc LB. We still get the bonus minus-cooldown interrupt, which with all the interrupts being given longer cooldowns, is a fair boost. For me, I feel like I can do a lot more burst, more quickly, and while being more mobile. Honestly I'm really happy with where Ele is right now in PvP. They've always been a squishy PvP spec, and with the OP self heals these days, and the changes I mentioned before, they've only gotten buffed since Cata in PvP.

    So an Ele shaman who's being played by someone who just does Regular BG's and maybe plays at 1600 Arena rating, sure, free kill. Someone with experience, however, I think can really put this glass cannon on the top of the charts.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoros View Post
    My rank of most overpowered:
    5. Frost Death Knight, huge damage, snare, and hungering cold.
    /facepalm
    You heard it here, guys: glass cannons with slows and abilities that no longer exist in the game, are overpowered.

  20. #20
    Hahaha I totally agree +1

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