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  1. #221
    i plan to lvl alots of 85s to 90 first to get the 90s ach plus not in a hurry mop is still new anyways.before i start raiding.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharlok View Post
    People on my server are raiding just as much if not even more than during DS. Its not as much as it was in the beginning of Cata but I think thats because of LFR and the huge amoung of dailies you have to do....
    Seems to be the case on my realm too.

    I think the big thing right now is that a lot of people don't just bulldoze their way straight to raiding content. Even 6 weeks into the expansion, there are plenty of people who intent to raid that haven't hit 90, haven't gotten to a gear level comfortable for raiding, who are waiting for their guild to be prepared for raiding or maybe they don't have a guild and just want to get into a good pug run. Along those lines as well, a lot of pugs are run by partial guild groups who want a certain amount of experience and gear from people they recruit. The less serious raiders are just starting to get into 'acceptable' gear now, so pugs should start to pick up a bit in the next few weeks, particularly after LFR opens up for Heart of Fear and some new gear is available.

    Incidentally, I imagine somewhere in this thread, its been pointed out how wrong the OP's numbers are. 2.7 million people is far less than the number that actually bought the game. That number is store purchases only, not digital orders which we can safely assume made up a much larger part of the population. Heck, my server had 1000 people in login queues 4 weeks into the expansion and talking to people in my guild and other friends online, I don't think I know anyone who actually bought a hard copy of the game.

  3. #223
    I've raided, we just couldn't down the boss. It's still at that point where you need an extremely solid 10 man even to progress in normal, because we don't out gear the shit out of it yet. Give it time young one, you're chomping the bit pretty early on this analysis.

  4. #224
    There are way more than 2.7 million that bought MoP. 2.7 million bought the retail copy another 2 - 5 million bought it digital.

  5. #225
    The number of guilds getting kills in MV is still increasing every day. Considering there probably won't be another tier until sometime in the Spring I don't see why you would be surprised about the low number of raiders. DS was out for nearly a year. MV has been out for less than 2 months and people still had to level, and do heroic dungeons, and do rep grinds, and many are probably doing LFR now so they have a few epics before they start normal modes.

  6. #226
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Yeah I don't want to commit to raiding myself because of the time commitment, so LFR has been awesome for me. If I never have to log into vent again, great.

    However of my tiny guild of maybe 12 players, 4 of us have even reached 90 and I believe I'm the only one to have run heroic dungeons (took my sweet time leveling and only started gearing the last week or so but should hit LFR soon and then it's onto another toon). However I believe there are more people like my guild mates than there are players like myself (and better yet players that are already raiding or raid ready).

  7. #227
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    I disagree. I play games that I find fun and enjoy. Not as a time sink when I'm bored. I play WoW because I like the game and enjoy playing it.

    If you only play games as a time sink, then you are doing it wrong.
    I play games for something fun to do when I have nothing better to do. This is exactly what a time sink is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    .......moderation is not managed on this site in any capacity. Complaining or reporting bad moderation does nothing. They still carry on being complete dicks to anyone as they please. Fencers is a primary example of that in action.....

    So much truth in that post it hurts.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurzior View Post
    Incidentally, I imagine somewhere in this thread, its been pointed out how wrong the OP's numbers are. 2.7 million people is far less than the number that actually bought the game.
    That was the number released by Blizzard.
    http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=7473409
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  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galaddriel View Post
    That was the number released by Blizzard.
    http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company...tml?id=7473409

    that was FIRST WEEK sales. You think no one else bought it after the first week?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 12:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by This Guy View Post
    There are way more than 2.7 million that bought MoP. 2.7 million bought the retail copy another 2 - 5 million bought it digital.
    The only thing we know is 2.7 bought the game in the first week. We don't know if this was digital, box or both. I'm sure more have bought the game since then but no more numbers hvae been released.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    .......moderation is not managed on this site in any capacity. Complaining or reporting bad moderation does nothing. They still carry on being complete dicks to anyone as they please. Fencers is a primary example of that in action.....

    So much truth in that post it hurts.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    I play games for something fun to do when I have nothing better to do. This is exactly what a time sink is.
    I guess that depends on your definition of a "time sink".

    From my perspective, a time sink = something you do which is not fun, but just takes up a lot of time. aka - a time killer with little/no benefit.

    If it is fun, I don't really consider it a time sink. /shrug.
    Last edited by yjmark; 2012-11-01 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    that was FIRST WEEK sales. You think no one else bought it after the first week?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 12:05 PM ----------



    The only thing we know is 2.7 bought the game in the first week. We don't know if this was digital, box or both. I'm sure more have bought the game since then but no more numbers hvae been released.
    I wasn't saying no one has bought it since the first week, just pointing out that the person that said I was not including digital sales that this was the number that was released by Blizzard - I'm sure they counted every digital sale they could.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 09:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharlok View Post
    People on my server are raiding just as much if not even more than during DS. Its not as much as it was in the beginning of Cata but I think thats because of LFR and the huge amoung of dailies you have to do....
    Curious what realm you raid on. Just looking at random realms they all seem to have far fewer guilds this season compared to last season. Even the biggest busiest realms known for raiding.

    Illidan 190 vs 477
    Ravenholdt 21 vs 67
    Area 52 168 vs 422
    Frostmourne 160 vs 386
    Malganis 148 vs 302
    Blackrock 128 vs 270
    Kil'jaeden 144 vs 330
    Ner'zhul 74 vs167
    Gurubashi 8 vs 58
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  12. #232
    Brewmaster dryankem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galaddriel View Post
    I wasn't saying no one has bought it since the first week, just pointing out that the person that said I was not including digital sales that this was the number that was released by Blizzard - I'm sure they counted every digital sale they could.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-01 at 09:13 AM ----------



    Curious what realm you raid on. Just looking at random realms they all seem to have far fewer guilds this season compared to last season. Even the biggest busiest realms known for raiding.

    Illidan 190 vs 477
    Ravenholdt 21 vs 67
    Area 52 168 vs 422
    Frostmourne 160 vs 386
    Malganis 148 vs 302
    Blackrock 128 vs 270
    Kil'jaeden 144 vs 330
    Ner'zhul 74 vs167
    Gurubashi 8 vs 58

    Just curious of those numbers, was that at the same point in time for both expansions? Also does that include LFR? I'm sure there are a ton of people that would just rather do the LFR and not the hassle of actually raiding, so there probably was a decent drop from that.

  13. #233
    The hardcores have all left for other games. Why is this confusing to you people? Blizzard has chosen to cater to the casual because it made sound business sense to give the most attention to the largest demographic. It was (probably) the right thing for them to do. Why is it that the ramifications of that decision are so surprising to all of you? They knew what they were doing - I guarantee they're not surprised. So why are you?

    Expect the term "end game content" in the future to be less and less about "killing bosses" and be more and more about "things my characters can do". Expect content to get easier and easier as the bar drops lower and lower due to the exodus of skilled and committed players. This is what you asked for. A game that's a hobby and not a lifestyle. Production quality will go up, challenge will go down and the lifespan of a dying game will be extended for awhile longer.

    I've come to realize that Blizzard had to do what they did. It's shitty that people like me got left out in the cold, but it was the only way that the game could survive. They'd have no chance of making it to Titan if they'd continued to put so much resources into making their top players happy.
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2012-11-01 at 04:54 PM.
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  14. #234
    Pandaren Monk Mukki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    The hardcores have all left for other games. Why is this confusing to you people? Blizzard has chosen to cater to the casual because it made sound business sense to give the most attention to the largest demographic. It was (probably) the right thing for them to do. Why is it that the ramifications of that decision are so surprising to all of you? They knew what they were doing - I guarantee they're not surprised. So why are you?
    Every time I hear someone say "Cater to the casual" I picture it being said by the WoW player from that South Park episode back in the day.

    Have you played MoP or are you just making this up as you go? "I've seen so many people drive that car, I know how it handles!" lol...

    Try doing it in a thread where people aren't complaining about lack of progress due to difficulty? Being smarmy can really backfire when you don't know what you're talking about.

  15. #235
    Over 9000! Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    The hardcores have all left for other games. Why is this confusing to you people? Blizzard has chosen to cater to the casual because it made sound business sense to give the most attention to the largest demographic. It was (probably) the right thing for them to do. Why is it that the ramifications of that decision are so surprising to all of you? They knew what they were doing - I guarantee they're not surprised. So why are you?

    Expect the term "end game content" in the future to be less and less about "killing bosses" and be more and more about "things my characters can do". Expect content to get easier and easier as the bar drops lower and lower due to the exodus of skilled and committed players. This is what you asked for. A game that's a hobby and not a lifestyle. Production quality will go up, challenge will go down and the lifespan of a dying game will be extended for awhile longer.

    I've come to realize that Blizzard had to do what they did. It's shitty that people like me got left out in the cold, but it was the only way that the game could survive. They never would have made it to Titan if they'd continued to put so much resources into making their top players happy.
    Other games like what? Is that why we are hearing the same guild names taking world firsts in this expansion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    .......moderation is not managed on this site in any capacity. Complaining or reporting bad moderation does nothing. They still carry on being complete dicks to anyone as they please. Fencers is a primary example of that in action.....

    So much truth in that post it hurts.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    The hardcores have all left for other games.
    And which games would those be?

  17. #237
    25m is all but dead and 10m is less exiting than a 5m heroic or challenge mode.
    I myself am using this Xpac for little more than to stockpile gold and the weekly lfr Run.

    I would of course be doing Pvp to gear each of my toons up to run Lfr since 18-35 minute queues for heroics suck, but alas blizz made the pvp gear available by honor too low of ilvl for lfr thus I am forced to waste 30 minutes waiting to do a 20 minute heroic.

    In short this would of been a great expansion if blizzard would of put 10/25 on different lockouts and raised the ilvl of the basic pvp gear to be equal with the minimum requirement of lfr.
    Last edited by skrump; 2012-11-01 at 05:04 PM.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Syfy View Post
    From hardcore raiding in Cataclysm and completing the heroic raids at current content with minmal or no nerf, in MoP I'm done with raiding, the raids are no fun and made for kids tbh, I'm not saying that Cata's raids were a rose but these one are just boring, don't see myself raiding at all in this expac and seeing that as well in a lot of old ex raiders too. But casuals seem to be raiding more now, clearly content is easier than last expac. Needless to say I'll not raid at all even tho I only PVE'd the previous expac.

    So you haven't raided this tier but its too easy and no fun for you to do? How does that even work? You've just seen that other people can do it so its not worth it for you? It would be one thing if you said "my guild downed all of MV the first week so this isn't for me" but the second raid just came out this week and the third raid isn't even out so saying its not fun and too easy makes no sense.

  19. #239
    WoW is not exclusively a PvE raiding game. I'm surprised this still shocks some people.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukki View Post
    Every time I hear someone say "Cater to the casual" I picture it being said by the WoW player from that South Park episode back in the day.

    Have you played MoP or are you just making this up as you go? "I've seen so many people drive that car, I know how it handles!" lol...

    Try doing it in a thread where people aren't complaining about lack of progress due to difficulty? Being smarmy can really backfire when you don't know what you're talking about.
    Are you trying to say that the game is not more casual friendly today than it was in previous expansions? We can have that discussion if you want, but you'll lose.

    A lot of you fanboys get up in arms when people say things like "cater to the casual" because it's normally followed by a rant about how bad Blizzard is for doing so. Take a breather and read what I wrote instead of making assumptions about my intent. Blizzard has made the game more casual friendly and it was the right thing for them to do. I bet, if you take a moment to consider it instead of shooting off towards your regular defense tactics, you actually agree with that statement.

    The content is not harder. You just have less people who have the experience and dedication to blow through it. And before you whip out whatever singular experience you have to refute that statement, "the content" means "the content" - not "Boss Fight X". It means the experience that your average player has from the moment he logs on until the moment he logs off. It means raids, yes, but it also means leveling, dungeons, questing and everything in between.

    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    Other games like what? Is that why we are hearing the same guild names taking world firsts in this expansion?
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    And which games would those be?
    I like that two of you decided to beat this tired drum. This is the part where I'm supposed to say that MMO X is the WoW killer and you get to mentally invalidate my entire position because the idea that anyone but Blizzard can dethrone WoW is preposterous. Right?

    Don't the obvious traps you try to lay get old after awhile? The truth is that "other games" are just other games. Plural. They go to D3 or TL2 or BL2 or whatever game is this week's hot ticket. They go to consoles or they put more time into TV shows or (shockingly) hobbies that do not include a screen at all.

    Further, this discussion is not about the half dozen top guilds that run around taking world firsts (who, might I add, have experienced massive turnover in their rosters). It's about the dwindling hundreds of thousands of people who are true hardcore gamers. It's about the repercussions of Blizzard turning their eye away from the few and towards the millions of players who are, in fact, casual (a term that reflects commitment more than skill). Those repercussions are not, in an overall sense, negative. The decision has extended the life of the game. However, there will be some downsides – such as the observation made that started this entire thread in the first place.
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2012-11-01 at 05:27 PM.
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