Surprised that so few people are raiding

[Osmeric]

It is kinda sad when LFR has become the major source for raiding for so many.

I'm wondering if even this is going to remain true. They've upped the difficulty of LFR, and it's becoming less of a fun easy romp and more of an annoying frustrating wipefest. People may start going "to hell with it".

[Ferocity]

Simple explanation:

People grow up.

WoW hasnt had much fresh blood the last few years interested in raiding, what it has is old players resubbing now and then to check expansion or patches, all those 15-25 year old students raiding from 2005 and onward are either bored of it or moved on with life cause they got older

Actually when WoW just started, a lot of players were in their 30+, with many of them coming from EQ. Online gaming wasn't really popular back then, especially among young generation.

Also raiding greatly moved to dance model and dexterity "skills" check. People in their 30+ don't have high reaction, which is required on almost each fight in Cata+, but heck, WoW was never about fast reactions and excessive dancing, as it is RPG not some kind of 3D Action/Arcade. But now WoW is catering toward younger generation for more subs (by dumbing down game systems and switching direction from RPG to Arcade combat-wise) and you can see a lot of people under 18 playing WoW currently.

Also raiding in WoW requires very good PCs (thanks to heavily unoptimized gfx changes in Cata, and then MoP doubled it), especially 25-men. And many of younger generation, who would have decent enough PC to raid in WoW without much problems, they would rather play some other, newer games, and they keep criticizing WoW for "outdated" graphics, playing WoW purely social. And we won't see lightweight WoW client any time soon.

[volrath50]

For me, the guild I was in since TBC, that I did Hyjal, BT, ICC, etc with died in Cataclysm, and now my new guild is struggling to get enough raiders.

I'm not in a real hurry, I only started raiding in TBC a year into the expansion after letting my sub expire early on, and I was still happy with that.

[Radoria]

If the numbers the OP posted are accurate and include LFR, I'm fucking stunned by this. I would have guessed it was a lot higher than that. I've been raiding for weeks and I got 2 other toons who are very close to raid ready as well. Then again I've had a shit ton of free time this month but...the numbers still surprise me.

[KCguy]

Over 5 weeks since the expac launched and still only a third of the amount of guilds that raided in Dragon Soul have managed to kill one boss.

Are people still leveling?
Are the dailies putting people off?
Did that many people unsub?
Or did that many people just give up on raiding?

There's a big jump in normal compared to Dragon Soul normal I think. It's defininately not a walk in the park for very casual guilds. Any super casual guild could walk into Dragon Soul and get fairly far. It's not the case anymore.

[Zka]

They're all just waiting for the inevitable 35% nerf to all the content so they can just PuG it right out of Trade chat.

Wait, what 35% nerf? The one that only happens to the expansion-end tier? Yeah they can wait for that And why would anyone want to PUG on trade anymore, since LFR offers instant group in a nerfed raid instance?

---------- Post added 2012-11-08 at 08:29 AM ----------

Also raiding greatly moved to dance model and dexterity "skills" check. People in their 30+ don't have high reaction, which is required on almost each fight in Cata+, but heck, WoW was never about fast reactions and excessive dancing, as it is RPG not some kind of 3D Action/Arcade. But now WoW is catering toward younger generation for more subs (by dumbing down game systems and switching direction from RPG to Arcade combat-wise) and you can see a lot of people under 18 playing WoW currently.

Such a good post. I'm 35 and the dexterity based endgame really killed my motivation for raiding. The margin of error in WASD intense boss abilities was decreased a lot since Cata and I don't know what's the logic behind this. In BC and LK I went through tiers of raiding without failing once on the "dance". In Cata this changed a lot, I doubt I was suddenly debilitated when turning 34 or something... It's not doing good for the raiding community imho.

[Deleted]

One of the better effects of having LFR around is that for those that aren't involved with, don't have time for, or are uninterested in progression raiding, you can take your time and do other things. There's no hurry. If you're not ready for another few months, there will be a raid you can join when you are.

For sure, I love raiding, have raided for years, and apart from taking a break during Cata I will like to get back into it. The difference I think, not just for me, but a lot of people is the ones who have been playing since the start have been going for 8 years or so now, and 8 years is a hell of a long time to be doing the same stuff essentially over and over!

Kudos to Blizzard for managing to keep as many long term players engaged imo!

[melodramocracy]

It is kinda sad when LFR has become the major source for raiding for so many.

It's a matter of 'good enough'. I personally am not currently committed enough to tell 9 other people that I'll show up to play 2x per week on a consistent basis. So things like LFR and pug attempts will have to do.

[Deleted]

I have been raiding since TBC, but honestly atm i just don't want to attend a schedule anymore. There's plenty to do outside of raids anyway, and I can do LFR to see the story (which is probably my main interest), I love that.

[DieFichte]

Numbers are not far apart for T11 and T14, and you have to count that in T11 in the same amount of time that we passed now there were holidays.

Or for numbers: 3k more raids have killed Magmaw in the same amount of raidweeks than Stoneguard (+ there was 1-2 weeks of holidays in T11)
Oh yeah, and WoW had 2 million more subs back then

[Rivellana]

Such a good post. I'm 35 and the dexterity based endgame really killed my motivation for raiding. The margin of error in WASD intense boss abilities was decreased a lot since Cata and I don't know what's the logic behind this. In BC and LK I went through tiers of raiding without failing once on the "dance". In Cata this changed a lot, I doubt I was suddenly debilitated when turning 34 or something... It's not doing good for the raiding community imho.

See, I'd be inclined to disagree at least a little bit with the poster you quoted there.

I'm 31 and I have played at least 6 years and I can't say I've seen any difference in my dexterity/ability to play. My husband, same age, has gotten even better at it with time if anything because he got a Razer Nostromo.

My entire guild is for the most part 25+ and the raiding team consists of three married couples all between 30-36 and we're certainly not doing competitive raiding but it's not for lack of ability. If anything it's for lack of time (we only raid 6 hours a week) as some people have mentioned in the thread...older people having less time to play because of family/work, etc.

[kage]

I don't know about you guys, but I've been busy enjoying the million other things in Mists.

[Awe]

See, I'd be inclined to disagree at least a little bit with the poster you quoted there.

I'm 31 and I have played at least 6 years and I can't say I've seen any difference in my dexterity/ability to play. My husband, same age, has gotten even better at it with time if anything because he got a Razer Nostromo.

My entire guild is for the most part 25+ and the raiding team consists of three married couples all between 30-36 and we're certainly not doing competitive raiding but it's not for lack of ability. If anything it's for lack of time (we only raid 6 hours a week) as some people have mentioned in the thread...older people having less time to play because of family/work, etc.

You may not notice that and perhaps in your case you get better over time due to experience alone but its basically a fact that dexterity capabilities are starting to deteriorate in your late 20. I am 30 myself and while things like WoW are not a problem, competetive gameplay in more manual demanding games (like fighting games for instance) are starting to be a problem. I can still play them fairly well but I am affraid my skillcap is starting to go down. In South Korea where pro Starcraft gaming is in the cutting edge state, it is basically an accepted rule that pro players "retire" when they reach age of around 25 becouse they cant compete anymore with the younger generation. Then of course you have players like Whitera who still play at top level despite being 30+, but at that level of skill players like him are exceptional.

[MoanaLisa]

You may not notice that and perhaps in your case you get better over time due to experience alone but its basically a fact that dexterity capabilities are starting to deteriorate in your late 20. I am 30 myself and while things like WoW are not a problem, competetive gameplay in more manual demanding games (like fighting games for instance) are starting to be a problem. I can still play them fairly well but I am affraid my skillcap is starting to go down. In South Korea where pro Starcraft gaming is in the cutting edge state, it is basically an accepted rule that pro players "retire" when they reach age of around 25 becouse they cant compete anymore with the younger generation. Then of course you have players like Whitera who still play at top level despite being 30+, but at that level of skill players like him are exceptional.

Below the level where people play to get paid, it's been my experience that older players can do quite well by simply playing smarter. It may not get you quite as far but for many, games are tuned well enough that if they don't simply stand around and can play smart in every other way, they can do fine. I'm aware of at least one guild based in a retirement center that manages to clear heroic raids in a timely fashion and has a D3 cabal among themselves.

They don't have pretensions to be world first or anything but they do well enough. As long as you're having fun...

[gibbie99]

I'd be interested in LFR, but man i'm running out of time. Playing since early BC, i just have almost no time any more. I stopped raiding 2+ years ago to focus on my career and wife. And now we have a kid, so yeah raiding is out of the picture for me, and LFR would be a once in a blue moon thing. I think alot of Wow players are in the same boat, many of us who played vanilla/BC have grown up and just have no time.

[Unclekreepy]

I dont know about other people BUT, im happy with just doing LFR.. i'll eventually become bored of the game again and quit for a few months until a new major content patch is released.

I'm sure others feel this way also.

[Osmeric]

I dont know about other people BUT, im happy with just doing LFR...

LFR has disappointed me, and I have doubts I will continue with WoW because of it.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

You may not notice that and perhaps in your case you get better over time due to experience alone but its basically a fact that dexterity capabilities are starting to deteriorate in your late 20. I am 30 myself and while things like WoW are not a problem, competetive gameplay in more manual demanding games (like fighting games for instance) are starting to be a problem. I can still play them fairly well but I am affraid my skillcap is starting to go down. In South Korea where pro Starcraft gaming is in the cutting edge state, it is basically an accepted rule that pro players "retire" when they reach age of around 25 becouse they cant compete anymore with the younger generation. Then of course you have players like Whitera who still play at top level despite being 30+, but at that level of skill players like him are exceptional.

When I was around 40. Came in the top 20 of the BF2142 dogtag competition bagging 15 DICE dogtags. That dev deserved to die (stabbed him 3x) for camping on a South African (yes, as in AFRICA) server with 1024ms pings. Grandma can get around nicely...



Hand and eye coordination isn't the problem so much getting older (at least with me), it's that you'll tire quicker. I used to be able to game for 15hrs straight, now 2 to 4hrs I'm exhausted. The kids who laughed that for me ICC healing was a workout, wait until they're near 50, they'll understand then.

[Galaddriel]

I think the big thing right now is that a lot of people don't just bulldoze their way straight to raiding content. Even 6 weeks into the expansion, there are plenty of people who intent to raid that haven't hit 90, haven't gotten to a gear level comfortable for raiding, who are waiting for their guild to be prepared for raiding or maybe they don't have a guild and just want to get into a good pug run. Along those lines as well, a lot of pugs are run by partial guild groups who want a certain amount of experience and gear from people they recruit. The less serious raiders are just starting to get into 'acceptable' gear now, so pugs should start to pick up a bit in the next few weeks, particularly after LFR opens up for Heart of Fear and some new gear is available.

3 months into the expac, all 3 raids open and still only 1/2 the number of guilds are raiding...

[Osmeric]

Numbers are not far apart for T11 and T14, and you have to count that in T11 in the same amount of time that we passed now there were holidays.

A month and a half later, and we can definitely say normal mode participation is lower now than it was at the same point in T11.

(Not 1/2 the guilds, though.)