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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    I'm saying you can cater to the bottom denomination only so much until you hit DS redux which lost people anyways.
    The number of people clearing normal MSV at this point is miniscule, maybe 100K. Every last one of them could quit and it would be a blip.

    Blizzard's problem isn't risking catering to the "bottom denominator". They've excluded the great majority of the player population from normal (and beyond) raids entirely.

    As for DS... are you saying that if it had been harder, they'd have lost fewer people? That makes absolutely no sense to me.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  2. #302
    Blizzard have been busy destroying raiding for years, now. It's just taking people some time to see it.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post

    As for DS... are you saying that if it had been harder, they'd have lost fewer people? That makes absolutely no sense to me.
    I'm saying if it was more /interesting/ people would have been more likely to stick. I doubt anyone really enjoyed that tier unless they had spatial awareness comparable to a toaster. And for that, I give this tier props.

    As I said, apparently Jasper chains is complex for people. It's about as basic a mechanic as you can get.

    And where are people getting this 100K number anyways. Curious about some of the various rates.

  4. #304
    I don't like MSV very much, but HoF has been one of the coolest fights in a while for me.

  5. #305
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Febreeze View Post
    Well, now I have got to 90 in my own time, my own circumstances mean that as much as I will raid as much as I can, but having a full time job (and extras) means I just don't have the patience to sit down after 8 hours in the office, to spend the whole night raiding! Sure I will raid a bit, but it doesn't hold the same excitement as it did when I was YOUNGER!

    I will hit LFR more than a formed 10 man for sure, as it fits my play style much more these days!
    One of the better effects of having LFR around is that for those that aren't involved with, don't have time for, or are uninterested in progression raiding, you can take your time and do other things. There's no hurry. If you're not ready for another few months, there will be a raid you can join when you are.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  6. #306
    Deleted
    Well, people are too busy with the shitty rep grind
    I for one haven't even stepped into heroic 5 man yet

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-07 at 10:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    One of the better effects of having LFR around is that for those that aren't involved with, don't have time for, or are uninterested in progression raiding, you can take your time and do other things.
    So true.
    But I wonder if you'll still be able to find an LFR group for 5.0 raids in one year

  7. #307
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurv View Post
    But I wonder if you'll still be able to find an LFR group for 5.0 raids in one year
    I would guess yes but you might spend some time in queue. As the system expands and more raids are added on, it shouldn't be THAT much different than queueing up for old dungeons as you level. I've been curious about that myself and wondered how many DS LFR's are being run per day right now.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  8. #308
    I'm still burned out from a year of Icecrown, which caused me to go casual in Cataclysm... which meant that I hardly played the game during Cataclysm, since there was nothing to do.

    At this point in my life, I couldn't fathom playing this game for 10 hours a week beating my head against the wall and/or killing the same boss over and over again. Actual progression raiding is some of the most monotonous ways I've ever spent time in my life.

  9. #309
    It is kinda sad when LFR has become the major source for raiding for so many.

  10. #310
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roflmfao View Post
    It is kinda sad when LFR has become the major source for raiding for so many.
    That's a conscious design development on their part.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  11. #311
    5.1 will change alot since more scenarios but shame no new dungeons to mess around

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by roflmfao View Post
    It is kinda sad when LFR has become the major source for raiding for so many.
    You make no sense at all.

    before LFR a very small % of the player base raided, period. Blizz introduces a method of raiding that is made available to the casual/masses and now its a problem? I guess you'd prefer they nerf Normal so bad that regular progressions guilds could only do heroic raiding. Then everyone would be able to do Normals which would make it alright.

    lolz

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    That's a conscious design development on their part.
    What's going to be interesting is if those people in LFR don't bother to do normal modes, even with progressive nerfs. Will Blizzard be ok with that?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-07 at 11:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazar View Post
    I guess you'd prefer they nerf Normal so bad that regular progressions guilds could only do heroic raiding. Then everyone would be able to do Normals which would make it alright.
    That's actually the plan, you know.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  14. #314
    Dreadlord Dragore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    What's going to be interesting is if those people in LFR don't bother to do normal modes, even with progressive nerfs. Will Blizzard be ok with that?
    The only difference between normal and LFR is ilvl and difficulty. There aren't different bosses or story so....yes? Normals/Heroic are for the more "hardcore" raiders LFR is for casuals who dont really play much at all, how does this keep coming up again?

  15. #315
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragore View Post
    The only difference between normal and LFR is ilvl and difficulty.
    Err no?
    One main difference for many people is group size; many guilds can field 10 or 12 people and would love to do guild only runs, but don't want to do unnerfed normals or wait months for 15% nerfs.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by roflmfao View Post
    It is kinda sad when LFR has become the major source for raiding for so many.
    If not for LFR, then just a minority would be raiding as usual. That's always been the case.

  17. #317
    I am still seeing less PuGs than there was preLFR. Overall though I wouldnt be surprised if there are less raiders or at least those who care about putting in effort into this game anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by roflmfao View Post
    It is kinda sad when LFR has become the major source for raiding for so many.
    It has effectively gutted the PuG community on my high population server and I enjoyed PuGing for years before LFR came out and would even lead my own raids. The first month that LFR came out while playing at my usual late night schedule, I could not fill a raid and had to resort to LFR of which I got burned out from due to being very underwhelming.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2012-11-08 at 03:14 AM.

  18. #318
    Raiding has always been something only a small minority of the playerbase does regularly. Personally I've been playing off and on since 2007 and have never been interested in raiding. I'm also not level 90 yet.

  19. #319
    Deleted
    Dwar ftw ^^

  20. #320
    Simple explanation:

    People grow up.

    WoW hasnt had much fresh blood the last few years interested in raiding, what it has is old players resubbing now and then to check expansion or patches, all those 15-25 year old students raiding from 2005 and onward are either bored of it or moved on with life cause they got older

    Out of 50? people or so that i know that played WoW at some point for a LONG period and not just a "Saw it, moved on players" (Net cafe affiliations) only 5-6 are actually raiding, in MoP and maybe other 5 that bought it to check it out..Out of those 6 raiding, 5 are 18-22 years old, aka just entered college years, and one 30 year old, everyone i know that "grew up" as in went past college years and is now 25 + simply cant raid cause they are fed up with WoW really, they can play it to check it out, but they cant dedicate to raids.

    At least what i see at the net cafe i go and others i know.

    The younger ages are not interested in WoW at all, they are playing LoL 24/7 or generally, only free games its not like back in the day when every 13-25 year old would walk up to you and ask "Whats that?" and the next few days he/she would be playing it, they simply go "Is it free? No" "Oh, okay, back to LoL".

    New generation is spoiled from F2P games ;p
    Last edited by potis; 2012-11-08 at 04:26 AM.

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