Thread: Haste gems?

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  1. #1

    Haste gems?

    Was looking at killars ~ vodka and saw he gem'd 320 haste gems and is at 8k haste... Now when did gemming straight haste become better than agi...

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Killars/simple

  2. #2
    When secondary stats got twice the gem budget as primary stats.

    Also, Agi is still more than twice as good as Haste until you're in mostly raid gear. The EP values everyone is throwing around are for BiS, not the blues everyone is in right now. They change as your gear changes.

  3. #3
    Ya. The stat weights for combat are like 2.7 for agi and 1.6 for haste in BiS gear. I'm only gemming haste because i hate slow energy regen and it makes it a tiny bit better.
    But agi should be better until 496 gear atleast.

  4. #4
    based on simulationcraft im sitting at:
    agi 3.28
    crit 1.03
    haste 1.34
    hit 2.22
    mastery 1.07
    attack 1.25
    expertise 2.16

    my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Eijin/simple

    take it for what you will :P agi gems are still better than haste gems for me.

  5. #5
    he's not going for haste - he's going for matching colors into sockets. Since now secondary stat gems have double the amount of the primary stat gems, they have become really close in terms of EP. Agi becomes slightly worse and secondary stats slightly better the mroe gear you have.

    Going with EJ Combat EPs just for example:
    Agi 2.77 EP * 160 (gem) = 443.2
    haste 1.6345 EP * 320 (gem) = 532.04

    It's simply stronger because there's more rating.
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  6. #6

  7. #7
    Get simcraft, calcultae EPs, do math. There is no easy solution

    Anyway just giving it a quick look, probably yes.
    ColdUI
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  8. #8
    See for combat, I can see that, but for the other two? I guess sub doesn't matter as it is kind of useless atm, but for assassination 2x haste < agi. Mastery would be close but, then for combat it wouldn't be.

  9. #9
    Subt is far from useless right now.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Subt is far from useless right now.
    Explain. What is it exactly that sub is useful for? It can't cleave. It does less single target than assassination.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    It does less single target than assassination.
    I'm getting better numbers as Subt than Mut. It's also more fun to play right now. It also shares stat priority with Combat, making it an ideal offspec. Subt on Elegon specifically is amazing, and great on most fights where you can't use BF.

    Both are viable, and I'm getting better performance out of Subt. Subt is far from useless.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I'm getting better numbers as Subt than Mut. It's also more fun to play right now. It also shares stat priority with Combat, making it an ideal offspec. Subt on Elegon specifically is amazing, and great on most fights where you can't use BF.

    Both are viable, and I'm getting better performance out of Subt. Subt is far from useless.
    You aren't playing assassination correctly then. Pretty much everyone is getting noticeably higher numbers with assassination right now, and I have yet to see any of the rogues in top guilds use sub. I have a hard time seeing sub as better than the other 2 for elegon specifically either.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    You aren't playing assassination correctly then. Pretty much everyone is getting noticeably higher numbers with assassination right now, and I have yet to see any of the rogues in top guilds use sub. I have a hard time seeing sub as better than the other 2 for elegon specifically either.
    I'm definitely playing it correctly. I suppose Elegon is a bad example because there's a tradeoff. It's easier to get more charges down as Subt, but Mut always needs help if you go past 3. This is because VW doesn't seem to give you back energy when the charge dies with Rupture. Mut does do way more damage because of the huge damage debuff in execute, however.

    The execute phase was not an issue for us when we went in with 10 stacks. Getting the charges down to do that was.

    Also, my experience may be different than all those top people because of gear. I've spent 9 coins so far: all gold. I'm also lazy and don't like reforging and regemming everything when switching from Combat.

  14. #14
    I don't think it can be the gear when this was week 1 raiding last week, and assassination is ahead at entry level gear anyway. Yeah sure by the last boss some of them may have gotten a good bit, but the first ones? Reforging makes little difference if you have as little gear as you say because most of it will be used to get hit/exp cap. Gemming is also not really the same for any of them, yet relatively close for all of them. Haste/mastery are relatively strong for all 3. Sub has such a high value for agi though that it is actually going to favor giving up secondary stats at times due to agi being way over double the secondary stats. You are definitely doing something wrong or you didn't test them out in equal conditions or you only did very limited comparisons and got badly rng'd by something.

    Don't rupture the charges, keep rupture on elegon and pool for the charges. Even if you got the energy back afterwards, that rupture isn't helping you burst them more than if you used those cp and energy on an envenom. Now sure, if you got the energy back when they died, it would probably be an overall dps gain to do that, but that isn't the focus of that phase. If you need burst on them, combat is also pretty strong at that, and will do more overall than sub.

  15. #15
    In my experience with elegon, combat was -terrible- at doing the charges. i needed help by the 3rd charge. As sub with pooled energy i was still going strong on the 6th (we never completed the 6th). ive yet to try mutilate on it, however i would imagine an envenom right before it starts, keeping rupture up on the boss himself and killing the charge itself with a few envenom buffed mutilates/dispatches

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by eijin View Post
    In my experience with elegon, combat was -terrible- at doing the charges. i needed help by the 3rd charge. As sub with pooled energy i was still going strong on the 6th (we never completed the 6th). ive yet to try mutilate on it, however i would imagine an envenom right before it starts, keeping rupture up on the boss himself and killing the charge itself with a few envenom buffed mutilates/dispatches
    Sounds like 10m? One of the rogues in the elegon thread was saying how he was easily soloing his as combat on 10m. I'm guessing its 10m because you are talking about shooting for a 7th stack by killing your 6th set which I haven't heard of many 25m guilds doing but quite a few 10m. I can't really comment on that, but if he can do it, I don't really see why you wouldn't be able to.

  17. #17
    Yeah, im reffering to 10 man, and no idea. As combat with KS you massicure it, with AR you massicure it, but without a CD up you cant get a full 5 CP 1 finisher combo off on it, and 3-4 CP + finisher wasnt enough to kill it. Me + tank was able to kill it however, but it made more since to go sub. Its of course very possible he had better gear or something (i think i was 366ish at the time? both weapons were from a heroic i believe)

  18. #18
    Just looked at some logs. I guess I'll give it another chance. I think I was a little too eager to switch to Subt since Mut is boring as hell to play right now. Horrible regen, no legendary proc, only two boring CDs. DPS is DPS, though.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Just looked at some logs. I guess I'll give it another chance. I think I was a little too eager to switch to Subt since Mut is boring as hell to play right now. Horrible regen, no legendary proc, only two boring CDs. DPS is DPS, though.
    Oh its boring, I agree. I'd much rather play sub.

    Quote Originally Posted by eijin View Post
    Yeah, im reffering to 10 man, and no idea. As combat with KS you massicure it, with AR you massicure it, but without a CD up you cant get a full 5 CP 1 finisher combo off on it, and 3-4 CP + finisher wasnt enough to kill it. Me + tank was able to kill it however, but it made more since to go sub. Its of course very possible he had better gear or something (i think i was 366ish at the time? both weapons were from a heroic i believe)
    But you can get a bf'd bonus damage 5cp evis (with rvs) hit on it as it spawns as you should have time to build cp's on elegon on the earlier ones. Especially the 2nd time the phase comes and he has a bunch of debuffs, you're looking at at least a double damage rvs'd 5cp evis. I heard they only have 500k in 10m, so that should be a pretty huge chunk (don't forget to switch bf off though while you swap and finish it).

  20. #20
    Sesshou, could you go into some more details on your blade flurry there? I've only tried mutilate on Elegon (we will likely kill him on Thursday), but it sounds like you are cleaving the adds as they spawn with a full strength evis, which sounds pretty tasty.

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