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  1. #1

    crit better than haste/mastery for Demo?!

    I have simmed myself and if I done it right all 3 we're very close but with crit slightly ahead, does this sound right?


    my warlock is Avikur on Ravencrest EU
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  2. #2
    I'm just going to start by telling you I hate you from the depths of my heart. Headmaster's Will, lucky bastard.

    OT: Yes, very well possible. If you look at the BiS 14H list with Scale factors on the SimC site then you'll see it has Crit = Mastery in that too.
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  3. #3
    it's fair to say I was rather pleased when the staff dropped and there was no one else in there that could use it!

    When I simmed myself I didn't change any stat weights or anything, just imported my character, told it to look at all stats and then simmed, is this right?
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLisi1982 View Post
    it's fair to say I was rather pleased when the staff dropped and there was no one else in there that could use it!

    When I simmed myself I didn't change any stat weights or anything, just imported my character, told it to look at all stats and then simmed, is this right?
    You probably want to look at the scaling plots.

    These are mine (yours will differ!):


    You can see there are points where Crit and Haste will flip around at bit, this seems to occur at various Haste thresholds, Doom at 3036, Corruption at 4717 for example, but you can see it doesn't take much more Haste for it to overtake and quickly rebuild it's superiority.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2012-10-10 at 11:59 AM.

  5. #5
    How do I find out my scaling plots? (Sorry for all the questions! lol) thanks for your help guys, I do appreciate it
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLisi1982 View Post
    How do I find out my scaling plots? (Sorry for all the questions! lol) thanks for your help guys, I do appreciate it
    In options, check the desired boxes in the 'Plots' tab under options, same as you do for Scaling.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    I ran some sims on my gear earlier today, and even though haste is the lowest in the stat weights changing my reforges only would move my dps + \ - ~ 150 dps. For me personally 150 dps isn't worth cutting my haste into nothing for other stats so I decided to continue to stack haste until I hit a point were the damage stacking a different stat will actually be noticeable in play.

    Honestly for the most part right now for demo I consider stats just int, hit, and secondary because all 3 secondary stats are so close.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    I ran some sims on my gear earlier today, and even though haste is the lowest in the stat weights changing my reforges only would move my dps + \ - ~ 150 dps. For me personally 150 dps isn't worth cutting my haste into nothing for other stats so I decided to continue to stack haste until I hit a point were the damage stacking a different stat will actually be noticeable in play.

    Honestly for the most part right now for demo I consider stats just int, hit, and secondary because all 3 secondary stats are so close.
    Correct me if i am wrong, but it may be that there is a haste threshold at 4717 for corruption, making the other stats better once you get too that point.
    Credit to PaulDok for sig!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Heatuss View Post
    Correct me if i am wrong, but it may be that there is a haste threshold at 4717 for corruption, making the other stats better once you get too that point.
    My Haste on the profile above is 4860, you can see Haste did drop off a tiny bit at 4717, but by 4800 is was back on top again. The plateaus are very minor.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    My Haste on the profile above is 4860, you can see Haste did drop off a tiny bit at 4717, but by 4800 is was back on top again. The plateaus are very minor.
    A ya gotcha didn't realize that you mentioned that some how ><
    Credit to PaulDok for sig!

  11. #11
    Nice thread, have been thinking the same realy. Am using askmrrobot atm to sort out everything for me. With that being said i´ve not done any sims latley.

    Jessicka what damage are you pulling on The Stone Guards? Why am asking is because I would love to hear how your "haste stacking" is working for you.
    Feel free check my armory and see if you find out any flaws. Would be Very much appreciated Jessicka.

    Ghoosy EU Xavius

  12. #12
    Latest parse was 60k on Stone Guards. I understand a lot of guilds are just stacking the three dogs up and multidotting/cleaving I don't think we're quite at that level, so just 2 dogs at a time for us

    Just a random tip for anyone struggling with getting too many people in melee in that fight through chains; kite the dogs up and down the sides of the room a few yards at a time to make use of as much space as you can, it really helps minimise raid damage and gives people people plenty of space to avoid all the crap on the floor.

  13. #13
    isnt simcraft broken right now?

  14. #14
    ya i did sims with my gear with different ratings(4198, 4717, 5260, 6640 haste, rest into mastery), close to hit cap(orc with wand) and all those sims came within 150 dps of each other. i wanted to try demo this time around for the new raid + the farm bosses in MSV heroic, and even with switching int/mastery gems(affliction) to int/haste gems(demo), and having to reforge a few pieces for specific affliction for the sim, it still came out to within that 150 dps mark.

  15. #15
    THey are all VERY VERY close.

    However, keep these in minds:
    1) Mastery's value will depend on your capacity to optimize/maximize your Fury use. Itll be great if you are good at it, itll be bad if you are. It doesnt have a static value.
    2) Crit's value always was and always will be RNG dependant. Simcraft can average your DPS to 50k (for exemple), but what happens in reality is that sometimes you'll be 60k DPS, and sometimes you'll do less then 40k.
    3) Haste is our only objectifyable stat as Demo. It will always be worth just as much, since the only skill gameplay decision that affects its value negatively would be if you simply stop doing anything altogether. Also, it has very easilly definable plateaus and it is not a % chance.

    Personally I always go with haste. Its the best bang for your buck unless you are playing as perfectly and are just as lucky as the Sim Craft. It also allows you to adjust faster to target switches due to lowered casting/GCD.
    Last edited by Nikijih; 2012-10-29 at 06:30 PM.

  16. #16
    I reforged all my gear into every stat but on max. dps mastery won the ´´fight´´ .
    When Simcrafted with full mastery, kritt still pulls ahead but if i change my reforges into kritt (not totaly) the result is a dps loss.
    I can´t feel the power of haste , my shadow bolt casting time is 2,35 secs (full mastery) and it gets down to 2.2 when reforged into haste; ok ok , haste makes you build up demonic fury faster... but how much faster ? because when i´m going into meta (mastery reforged) i´m a monster!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Quae View Post
    I reforged all my gear into every stat but on max. dps mastery won the ´´fight´´ .
    When Simcrafted with full mastery, kritt still pulls ahead but if i change my reforges into kritt (not totaly) the result is a dps loss.
    I can´t feel the power of haste , my shadow bolt casting time is 2,35 secs (full mastery) and it gets down to 2.2 when reforged into haste; ok ok , haste makes you build up demonic fury faster... but how much faster ? because when i´m going into meta (mastery reforged) i´m a monster!
    I don't think reforging into one stat only will be the best option, i think you need a certain level of haste then mastery takes over until you are able to reach the next haste cap? It was so much simpler when I had my Hunter as my main in Cata ... Crit>haste>mastery ... simple! such big gaps between them it was obvious which was better, demo lock however could go any way, I hope as gear gets better throughout the expansion it becomes more obvious which is better!
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  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    You probably want to look at the scaling plots.

    These are mine (yours will differ!):


    You can see there are points where Crit and Haste will flip around at bit, this seems to occur at various Haste thresholds, Doom at 3036, Corruption at 4717 for example, but you can see it doesn't take much more Haste for it to overtake and quickly rebuild it's superiority.
    I'm having trouble understanding this part. I don't understand how the bottom numbers work. Because me looking at it, I see it as all of your stats increase your dps the more you have, but I cannot tell from that chart which stats are better to add, and which you can afford to lose. I've tried looking this up, but I can't get a clear answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    You tried too hard and now your post is shit. Never try too hard, the gamble isn't worth it.

  19. #19
    All of the people talking about haste breakpoints for DoTs don't understand how cast times are affected by haste, and how important it is for Demonology.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    I'm having trouble understanding this part. I don't understand how the bottom numbers work. Because me looking at it, I see it as all of your stats increase your dps the more you have, but I cannot tell from that chart which stats are better to add, and which you can afford to lose. I've tried looking this up, but I can't get a clear answer.
    This is what a lot of people have trouble understanding; that all stats as you get more will increase DPS. Somehow, somewhere along the line people get lost and confuse 'best' with 'only', and 'worst' with 'none whatsoever'. On these curves, it's the gradient that's important, as the steeper the gradient the more benefit per point you're seeing.

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