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  1. #21
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelvardik View Post
    I'll reclarify: what I meant by "drain soul tricks" was using DS on adds that were going to be dying quick to recharge all of your soulshards. The average player is likely not going to be doing that as often or efficiently as a top 100 raider, so I'm curious to see how much that affects the top warlocks' DPS.
    All warlock specs benefit from executing adds. Drain Soul, killing blows in metamorphosis and killing blows from Shadowburn all grant spec specific resources.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    5% isn't statistically significant? Sure ok...

    I'd go with 2 PvE specs. Affliction does better when you have prolonged execution phases, while Destro and Demo will do better if you need ot burst down targets faster. That way you can chop and change as required.
    I see plenty of capable players whose dps varies 5% pull to pull. Hence, you can't attribute a difference in two whacks at a target dummy to more than randomness with statistical certainty.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    All warlock specs benefit from executing adds. Drain Soul, killing blows in metamorphosis and killing blows from Shadowburn all grant spec specific resources.
    You need the killing blow with demo and destro. With affliction, you just need to have drain soul channeling on the target when it dies.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by impressivve View Post
    i can play both i just wonder which 1 does more dps i see all locks playing affli even these which are in world top guilds ? but i think i do more dps as destro dunno why
    Does it matter why? If you do more dps as destro go destro. Sure maybe you can go back and learn affliction later if you decide you're going to base what you play on world top guilds - sound statistical logic there - but if you've got a raid tonight/soon and you ahve a spec that you know you do more dps with...

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 06:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelvardik View Post
    While this looks pretty solid to show that Affliction is indeed the top spec <snip>
    You don't look at the top end to find out which spec has the highest mean/median dps. If anything has a larger variance than something you're comparing to, than of course its outliers are going to be further out.

  3. #23
    The Patient Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    As far as normal mode fights go, there really isn't a fight in MV that doesn't play to afflictions strengths to some degree.

    The Stone Guard
    This is basically a 2 target fight with light movement, which affliction is very well suited for.

    Feng the Accursed
    Single target fight with light movement, again affliction is nice here.

    Gara'jal the Spiritbinder
    If you're up top all fight its Patchwork 3.0, if your down below in the spirit realm then you will need to be able to multi-dot lots of adds. Any spec really works for this fight, affliction more so if your down below.

    The Spirit Kings
    Single target fight with an occasional add and medium movement. Any spec will work for this fight.

    Elegon
    Single target + add in phase 1, high burst required in phase 2 + multi dot for transition, then back to single target + add. Depending on how you play any spec can work here but i feel affliction can really do just about as well as any of the other specs in all phases of this fight. Crazy execution phase which favors affliction, also if you go into spark phases with full shards you're burst is just as good as destro/demo.

    Will of the Emperor
    lots of adds, lots of aoe opportunities, tons of multi-dot potential. If you focus on afflictions strengths and multi-dot more so then aoe spam you'll do very well here.


    At the end of the day just play what you enjoy and adapt from there based on boss mechanics. Can't really go too wrong with warlock specs in MV at the moment.

    Main:Paarthurnax | Alt:Peijing | <Huge in Japan> 14/14H US#16
    “Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.”
    --Littlefinger

  4. #24
    what is more important for affli master/crit/haste i think its Haste>mastery>crit am i right?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Magpai View Post
    You need the killing blow with demo and destro. With affliction, you just need to have drain soul channeling on the target when it dies.[COLOR="red"]
    You don't need the KB with Destro. You just need the target to die within 5 seconds of using Shadowburn. But I get where you're going with this in that it's guaranteed with Afflic and with Destro you need to think about it.

  6. #26
    Aff is the best overall but demo is underrated and necessary for aoe heavy fights. Aff is only clearly superior on Elegon and Emperors.

    Destro... sucks?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvre View Post
    Aff is the best overall but demo is underrated and necessary for aoe heavy fights. Aff is only clearly superior on Elegon and Emperors.

    Destro... sucks?
    Destro is actually a great spec for Elegon:
    Stage 1 - Havoc + CB = 700k nuke
    Stage 2 - FnB + Immo when the adds pop
    Stage 3 - FnB + Immo + RoF

    In most MV fights aff might be superior but you need to perfectly tune Haunt and MG usage. If your loosing too much dmg due to movement or bad execution destro should be a good choice.

    Although when you reach the 10% haste, keeping decent mastery and hit values aff is probably gonna shine more.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    This is not relevant in 4 out of 6 fights - there are adds on Gara'jal, and you can drain soul them, but you are phased so your logs are meaningless. On Elegon, there is no trick - you have 1 Protector out at a time, you would be insane to not DS that.

    Finally, top DPS on Will for Destro utilizes far more execute 'tricks' than Affliction does.

    The main reason that top DPS is all weighted towards Affliction, by the way, is that pre-MoP evaluations all had Affliction on top, so most of the top and mid tier Warlocks are playing Affliction. There is player skill bias skewing the top parses in the way of Affliction.
    Havoc plus shadowburn x3 does wonders for your dps can easily boost you an extra 20k in seconds

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelvardik View Post
    While this looks pretty solid to show that Affliction is indeed the top spec, I'm curious how much of this is a product of the fact that the top Affliction players in the world are no doubt using a ton of drain soul / soul shard tricks in order to bump up their DPS just a bit. On top of that, Affliction's execute phase is ridiculously good so I wonder if that's affecting these numbers at all.
    Well I'm getting the following on the first 4 bosses as affliction:
    Stone guard - 68k
    Feng- 61k
    Kings - 62k

    I'm not using any tricks. I'm minmaxing it the best I can, but I'm not 'cheesing' anything. Affliction is just the better spec right now, there's no doubt about it.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 10:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelvardik View Post
    I'll reclarify: what I meant by "drain soul tricks" was using DS on adds that were going to be dying quick to recharge all of your soulshards. The average player is likely not going to be doing that as often or efficiently as a top 100 raider, so I'm curious to see how much that affects the top warlocks' DPS.
    No, this is just a normal part of playing affliction.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 10:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TobiasX View Post
    The problem with WoL comparison is this: If the top 100 warlocks are all affliction, the next 100 are demonology, and the next 100 are destruction, then you've comparing top 100 to 101-200 to 201-300
    Yea, and there's a reason for that. The best players play the spec with the best damage output. You have to rely on simcraft for this.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 10:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by impressivve View Post
    what is more important for affli master/crit/haste i think its Haste>mastery>crit am i right?
    I'm personally going for mastery, but since Simcraft doesn't seem to want to do a plot, I'm taking wild guesses. It seems to me as soon as I lose mastery in favour of haste, I start to lose DPS, yet haste has a higher scale factor - it's messing with my head.

  10. #30
    After some amount of haste, simcraft always goes for mastery and hit (if you aren't capped).

  11. #31
    I dont see any affli locks keeping up with me and im demo,however, i tried affli before and it doesn't feel right.. linked my armory i went pretty much full mastery as demo even when simcraft told me to go full haste also i am hit cap(idk why it doesn't show it -__-)

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htriana/simple
    Last edited by nightrianna; 2012-10-13 at 05:02 PM.

  12. #32
    Fluffy Kitten Elmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightrianna View Post
    I dont see any affli locks keeping up with me
    In your guild maybe.
    I would like to play Demo sometimes but it's literally impossible atm because of the wand-bug.
    And Destro can be very good as Zumzum shows us all in the rankings.

  13. #33
    idk... im pulling way beyond my simcraft i even hold some high world rankings as demo, but i agree that wand bug is complete bs xD.. i think i just suck at the affli opener lol. It is kind of weird that i can play the hardest dps spec but not the simplest xD, and are you sure that once Demo is in full t14 it wont pull ahead? For example, during Dark soul and raid buffs in Demo form i do 340% increase dmg and the 4set allows it to be a 1min n 40sec CD which gives Demo the 18k mastery more often + on top of other mastery, and with such a massive dmg increase and going with such lodgic i would say Demo would pull ahead(this is only going off my 7 years of being a lock)

  14. #34
    Field Marshal
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    Affliction is very all-around on this first raid. They do good in all encouters without having any big disadvantages.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by nightrianna View Post
    I dont see any affli locks keeping up with me and im demo
    Not sure how you can say this when 7 out of the top 10 overall on Will 10m are Affliction, your #5 115k on Elegon 10m as Demo wouldn't even be top 100 on Affliction, your ~60k Spirit Kings 25m #30 rank would be around #150 on Affliction, etc. What Affliction locks are you looking at?

  16. #36
    The Patient
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    im pulling great numbers with demo
    using grim supremacy and no imp swarm glyph
    working out really well and when u gotta move ur not losing that much damage as in destro or aff
    but i tried destro on feng and did close to 10k lower and i play both very well
    with cleaving on statues first boss i did around 86k with chaos wave in demon with dark soul
    also on feng i did around 59k havent downed 3rd yet
    but im using mastery reforge and balancing my haste and crit
    crit is amazing for demo when ur wrathguard and imps crit alot a d im using chaos wave every now and then on single target when i havedark soul on
    and im actually gettig good numbers also castin doom twice in dark soul becuz of the extra damage
    but yea tons of damage

  17. #37
    idk where u see 115k on elegon it is 121k... lol only reason affli is so high on willl is because they are probably dotting the bosses when adds are up which is called, "Padding" thats what most of the ppl do to rank

  18. #38
    The Simcraft obsessed, who don't test real raid situations will tell you Affliction. Those who have actually done Heroic MV will tell you Demo.

  19. #39
    Fluffy Kitten Elmi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightrianna View Post
    idk where u see 115k on elegon it is 121k... lol only reason affli is so high on willl is because they are probably dotting the bosses when adds are up which is called, "Padding" thats what most of the ppl do to rank
    People should take their DoTs off the boss when adds spawn?
    Elegon is a gimmick fight anyways and should not be taken as a serious point of reference for DPS, because it greatly differs in how your tactics and/or setup is. Example:
    Raid A has one less damage dealer than Raid B, therefore the Warlock in Raid A has do go out 100% on his assigned Spark, whereas the Warlock in Raid B can put a SB:SoC on the boss for each wave of Sparks and nuke the boss otherwise. Big surprise, warlock B does way better DPS wise.

    Feng is a better example for comparing, even though you can cheat a little on the adds on HC, especially as Demo with Chaos Wave.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    The Simcraft obsessed, who don't test real raid situations will tell you Affliction. Those who have actually done Heroic MV will tell you Demo.
    Says the one, who only killed the first 4 bosses on normal? (assuming you are the Teye from Bleeding Hollow-US)
    I did Feng HC as Affliction, I did 90k DPS, I am not happy with that result and I could have done more. What is remarkable is, that I did 3.8M selfhealing, whereas the top ranked Destro did only 2,26M and the top Demo 1,55M. This is one of the main reasons, why I will go Affliction again: I healed almost 50% of the damage I sustained (8.1M) on my own. Damage output is not everything!

    Tomorrow, we will go for Gara'jal HC, where I will try Affliction With GoServ Imp/Imp, let's see how that turns out.

    Oh and: those who actually have the Elegon wand will tell you Demo is impossible atm.
    Last edited by Elmi; 2012-10-14 at 01:18 AM.

  20. #40
    Played affliction mostly until now and i have to say that its very good and as elmi said u're very resilient, i'm always one of the last ppl to die, demo appears to be better on some heroic fights, especially the ones that require alot of movement, spirit kings for example because you can pop meta and keep dpsing while avoiding the walls or any other bad stuff, this requires thinking ahead and good knowledge of the fight so you generate fury when there isnt much happening then go meta and dps on the move.

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