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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I don't care if good always wins, WoW lore has always been grey and isn't about uncorruptible good guys in shining white armour
    Few recent events tend to disagree.

  2. #162
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    They could always create a unique design and physiology for half ogres and use them instead of full-blooded ogres. Though I think Rexxar's involvement in upcoming content is going to be more of a callback to his friendship with Chen in Warcraft III than anything else.

    That said, I'd love to see Rexxar as the new warchief. He's honorable -- is there any doubt that he'd move his throne to the Valley of Honor? I'd like to see us reunite with a Rexxar who has grown into a strong leader during his time in Outland, perhaps uniting not just his own clan, but the various ogre clans of Outland, under a single banner.

    Of course, it needs to be Baine who puts down Garrosh, perhaps with help from Anduin. We'll see how Vol'jin's story arc pans out in the next novel, but so far, between The Shattering and Tides of War, he's been shown as a pretty cowardly guy, while Baine's been the one acting heroic and not backing down when it comes to Garrosh.

    As for an ogre mount, if they were to be made playable? Easy. Goblins. They mount you, and you run 60 to 100% faster depending on what they're dangling in front of you on a stick.
    Vol'jin never acts directly as he stated openly to Garrosh in their conversation:

    Vision of Vol'jin says: Dere be no question why, Garrosh. He gave ya tha title because ya be Grom's Son and because tha people be wantin' a war hero.
    Vision of Vol'jin says: To which I tink ya be even more like ya father den he thought, even without ya havin' da demon blood.
    Vision of Garrosh Hellscream says: You are lucky I don't gut you right here, whelp. You are foolish to think that you can speak to your Warchief in such ways.
    Vision of Vol'jin says: Ya be no Warchief of mine. Ya've not earned my respect and I'll not be seein' tha Horde destroyed by ya foolish thirst for war.
    Vision of Garrosh Hellscream says: And what exactly do you think that you'll do about it? Your threats are hollow. Go slink away with the rest of your kind in the slums. I will endure your filth in my throne room no longer.
    Vision of Vol'jin says: I know exactly what I'll be doin' about it, son of Hellscream. I'll be watchin' as ya people slowly become aware of ya ineptitude. I'll laugh as dey grow ta despise ya as I do.
    Vision of Vol'jin says: And when tha time comes dat ya failure is complete and ya "power" is meaningless, I will be dere to end ya rule, swiftly and silently.
    Vision of Vol'jin says: Ya will spend ya reign glancin' over ya shoulda and fearin' tha shadows, for when tha time comes and ya blood be slowly drainin' out, ya will know exactly who fired da arrow dat pierced ya heart.
    Vision of Garrosh Hellscream says: You have sealed your fate, troll.
    Vision of Garrosh Hellscream spits at Vol'jin's feet.
    Vision of Vol'jin says: And you yours, "Warchief".
    Although, later he talked with Thrall and said that he will support Garrosh as much as he could, these sentences are still echoing through Garrosh's mind and Vol'jin is well aware of it.

    Can't wait to read his novel.


  3. #163
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Few recent events tend to disagree.
    Tell me why Forsaken aren't evil, you are doing everything you can to avoid the point.
    They are no longer a race of misunderstood people trying to find their place in the world, they are now race using necromancy and bio weaponry to kill the living while showing no remorse whatsoever for their actions.

    They aren't grey they're black.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    They are no longer a race of misunderstood people trying to find their place in the world, they are now race using necromancy and bio weaponry to kill the living while showing no remorse whatsoever for their actions.
    Is it bad to convert bunch of slaves into free people that are not suffering from disease, hunger or poverty?

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Is it bad to convert bunch of slaves into free people that are not suffering from disease, hunger or poverty?
    Now you're just being silly. Slaves? Free people?

    I have no clue where you are getting the notion of slavery from.
    They aren't being turned into free people they are having are their mind and soul corrupted so that they can become Sylvanas's tools. When they are turned their minds are corrupted in the process to the point where they are either insane or hate filled individuals and have a gun pointed at their face saying join us or die again.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-10-11 at 10:21 AM.

  6. #166
    A few things I've seen said on this thread that I'm pretty sure are incorrect or being thought of incorrectly if I'm remembering them right:
    1. High and Blood elves looking the same save for eye color.
    The last lore panel said that they don't have this difference anymore. At this point, High elves have green eyes too, simply because the fel magics permeate everything and you can't be near it without being affected by it. It apparently works like nuclear radiation.
    2. The Titans have killed lots of Old Gods
    I'm pretty sure that it's been stated that the Titans have battled and killed many Old Gods throughout the cosmos, they just chose not to kill the ones on Azeroth. Which brings me to the next point.
    3. It took the combined might of all the Titans "just" to contain the Old Gods, there's no way they'd win in a fight.
    This is still up for debate. As I said above, the Titans have apparently dealt with many Old Gods. As for "only" being able to contain the ones on Azeroth, think of it like this: What takes more effort, wrestling a man to the ground and handcuffing him, or shooting him in the head? The it's well known that they Titans left behind constructs that could wipe out all life on Azeroth, and these creations are functioning long after their creators left left. Do you really think that they couldn't turn these(or possibly more powerful)weapons on the Old Gods while using their own powers as well to kill them?
    He is the life of guilds he has never joined.
    He once had a noobish moment- just to see what it felt like.
    If he were to beat you in a duel, you would have to fight the strong urge to thank him.
    The Lunar Elders have a holiday in which they honor him.
    He can speak Darnassian. In Orcish.
    He is: The Most Interesting Man in the World of Warcraft.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    They aren't being turned into free people they are having are their mind and soul corrupted so that they can become Sylvanas's tools.
    Just like they got their minds and soul corrupted by preachings of the Church of Light.

    See, thats the problem with you. You have only one point of view. I see more than "evil, heretic, burn".

  8. #168
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Just like they got their minds and soul corrupted by preachings of the Church of Light.

    See, thats the problem with you. You have only one point of view. I see more than "evil, heretic, burn".
    You're comparing a person following a faith, to having their very person altered by magic in to hateful beings?

    I'm going to abandon this. As I mentioned prior if you cannot see the Forsaken as anything but evil then you are hopeless and there is nothing discuss.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Tell me why Forsaken aren't evil, you are doing everything you can to avoid the point.
    They are no longer a race of misunderstood people trying to find their place in the world, they are now race using necromancy and bio weaponry to kill the living while showing no remorse whatsoever for their actions.

    They aren't grey they're black.
    They are reclaiming their lands back from people who never had anything with that land in first place, and they are doing it by any means necessary. All the killing and the actions Forsaken did was to defend their lands. You didn't saw them marching into any Alliance region and bombing it (as opposed to some other leaders).

  10. #170
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    I actually prefer to end Saturday Morning Cartoons theme, warcraft3 has one of best story campaign in game because it ends with LK wining and ruling, Arthas beating everyone stand in his path
    I really prefer to wake up on real world, where evil win 90% of time not other way around
    Forsaken stay and become huge threat maybe fix the humans (of Azeroth) ego, they are 100% humans fault since they tried to burn them "alive" (as much undead can be) as soon as they spotted them, ignoring every bit of relations before their death and being forced to become undead
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Now you're just being silly. Slaves? Free people?

    I have no clue where you are getting the notion of slavery from.
    They aren't being turned into free people they are having are their mind and soul corrupted so that they can become Sylvanas's tools. When they are turned their minds are corrupted in the process to the point where they are either insane or hate filled individuals and have a gun pointed at their face saying join us or die again.
    Have you even bother doing first few quests for Forsaken? This "join us or die" is non existent as proven in the case of Lillian Voss and Leonid Barthalomew.

    EDIT: And of course most of people will join the Forsaken ranks. Why? Simply because they are the only one who will accept them as they are.

    About the madness part, most of them can't accept the fact that they are dead, and that their past life is behind them. They either go insane or accept it.

    Leonid accepted it, he served Sylvanas, but when he didn't like her ways, and just rebelled away. Did she tried to stop him?
    Last edited by Demetrion; 2012-10-11 at 10:31 AM.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    You're comparing a person following a faith, to having their very person altered by magic in to hateful beings?

    I'm going to abandon this. As I mentioned prior if you cannot see the Forsaken as anything but evil then you are hopeless and there is nothing discuss.
    Speaking like a true member of the shepherd's flock, I think I can agree with you that there is nothing to discuss.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    They are reclaiming their lands back from people who never had anything with that land in first place, and they are doing it by any means necessary. All the killing and the actions Forsaken did was to defend their lands. You didn't saw them marching into any Alliance region and bombing it (as opposed to some other leaders).
    Gilneas. Southshore.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Gilneas. Southshore.
    Threat. Obliterated.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Gilneas. Southshore.
    Gilenas: Garrosh led Sylvanas forces during her absent time spent mourning her miserable life on top of the Frozen Throne. This was the mission which Forsaken had to do since they were in debt for Wrathgate.

    Soutshore: as I said, they reclaimed the land they once had. And as Verdugo wrote, it was posing a threat to them.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Gilenas: Garrosh led Sylvanas forces during her absent time spent mourning her miserable life on top of the Frozen Throne. This was the mission which Forsaken had to do since they were in debt for Wrathgate.

    Soutshore: as I said, they reclaimed the land they once had. And as Verdugo wrote, it was posing a threat to them.
    It's the method. As I've mentioned time and time again, how can you morally justify necromancy?
    They have no redeeming qualities and I have yet to see one listed from either of you.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    It's the method. As I've mentioned time and time again, how can you morally justify necromancy?
    They have no redeeming qualities and I have yet to see one listed from either of you.
    Are they bad? Definitely. Are they worse than humans? No.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    It's the method. As I've mentioned time and time again, how can you morally justify necromancy?
    They have no redeeming qualities and I have yet to see one listed from either of you.
    Reason why Sylvanas is using this method is to extend her race since Forsaken doesn't have any other way to procreate.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Reason why Sylvanas is using this method is to extend her race since Forsaken doesn't have any other way to procreate.
    By condemning others to their same sad fate.
    As I mentioned corrupting a person's mind, body and soul for your own ends of world domination is evil in it's very nature.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 11:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Are they bad? Definitely. Are they worse than humans? No.
    I'm sorry I thought Arthas was evil and Tirion was the good guy. How silly of me.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    By condemning others to their same sad fate.
    You still call it sad. How do you know, did you try it?

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