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  1. #181
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    By condemning others to their same sad fate.
    As I mentioned corrupting a person's mind, body and soul for your own ends of world domination is evil in it's very nature.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 11:48 AM ----------



    I'm sorry I thought Arthas was evil and Tirion was the good guy. How silly of me.

    Again, where did you get the "world domination" part? They are struggling to extend their race, not to dominate the bloody world.

  2. #182
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    You still call it sad. How do you know, did you try it?
    The fact they all hate Arthas for what he did to them was a bit of a give away as to the joys of undeath. Not mention the KotEB

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 11:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Again, where did you get the "world domination" part? They are struggling to extend their race, not to dominate the bloody world.
    They constantly mention their own hate and desire to kill the living?
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-10-11 at 10:54 AM.

  3. #183
    Dreadlord KenjiEvans's Avatar
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    What i'm mostly excited about here is the Book Of Cain of WoW, can't wait to read that one.

  4. #184
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    The fact they all hate Arthas for what he did to them was a bit of a give away as to the joys of undeath. Not mention the KotEB

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 11:52 AM ----------



    They constantly mention their own hate and desire to kill the living?
    Err where exactly?

  5. #185
    Pandaren Monk
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    The forsaken started out interesting, though. The people and victims of Arthas who have regained their free will and tried to go "Hay guyz! Look at us! We're free and we want to enjoy life and pet dogs and hug kitties!" and basically got attacked on the spot as undead scum. The ones who tried to go back to families were chased off by relatives and old loved ones who had made peace and given them up. They joined up with the Horde for self-preservation, basically. And though they said that all they feel is hatred to the living and don't care for anything and all such things... If that were true, why would they have tried in the first place?
    And like any race, you have good and bad flavors.

    The bulk of the Forsaken ~now~, however, (not counting the PCs) are basically a wall of undead flesh to protect Sylvanas from Final Death. She's still paying lip-service loyalty to Garrosh because she still needs Horde to keep her south borders safe from Alliance. Lor'Themar (hereafter Bob for easy typing) is being strong-armed by her and HE is just paying lip-service loyalty to her because he needs the Forsaken to help protect his borders from the Trolls. I'm fairly sure both will gladly break their outwardly alliances the moment they have the chance to do so.

    As for reclaiming the land they once had... Lodearon NEVER owned Gilneas lands and I think I can actually blame THEM for turning it into a threat. Sure, the whole Worgen-curse thing was a pretty big deal, but it seemed that they had it fairly well under control and Genn would've been rather happy to stay behind his wall if they never marched on it or killed off his son. (and I know that arrow was meant for him, still...)
    The people of Southshore were pretty much still the original inhabitants of the place, too. Not much to go and reclaim there... And a handfull of living people operating farms hoping really really hard that the Orcs to the north in Arathi don't come out, or the undead to the east and west don't stop by, is hardly a threat. An eyesore perhaps in what is otherwise mostly uncontested Horde territory.

    As for what may happen... I think Sylvanas will eventually join up on Garroshs side of the last conflict. We'll probably have to burn through her Valkyr before we can deal with her. Bob will probably gladly deliver them to us if only to try and get out of his agreements with her if Vol'Jin will promise to protect the Bloodelf lands instead of the Forsaken. After all, 'de Amani need ta be watched'.

    Next in line will be tricky. People are calling for Voss, but she hates undeath and those who would put others through it. She's more likely to euthanize the entire Forsaken race and call it 'mercy'. Koltira may step up if that didn't reek so much of a watered down version of Bolvar follwing in Arthas' throne. At least he would still see the reasons to keep making new Forsaken, though not as aggressively as Sylvanas...
    It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

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  6. #186
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Err where exactly?
    Beware the living, their intro, "Plaguing an entire world proves to be a bit more complicated" and "Oh, <name>... the flowers are blooming in Hillsbrad and the air is so fresh and brisk. I can't help but to wallow in the misery of it all. I look out my grimy window and long for the day when our New Plague brings this world the death it deserves." etc.
    Combine this with the fact they hold no loyalties to the Horde and actively betray them, do experiments behind their back can you really say they even think of the Horde as allies? The Horde has always been a tool for Sylvanas to further their race.
    They resent life.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    You still call it sad. How do you know, did you try it?
    Listen and read up on Sylvanas's quotes.

    "What are we if not slaves to this torment?"
    "What joy is there in this curse?"
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-10-11 at 11:12 AM.

  7. #187
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valleera View Post
    The forsaken started out interesting, though. The people and victims of Arthas who have regained their free will and tried to go "Hay guyz! Look at us! We're free and we want to enjoy life and pet dogs and hug kitties!" and basically got attacked on the spot as undead scum. The ones who tried to go back to families were chased off by relatives and old loved ones who had made peace and given them up. They joined up with the Horde for self-preservation, basically. And though they said that all they feel is hatred to the living and don't care for anything and all such things... If that were true, why would they have tried in the first place?
    And like any race, you have good and bad flavors.

    The bulk of the Forsaken ~now~, however, (not counting the PCs) are basically a wall of undead flesh to protect Sylvanas from Final Death. She's still paying lip-service loyalty to Garrosh because she still needs Horde to keep her south borders safe from Alliance. Lor'Themar (hereafter Bob for easy typing) is being strong-armed by her and HE is just paying lip-service loyalty to her because he needs the Forsaken to help protect his borders from the Trolls. I'm fairly sure both will gladly break their outwardly alliances the moment they have the chance to do so.

    As for reclaiming the land they once had... Lodearon NEVER owned Gilneas lands and I think I can actually blame THEM for turning it into a threat. Sure, the whole Worgen-curse thing was a pretty big deal, but it seemed that they had it fairly well under control and Genn would've been rather happy to stay behind his wall if they never marched on it or killed off his son. (and I know that arrow was meant for him, still...)
    The people of Southshore were pretty much still the original inhabitants of the place, too. Not much to go and reclaim there... And a handfull of living people operating farms hoping really really hard that the Orcs to the north in Arathi don't come out, or the undead to the east and west don't stop by, is hardly a threat. An eyesore perhaps in what is otherwise mostly uncontested Horde territory.

    As for what may happen... I think Sylvanas will eventually join up on Garroshs side of the last conflict. We'll probably have to burn through her Valkyr before we can deal with her. Bob will probably gladly deliver them to us if only to try and get out of his agreements with her if Vol'Jin will promise to protect the Bloodelf lands instead of the Forsaken. After all, 'de Amani need ta be watched'.

    Next in line will be tricky. People are calling for Voss, but she hates undeath and those who would put others through it. She's more likely to euthanize the entire Forsaken race and call it 'mercy'. Koltira may step up if that didn't reek so much of a watered down version of Bolvar follwing in Arthas' throne. At least he would still see the reasons to keep making new Forsaken, though not as aggressively as Sylvanas...
    It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
    Gilneas was war operation not only made by Forsaken, but whole Horde asked for it.
    Soutshore, Forsaken waged war with Soutshore since the beginning of WoW. One side had to win.

    And why would Sylvanas join Garrosh? What purpose? I don't follow your logic. She is against him as are the other leaders.

    For the new leader, only one who can replace Sylvanas is Nathanos the Blightcaller, and the reasons are obvious.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Listen and read up on Sylvanas's quotes.

    "What are we if not slaves to this torment?"
    "What joy is there in this curse?"
    Never take melancholic rants of an elf seriously. Most of the Forsaken seem quite content with what they got, one of them even worked himself to become owner of a mansion.

    As for the whole "I hate Arthas for what he did to me", I think it was the whole "control your every step" thing that pissed them off. You wouldnt be happy should you become part of a new bridge to silvermoon.

  9. #189
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valleera View Post

    As for what may happen... I think Sylvanas will eventually join up on Garroshs side of the last conflict. We'll probably have to burn through her Valkyr before we can deal with her. Bob will probably gladly deliver them to us if only to try and get out of his agreements with her if Vol'Jin will promise to protect the Bloodelf lands instead of the Forsaken. After all, 'de Amani need ta be watched'.

    Next in line will be tricky. People are calling for Voss, but she hates undeath and those who would put others through it. She's more likely to euthanize the entire Forsaken race and call it 'mercy'. Koltira may step up if that didn't reek so much of a watered down version of Bolvar follwing in Arthas' throne. At least he would still see the reasons to keep making new Forsaken, though not as aggressively as Sylvanas...
    It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
    I can completely debunk you right there. They have already told us that A: Sylvanas will be involved in ousting garrosh as warchief. and B: The next warchief will be involved in coming down heavy on sylvanas and her corrupt ways.

  10. #190
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Beware the living, their intro, "Plaguing an entire world proves to be a bit more complicated" and "Oh, <name>... the flowers are blooming in Hillsbrad and the air is so fresh and brisk. I can't help but to wallow in the misery of it all. I look out my grimy window and long for the day when our New Plague brings this world the death it deserves." etc.
    Combine this with the fact they hold no loyalties to the Horde and actively betray them, do experiments behind their back can you really say they even think of the Horde as allies? The Horde has always been a tool for Sylvanas to further their race.
    They resent life.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:06 PM ----------



    Listen and read up on Sylvanas's quotes.

    "What are we if not slaves to this torment?"
    "What joy is there in this curse?"
    The stuff you quoted was all before events of battle for Undercity, where Putress was still the leader of Apothecary Society, and we all know what happened to him.

    "Beware of the living" since, you know, 5 out of 9 living races are their enemies.

  11. #191
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    The stuff you quoted was all before events of battle for Undercity, where Putress was still the leader of Apothecary Society, and we all know what happened to him.
    The second quote is from Lydon. He got promoted, don't tell me he was blindly following Putress. Up until the point Putress betrayed everybody nobody had a problem with him, that should speak to you about the attitude most of the Forsaken and Sylvanas have, the fact Putress betrayed the Forsaken doesn't suddenly mean that all Apothecaries were lead astray. The creation of it and it's purpose were and have remained the same. Practically Apothecaries speak of blighting Azeroth, not just the Alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    "Beware of the living" since, you know, 5 out of 9 living races are their enemies.
    Right.....now you're just trying wriggle out of this.
    It couldn't have anything to do with the fact they resent life as a whole? Again they don't like the Horde, they are just using them so that they can get rid of one faction so that they turn on the other.
    Last edited by Scummer; 2012-10-11 at 11:34 AM.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    It couldn't have anything to do with the fact they resent life as a whole? Again they don't like the Horde, they are just using them so that they can get rid of one faction so that they turn on the other.
    I bet you resent cockroaches too.

  13. #193
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I bet you resent cockroaches too.
    Hissing Cockroaches make for good pets .

  14. #194
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    The second quote is from Lydon. He got promoted, don't tell me he was blindly following Putress. Up until the point Putress betrayed everybody nobody had a problem with him, that should speak to you about the attitude most of the Forsaken and Sylvanas have, the fact Putress betrayed the Forsaken doesn't suddenly mean that all Apothecaries were lead astray. The creation of it and it's purpose were and have remained the same. Practically Apothecaries speak of blighting Azeroth, not just the Alliance.
    Of course not. Production of the plague continued for the war purposes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    Right.....now you're just trying wriggle out of this.
    It couldn't have anything to do with the fact they resent life as a whole? Again they don't like the Horde, they are just using them so that they can get rid of one faction so that they turn on the other.
    Beware =/= Kill.

    Beware means to be cautious around living since most of the living doesn't understand undeath.

  15. #195
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Beware =/= Kill.

    Beware means to be cautious around living since most of the living doesn't understand undeath.
    They don't trust the living.
    They hate the living.
    They don't see the Horde as allies, merely tools to further their agenda. They hate the Alliance more, bu it doesn't mean they like or have respect for their "allies".Their agenda has always been to blight Azeroth

  16. #196
    Scarab Lord Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Ogres, cool.
    Saurok, cool.
    Naga, cool.
    Ethereals, cool.
    Drakonids, cool.
    Hell, even Arakkoa are cool.

    A third elf playable race? Not cool. Regardless of the lore.
    Make it a skin choice of NEs that can only be caster type classes and be done with it.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
    You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.

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  17. #197
    Warchief sam86's Avatar
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    First of all, while the valkyr do raise people from death, you have free will 100% and they can go back die, or even not joining undead ranks and join however you want, the racism of other races toward any undead however may make that extremely hard
    As for Forsaken now
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:A_Letter_Undelivered
    "Oh...my poor Thurman! I begged him to leave Agamand Mills with me and my father, but his family loyalty was too strong! And I knew it! I just knew it that Brand meant him harm!! Oh, curse this Plague, and the Scourge!
    <Yvette's face then smoothes and grows cold.>
    But regrets are for the weak. As a Forsaken, I have new goals and love is not one of them. I would thank you for delivering this letter, for I had wondered what happened to my past love.
    But that life is over. Forever."
    That is the Forsaken now
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  18. #198
    Personally I really don't know if they kill Sylvannas or not. I think there will be plenty of reasons in order after Garrosh to finish Sylvannas. However seeing how many fangirls Sylvannas have I doubt they will go for her Lich Queen or not.

    There hasn't been a Single Game where you could find a Good Undead. The Undead for some reason have a hate to the living either it is little or a lot.

    I understand that the Forsaken do not have anywhere else to go due to that curse they call undeath as almost noone would accept them. However as it is proven many many times and the forsaken fangirls don't want to see there have been those few who would help them find a cure to their curse. Perhaps something that could turn them to normal again. Everything is possible with magic. Sylvannas though instead of trying to stay somewhere peacefully trying to find a cure wants to make the rest of Azeroth suffer the same fate of undeath. There are so many clues in the game that if you cannot see it you are either a fanatic forsaken fangirl or not very clever.

    And as Traask said the next Warchief will finally finish the whole World Domination plans of Sylvannas. Though Traask can you provide that link to me in order to read it also to see details?
    Last edited by Darth-Pinkaminus-Piekus; 2012-10-11 at 12:55 PM.

  19. #199
    Warchief sam86's Avatar
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    Another quest from vanilla wow identify Forsaken were betraying the horde before the alliance
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Nothing_But_The_Truth
    "Please have mercy on me! I have information that goes beyond alliance boundaries. While I am no sympathizer of the Horde, there is political treachery going on that must be revealed!"
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    Another quest from vanilla wow identify Forsaken were betraying the horde before the alliance
    http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Nothing_But_The_Truth
    "Please have mercy on me! I have information that goes beyond alliance boundaries. While I am no sympathizer of the Horde, there is political treachery going on that must be revealed!"
    I think that was leading to the wrathgate, nothing more.

    The fact that they were sent by Varimathras confirms it.

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