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  1. #1

    Rotation Fine tuning

    So i'm all geared up and ready to raid but i'm not quite pulling the DPS that i was expecting. My gear is ilvl 465 and on a standard rotation (no pots, trinkets, or haste buffs) i'm getting about 38k DPS. How does that compare? I'm seeing numbers in the realm of 70k on World of Logs but those will all be raid buffed etc etc.

    I've been reading plenty of forums and have a few questions about my rotation and the priority of which spells i'm using.

    Firstly i saw some advice to cast CoE and Haunt pre-pull. Do these act like Hunter's Mark and have no agro affect on the boss? I didn't want to test it in raid incase i got everyone killed

    Secondly which is more important -

    Keeping MG up throughout the entire duration of Haunt, or should you refresh anything that drops off while Haunt is active? I think refreshing DoTs below 8s before casting Haunt makes most sense, but wanted to see what others did.

    Same question about MG - If i don't have Haunt up and DoTs are ticking should i drop the MG cast to refresh DoTs, or let it run its full duration before refresh? I wasn't sure if cancelling out of MG mid cast was a loss to DPS.

  2. #2
    You want as close to 100% uptime on your DoTs as possible. You also cast CoE and Haunt at the pull so that your Haunt lands on the boss right after the tank reaches it. This should hopefully proc all of your trinkets/enchants/etc. so that you can go ahead and drop DS, SB:SS, and start MGing away.

    You should never be Haunting unless you can channel MG for the entire length of Haunt without anything dropping off. Refresh your DoTs that have less than 8s+travel time of Haunt before casting Haunt.

  3. #3
    Blademaster planktin's Avatar
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    Haunt after DoT application, it does have a travel time but its you can lose 1-2 seconds of haunt time due to GCD if you are haunting before Dark Soul and SB/SS

  4. #4
    My current rotation is

    CoE
    SB: SS
    Haunt
    MG

    It makes sense that by casting haunt early you'd miss a second or two. Aside from the initial hit damage Haunt's main power lies in the modifier to your other DoTs. Why would it be beneficial to cast it first?

  5. #5
    Don't cast Haunt or CoE at the pull. If you're going to pre-cast something, pre-cast Unstable Affliction and apply the other DoTs manually. Cast CoE either directly after your DoTs go up OR if you're not going to Fel Flame during Haunt's flight time, during that. Since CoE is a debuff your DoTs will update dynamically, there's no reason to have it up first, you're wasting your pre-cast. If you pre-cast Haunt then you're wasting a GCD in between where your Haunt isn't modifying anything or it's modifying a non-CoE-ed set of DoTs.

  6. #6
    Just to make sure this gets mentioned: Haunt and Curse of the Elements will most definitely pull aggro if you try to put them up before the pull.

    The idea is you have Haunt traveling through the air while the tank pulls and that you can then instantly put your dots up for less down time. I wouldn't even begin to try this if your raid team doesn't have a well coordinated and timed pull scheme.
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  7. #7
    Pre-Pot -> CoE -> DS -> SB:SS -> Haunt -> Filler

    Don't cast Haunt unless you have > 9 seconds left (Haunt takes time to hit the target) on all DoTs to ensure MG or Drain Soul channeling for the entire duration of the Haunt debuff. Haunt is basically a DPS CD, however instead of a CD to manage you have shards, the only realistic time to maintain 100% up-time for Haunt is during execute phase.
    It is better to have raided and wiped, then to never have raided at all.

  8. #8
    Do you actually mg until haunt runs out completely? Or refresh haunt at about 2s to compensate for cast/travel time?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by echopapa View Post
    Do you actually mg until haunt runs out completely? Or refresh haunt at about 2s to compensate for cast/travel time?
    MG until it runs out, you don't have 100% uptime on haunt anyway, losing 2 seconds of it to apply another haunt early is not going to get you dps, it'll lower your total haunt uptime.

  10. #10
    hmmm.. ive been cutting it off all this time. just to try and keep it up at all times, but i see what you're saying about that ultimately ending up in lower haunt uptime when i dont have shards b/c im wasting 2 seconds of it

    another question i have that i havent seen discussed much is when and how often people use fel flame besides when theyre moving. I try to use it for a quick refresh of my dots when i see my buffs proc and im able to get a haunt up immediately after. Is there a different way i should be doing it?

  11. #11
    Haunt has higher DPET than MG. Haunt on Haunt is better than MG on Haunt. Haunt does not lose uptime by applying another Haunt early, it acts as a dot, if you clip it at ~2 seconds remaining the remainder of the duration will be added to the reapplication, PLUS it gains additional damage from itself. I'd lose about 17k damage by not clipping a Haunt, I lose much less by lost MG uptime.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldraz View Post
    So i'm all geared up and ready to raid but i'm not quite pulling the DPS that i was expecting. My gear is ilvl 465 and on a standard rotation (no pots, trinkets, or haste buffs) i'm getting about 38k DPS. How does that compare? I'm seeing numbers in the realm of 70k on World of Logs but those will all be raid buffed etc etc.

    I've been reading plenty of forums and have a few questions about my rotation and the priority of which spells i'm using.

    Firstly i saw some advice to cast CoE and Haunt pre-pull. Do these act like Hunter's Mark and have no agro affect on the boss? I didn't want to test it in raid incase i got everyone killed

    Secondly which is more important -

    Keeping MG up throughout the entire duration of Haunt, or should you refresh anything that drops off while Haunt is active? I think refreshing DoTs below 8s before casting Haunt makes most sense, but wanted to see what others did.

    Same question about MG - If i don't have Haunt up and DoTs are ticking should i drop the MG cast to refresh DoTs, or let it run its full duration before refresh? I wasn't sure if cancelling out of MG mid cast was a loss to DPS.
    The prepull - Is a dps gain, but not a big one. (It does give aggro tho, so do it when pulltimer-reaches zero/tank pulls). I would actually not advice doing Haunt in the opener, as you need a global to apply dots and CoE. On feng for example, I would go CoE->Dark Soul->SB-SS>Haunt->MG->MG->MG.

    Here comes my personal problem, but here i normally reapply all 3 dots for the hasted dots (But could also refresh UA, Haunt, MG,MG,Corruption). I am torn on this one.

    In general, its best to "plan" ahead, and refresh dots, (With Pandemic), so you get extra long dots, and then Haunt->MG>MG->MG.
    Cancelling MG also is a dps loss if you do it wrong. You should get an castbar, where you can see ticks, so you can cancel is apropriate.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 06:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoboMog123 View Post
    Haunt has higher DPET than MG. Haunt on Haunt is better than MG on Haunt. Haunt does not lose uptime by applying another Haunt early, it acts as a dot, if you clip it at ~2 seconds remaining the remainder of the duration will be added to the reapplication, PLUS it gains additional damage from itself. I'd lose about 17k damage by not clipping a Haunt, I lose much less by lost MG uptime.
    So you can actually Haunt back to back, as its affected by Pandemic?
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Faylo View Post

    So you can actually Haunt back to back, as its affected by Pandemic?
    No. It's not affected by pandemic. It does seem to have hidden ticks, but it looks like it goes up to a max of 10 seconds. So, as long as it lands as the current Haunt has <2 seconds left, you won't lose any uptime and the second Haunt will deal 25% more damage.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoboMog123 View Post
    No. It's not affected by pandemic. It does seem to have hidden ticks, but it looks like it goes up to a max of 10 seconds. So, as long as it lands as the current Haunt has <2 seconds left, you won't lose any uptime and the second Haunt will deal 25% more damage.
    Intresting, so if you apply it (lands) at 1,5 sec left, your Haunt will last 9,5 secs (8+1,5) ?
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    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  15. #15
    talking about a castbar that shoows ticks, i use gnosis but it doesn't show me the ticks of MG, DS works though, is gnosis bugged or do i have to change smth in the options to see them?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoboMog123 View Post
    Haunt has higher DPET than MG. Haunt on Haunt is better than MG on Haunt. Haunt does not lose uptime by applying another Haunt early, it acts as a dot, if you clip it at ~2 seconds remaining the remainder of the duration will be added to the reapplication, PLUS it gains additional damage from itself. I'd lose about 17k damage by not clipping a Haunt, I lose much less by lost MG uptime.
    Edit: I originally said you were wrong - then I realized that the answer is far more complex.
    Last edited by Rustjive; 2012-10-12 at 02:26 PM.

  17. #17
    Also, don't forget that Haunt's damage is affected by Haunt. Yes, Haunt will buff the damage of Haunt as long as your second Haunt hits while the first Haunt is still active.

    Haunt is one of those words that looks/sounds weird if you use it too often in a short span of time.

    Haunt...
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  18. #18
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Also, don't forget that Haunt's damage is affected by Haunt. Yes, Haunt will buff the damage of Haunt as long as your second Haunt hits while the first Haunt is still active.
    Just keep its travel time in mind.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    Don't cast Haunt unless you have > 9 seconds left (Haunt takes time to hit the target) on all DoTs to ensure MG or Drain Soul channeling for the entire duration of the Haunt debuff.
    Do you refresh your dots if they're all under 9 seconds before re casting Haunt? Or wait till the dots allign eventually and theyre all over 9 seconds.

    For example, if i don't make any sense
    Cor - 2 seconds left
    agony - 7 seconds left
    UA - 15+ seconds left

    Do you recast cor then agony then haunt? OR wait until they align all over 9 seconds each? Sorry if this doesn't make sense.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    Don't cast Haunt or CoE at the pull. If you're going to pre-cast something, pre-cast Unstable Affliction and apply the other DoTs manually. Cast CoE either directly after your DoTs go up OR if you're not going to Fel Flame during Haunt's flight time, during that. Since CoE is a debuff your DoTs will update dynamically, there's no reason to have it up first, you're wasting your pre-cast. If you pre-cast Haunt then you're wasting a GCD in between where your Haunt isn't modifying anything or it's modifying a non-CoE-ed set of DoTs.
    Considering CoE is for the benefit of all your casters in the raid, I would always cast it first. I don't really agree with applying dots manually. I've been trying this opener recently: Haunt>CoE>SB:SS>MG>MG. It takes a GCD for haunt to hit your target anyway, depending on travel time. You might as well get your dots out in 1 GCD rather than 3, have the haunt debuff up ready for MG. Of course, this is something I'm constantly experimenting with.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 11:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dyzzl View Post
    Do you refresh your dots if they're all under 9 seconds before re casting Haunt? Or wait till the dots allign eventually and theyre all over 9 seconds.

    For example, if i don't make any sense
    Cor - 2 seconds left
    agony - 7 seconds left
    UA - 15+ seconds left

    Do you recast cor then agony then haunt? OR wait until they align all over 9 seconds each? Sorry if this doesn't make sense.
    Good question. To be honest, in this situation I'd leave UA and cast agony and Corruption, because I know I can get a haunt cast and 2-3 MG casts out before I need to refresh UA.

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