Thread: Crit>Haste?

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  1. #1

    Crit>Haste?

    Now that 2 weeks of raids are out I'm starting to think crit is better then haste.

    Haste increases energy regen which I don't really see the difference between 10.25 energy per sec to 11, secondly it increases melee speed so more melees obvi

    Then there's crit, my argument is based around blackout kick being the most damage ability and that crits to 100k + second is that I'm running with the DMC and searing words which both proc off crit, with good crits I'm at 66k on feng and not so good crits I'm around 60k

    So should I/we be stacking crit

  2. #2
    I'm not a WW but I was wondering this last night when doing dailies on my fiancee who DOES have a WW offspec. Usually I have her on follow on my ret pally who does crap damage, I decided to switch since she got a 489 fist off Garajal for her offspec (rogue was gone that night heh) and she was just obliterating mobs when she got crits. I was seeing 168k on RSK, 100k on BoK with Tiger Palm stacked and brew up. When she didn't crit, well, it felt more like my ret pally's normal damage.

    Is there some kind of set break-even point for haste for you guys?

  3. #3
    remember more mele hits is also increasing that auto attack procc and more haste = more jab or SCK = less down time, haste is capped til some point (6.6k haste i believe).

  4. #4
    High Overlord Dalmasca's Avatar
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    Speaking from a WW stand point, I say that Haste > Crit right now. Faster auto-attack, and more energy regen.
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  5. #5
    Stat weights are not based on how you, or anyone, feels about things.

  6. #6
    I don't feel like Crit is better than Haste now, but there will be a breakpoint in gear that comes pretty quickly where it will be. That's the point at which our resources are overstocked (when you have procs from mastery, some chi to spend, and energy besides and because you have so much to do with your present resources, some of them will expire). The point at which other resources start being wasted is the point at which haste becomes less attractive. Because our mastery and our haste give us additional resources and jab/EH give us a lot of chi to spend, this is going to be a problem at some point in this expansion.

    A simple solution to this would be to make mastery procs not trigger the GCD or to just auto-fire, at which point the class will not run into a problem of soft/hard caps on every stat besides crit at high gear levels. But maybe someone has some math that will show that such haste levels are impossible. I'm open to math, it's nice.

  7. #7
    Pandaren Monk schwank05's Avatar
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    Our Monk, was all setup as crit. Then went haste, he swears it was around a 10k loss doing so. This is all I have to go off.

  8. #8
    It's been posted that haste IS better (supported by math somewhere around here by Mihir and the likes) until a certain point. At about 6.6-6.7k haste rating it loses out to crit

    Also, doing better one night by reforging into an RNG stat shouldn't be how you choose.
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  9. #9
    That said, there are a number of reasons why haste might perform better on some fights vs. others. Fights with a lot of downtime or range issues might favor crit, as the energy regen of haste is not that important. Trash that dies within the opening GCD locked stage of a pull won't be much affected by haste either. Simply having 5% extra time between keystrokes can weight the balance of the two stats, and simulations often consider players better able to hammer keys than I've often found they actually do. That said, haste really is better at this stage of gear.

    As an aside, does anyone know if any of our guides list haste breakpoints for when we get extra ticks from FoF or SCK (or if we even do)?

  10. #10
    Brewmaster Advent's Avatar
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    I don't think FoF benefits from haste.

  11. #11
    worldoflogs (dot) com/reports/rt-eeo09wi9b6xad3bk/sum/damageDone/?s=3244&e=3546#Lazerfeet

    Can't post links but here I was mostly crit for this

  12. #12
    According to armory, you have 3740 haste and 3527 crit. That's not "mostly crit" by a long shot. Nobody said crit outright sucks, haste is simmed to be a little better but the difference is quite minimal.

    Also, posting logs of Gara'jal, which is a gimmick fight, is kind of useless. You can top that while stacking mastery if you tell your paladins to LoH you every time you're in spirit realm. Granted, your DPS is very good on other fights too. I'd say you're just a very good player that knows what they're doing while focusing on stat that's second best by only a very small margin.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazerfeet View Post
    Now that 2 weeks of raids are out I'm starting to think crit is better then haste.

    Haste increases energy regen which I don't really see the difference between 10.25 energy per sec to 11, secondly it increases melee speed so more melees obvi

    Then there's crit, my argument is based around blackout kick being the most damage ability and that crits to 100k + second is that I'm running with the DMC and searing words which both proc off crit, with good crits I'm at 66k on feng and not so good crits I'm around 60k

    So should I/we be stacking crit
    How much % haste are you at? Cause I can really feel the difference with more haste on my Windwalker, not to mention I've upped my DPS since I went for more Haste.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I don't think FoF benefits from haste.
    Doing Alysrazor, having 20 haste stacks reduces it to 2.4 so I'd say its possible to affect it by haste.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Asacado View Post
    Doing Alysrazor, having 20 haste stacks reduces it to 2.4 so I'd say its possible to affect it by haste.
    Channel time is reduced by haste, yes.

    People are acting like it should get extra ticks at haste plateaus for some reason. Pretty sure that's why people are whining about it "not scaling with haste".

    I have no idea why they would think that it would work that way, though.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Illitti View Post
    Stat weights are not based on how you, or anyone, feels about things.
    Truth.

    Haste procs from windsong and trinkets, and bloodlust, will make crit more valuable. So for very short fights you may want to reforge crit over haste. But for most normal length encounters and especially heroic, haste > crit > mastery > white hit for our stat weights. Expertise soft-cap and yellow-hit capped are assumed.

    Haste and mastery interact in an annoying way though that as either rise, you have less and less free GCD's to use your abilities. Once we reach a certain gear level, which happens soon I think, we will be reforging into crit as much as we can because of the haste and mastery on our gear.

  17. #17
    I did a few tests with this. Three 6 mins attempts on dummy with reforge haste or reforged crit.

    haste avg: 62k
    crit avg: 58k

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Illitti View Post
    According to armory, you have 3740 haste and 3527 crit. That's not "mostly crit" by a long shot. Nobody said crit outright sucks, haste is simmed to be a little better but the difference is quite minimal.

    Also, posting logs of Gara'jal, which is a gimmick fight, is kind of useless. You can top that while stacking mastery if you tell your paladins to LoH you every time you're in spirit realm. Granted, your DPS is very good on other fights too. I'd say you're just a very good player that knows what they're doing while focusing on stat that's second best by only a very small margin.
    First yea armory was changed due to me using a coin and getting shoulders on that fight, I didn't go in the spirit realm idk if that make a difference. I was also mostly crit on that feng kill too. Whenni said mostly crit I just ment I had more crit then haste

  19. #19
    Hey guys

    Iam capped at 7,5% hit and softcapped Expertise 7,5%

    After that I have been reforging and gemming for haste. Though, it seems like I need quite a high amount of haste before I can feel a difference? Is that true or? I was just wondering if it could be an idea to go for crit or simply dodge/parry/mastery untill you reach a certain lvl of gear so you can get a haste % that matters.

    I have no clue if this make sense to you or if its just totally wrong. No math in it. Only thoughts

    /Boombrew

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Kyuubi87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boombrew View Post
    Hey guys

    Iam capped at 7,5% hit and softcapped Expertise 7,5%

    After that I have been reforging and gemming for haste. Though, it seems like I need quite a high amount of haste before I can feel a difference? Is that true or? I was just wondering if it could be an idea to go for crit or simply dodge/parry/mastery untill you reach a certain lvl of gear so you can get a haste % that matters.

    I have no clue if this make sense to you or if its just totally wrong. No math in it. Only thoughts

    /Boombrew
    I'm on 9.80% haste and I can see a difference in DPS in our raids. For some reason the gem slots and gems in my belt isn't showing on the armory. Anyway, here's my Armory: Rikudou

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