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  1. #41
    Gratz to them, though I thought most people stopped caring about world firsts in general after Lich king 25man heroic world first :P.
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  2. #42
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    first of all four kings is not exactly thread worthy - it's not like they killed Emperors. secondly, when you get a kill this way with no competition it's not that glamorous, compared to the ongoing competition of 25man guilds.

    its funny because if you look it 10man wise Paragon has no competition since there are no other that good 10er guilds, while on the 25man you have very strong old rivals.

    paragon will probably be the first to clear it because they are 25man raiders, not a 10man guild. so when you pick the best from the best guild and give them no competition it's clear they will tear shit apart.
    This post is dripping idiocy.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    If ONE person makes a mistake with Arcane Resonance in 10 man on Feng, you just killed the entire raid. It works both ways you know

    Can you fuck up slightly on 10 man? You can and still have a battleress
    Can you fuck up slightly on 25 man? You can and still have several battle resses
    Except in 10 man you have very few people that can get the debuff and noticing it is a LOT easier.

  4. #44
    Paragon only went to 10 man because they couldn't continue as a 25 man guild.

    Not really. If ONE person makes a mistake with Arcane Resonance in 25 man on Feng, you just killed 20+ people. And 25 people means a lot more players to mess up an Arcane Resonance.
    The hardest encounters always count on every last DPS, Healer and Tank to execute perfectly at maximum throughput during progression. if one of your DPS was subpar or dead on P3 Heroic Rag, your 25M raid wasn't going to beat it with 2 meteors.

    This "there is more slack in 25s" argument only holds up to normal modes (sometimes) and maybe the Halfus/Morchok/Shannox level heroics.
    Last edited by Vulgrym; 2012-10-10 at 11:04 PM.
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  5. #45
    Calling Paragon underdgos is the most retarded thing i have ever read....

  6. #46
    Player that has 0 normal mode kills of any boss: "ermahgerd 10 manz ernt reel raidz."

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    If ONE person makes a mistake with Arcane Resonance in 10 man on Feng, you just killed the entire raid. It works both ways you know

    Can you fuck up slightly on 10 man? You can and still have a battleress
    Can you fuck up slightly on 25 man? You can and still have several battle resses
    No in 25 you have more chance to fail overall...there is a reason many endgame guilds switch over to 10 man for the perfect setup.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by yomon348 View Post
    So they are 4/6 H already!! Grats to them.

    I think this proves that 10 man raiding is easier than 25 man.
    and the fact that 8 guilds are 3/6 and ALL OF THEM are 25 man. Paragon is only 10 man to kill 3rd boss on 10 man let alone 4th.
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  9. #49
    Dreadlord Choice's Avatar
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    I'm surprised people are still insistent about this whole '25 man is the only competitive raiding', it's been two years since they were standardised. Yes, the balance is hit and miss and no fight can be truly, unambiguously equal to it's counterpart. But ultimately those imbalances converge to a situation where you need to take everything with a grain of salt.

    Tier 11 was obviously harder as 10 man due to poor scaling, while t13 favoured 25 man in terms of difficulty bar stupid scaling of Spine that demanded class stacked. Every fight bar Spine had more forgiving mechanics as a 25 man raid. You can't simply say that 25 man will always be considered more difficult.

    The whole idea of the coordination requirement for 25 man vs 10 has always bothered me since that's something people sign up for. And if the guild is productive at all there shouldn't be a difference in organisation.

    This tier is still early days and as someone who's waiting to continue pushing for a world top 10 rank, I can say that the scaling is close enough to be irrelevant. Paragon's effort to overtake US guilds in this little time is a feat in itself, the mechanics are tuned tight as fuck for 25 and I wouldn't doubt that 10 man wouldn't be that far off it. Or else the top list would be filled with 10 man guilds that no one has ever heard of.

    It's been two years guys, time to grow up and recognise the efforts of 10 man guilds as equal to 25 man.

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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by scdogg44 View Post
    I'll be so happy to see a 10 man guild win world first. Just to piss off all the "25 IS HARD THEN 10 Fan boys".

    This debate will never end lol, it's so funny to see people rage so hard over world first raiders on a fucking video game.

    Hey guys, little trivia.

    Without looking it up who where the world first guilds for the following.

    Lurker below
    Sarth 3D 10
    Malygos 25
    Gruuls lair
    Twins

    Point proven? No one gives a shit about world firsts after its been done.
    Gonna go with SK gaming/ensidia for everything on that list that was BC.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Tumadre80 View Post
    Wow, looks like the underdogs are on top. Four Kings downed as of 4:58pm EST (New York)
    10 man doesn't matter.

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans starkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexterz View Post
    I wouldn´t say World first, they are First 10 man. 10 man doesn´t count to World First.
    does it matter there 4/6 regardless, everyone knows 25 man is a 10 man with 15 people getting carried
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  13. #53
    The Patient Valkari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuthe View Post
    Go DREAM PARA!

    Pity they had to drop down to 10man, but oh well.

    Also, I hope that for 5.2 when the next raid comes out, there is no week of normal raiding, then off to heroic.
    We need Heroic straight away.
    They can get accustomed to the fights even easier if they get a week to plan during Normal.
    You've always had to kill the normal mode in order to get to heroic, the only difference here was that they delayed the normal mode by a week. (well, and the other raids, I guess)

  14. #54
    if they pooped on everyone in 25man, what do you think they would do when they get their best 10 players and downsize...

  15. #55
    Brewmaster Raxxed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Player that has 0 normal mode kills of any boss: "ermahgerd 10 manz ernt reel raidz."
    If there were actually credible people stating logical arguments about why 25>10 then fine. But as the post i've quoted sums up 99.99% of the people spouting total garbage havnt walked into a hardmode, yet alone normal.

    People are too stuck up on the concept of wotlk 10mans,being literally easier and tuned down.

    There are fights that are easier on 10.
    There are fights that are easier on 25.
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    Blizzard offered cardboard cut outs with poster pictures of bosses stapled on them upside down and sideways and many players now feel that is raiding.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    And 25man counts more than 10man becausssssse?
    you have no idea what you have just started

  17. #57
    Sorry 10 man doesn't count.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharli View Post
    *sighs* Y.E.S it DOES!
    N.O it DOESNT !

  19. #59
    10man counts just as much as 25man, stop being stupid.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by scdogg44 View Post
    I'll be so happy to see a 10 man guild win world first. Just to piss off all the "25 IS HARD THEN 10 Fan boys".

    This debate will never end lol, it's so funny to see people rage so hard over world first raiders on a fucking video game.

    Hey guys, little trivia.

    Without looking it up who where the world first guilds for the following.

    Lurker below
    Sarth 3D 10
    Malygos 25
    Gruuls lair
    Twins

    Point proven? No one gives a shit about world firsts after its been done.
    Off the top of my head Lurker was Nihilum, Sarth was some alliance guild I think, Twins was Nihilum before SK went ahead, Gruul was Nihilum? People forget who came 2nd but do give a shit about world firsts, if everyone forgot after 5 mins then what would be the point. Everyone who played back then will remember who got Chun and KT.

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