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  1. #61
    Although 10man is easier, I'm happy to once again see EU on the top.

  2. #62
    Newsflash: there's 2 categorys of raiding, there's 2 categorys of world firsts.

    These shouldn't be compared, so please stop doing it. You can value 25 higher if you want (mostly because it's more difficult more often than not), but Paragon still got world first (10 man). Now we just wait who gets world first in 25 man.

  3. #63
    Cheaters don't interest me. Regardless of whether they are 10 man or 25.

  4. #64
    Paragon went 10 man shortly before MoP so they ruled themself out of the race.

  5. #65
    There are more 25 man guilds in top 20 than 10 man guilds, therefore 25 man raiding most be easier, thus making 10 man harder. Hurp

  6. #66
    We will see when the entire vault is cleared on H. Some fights are harder in 10 and some harder in 25 (in past raids, don't know about vault) so that balances out somewhat. The major disadvantage in 10man is with item drops. Certain trinkets boost dps a lot more than others so if some trinkets don't drop and they need that dps then their progress will hit a snag.

    I just hope people don't start saying "that fight is overtuned" argument when this happens to paragon and continues to say 10man is easier.
    their moving their table over their
    they're moving they're table over they're
    there moving there table over there

  7. #67
    so many people saying 10 man doesn't count but with no explanation of why it doesn't count

    os3d before the zerg tactic was alot harder on 10 man and thats a fact. sure some fights are going to be easier on 10 man and others on 25 man but that shouldn't mean 10 man is dismissed as not important. first kill is first kill regardless of if your doing it 10 man or 25

    if anything the stats would suggest 25 man is easier than 10 man. 19 of the 49 guilds who are 2/6 or better heroic are 10 man meaning 30 25 man guilds have managed to down feng despite the fact there are more 10 man raiding guilds. and out of those 49 guilds 8 of them are 3/6 or better and there is only 1 10 man guild in that group, again suggesting the fight is easier on 25 man.

    now i don't raid or have any experience in the heroic raids but there is no point coming into a thread because a 10 man guild has taken the lead in the race for world first and saying it doesn't matter without any real basis for saying it.

    anyway grats to paragon, and the other EU guilds who have all caught up with the US guilds extremely quickly

  8. #68
    World first 10 man.

    IMO 25 mans is where the real competition is as it takes a lot more skill to coordinate 24 other people in the raid. Also harder to get 25 good players to start a raiding seem. Hence why when paragon lost players it was just easier for them to do the easy thing and go 10 man.

  9. #69
    Paragon themselves are saying the races between 25 and 10 are to be kept separate, because they are incomparable. Quit using them as your crutch when they aren't after 25s in the first place.

    Proof (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...st-Race/page22)

  10. #70
    The problem with looking at firsts with 10 and 25 is that any given fight can throw the race so far off that you can't judge it. If Feng was harder for 25 man vs. 10 and the 10 man breezed through it, and then the rest is equal, well 10 man now has the advantage because the fights weren't balanced properly for both. I think Blizz needs to go back to the BC model for raids. 1 difficulty and that is it.

  11. #71
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    World first 10 man.

    Congratulations to them. Wonder who will grab the 25 man version world first.
    Two races two prices

  12. #72
    On the 10 is easier than 25man talk heres some interesting statistics, as of right now there is
    1/6H - 25man = 109 10man = 109
    2/6H - 25man= 27 10man = 23
    3/6H - 25man = 7 10man = 1

    I have always been an advocate that 25man is harder, more people, more variables, more lag etc but would appear that as of the moment 10mans are "harder" than 25s though Spirit Kings 10man could just be a faceroll with them going to bed waking up and smashing it out right away (though is did take them 9 hours according to wow progress)

    Definitely too early to say which is "easier" but give it time and we'll see which ends up having a higher percentage of kills

    GG PARAGON!
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)

    We're confident the .01% left will be thrilled to attend a post-apocalyptic BlizzCon.

  13. #73
    High Overlord
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    seems like they just killed Elegon as well

  14. #74

  15. #75
    this thread is gona get closed soon because 10vs 25man -__- seriously guys who cares omg its same arguement over and over again, just watch till the end will ya???

    also gratz paragon you go get them last bosses

  16. #76
    Why doesn't anyone argue 40 is where it's at. Or remember before wow? 75 mans were where true raiders competed.

    Here's a bit of advice, if you aren't raiding at that level of callibur, focus on your own gameplay and let the top raiders fight about 10vs25.

  17. #77
    While I think the 25 man race is certainly more interesting as a whole, I won't slam Paragon for this achievement - it's really impressive.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  18. #78
    If they get Sha of Fear heroic world first, or Protectors of the Endless ELITE world first (lol) on 10man, it is them who will be remembered in 2 years as a guild who got the world first. This is what matters. And 10man counts just as much as 25man. Its not like they would not have got the world firsts if they were 25man. They have always been the best, and will be.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    If they get Sha of Fear heroic world first, or Protectors of the Endless ELITE world first (lol) on 10man, it is them who will be remembered in 2 years as a guild who got the world first. This is what matters. And 10man counts just as much as 25man. Its not like they would not have got the world firsts if they were 25man. They have always been the best, and will be.
    the correct naming would be "Heroic Protectors of the Endless ELITE 10man world first"

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    If they get Sha of Fear heroic world first, or Protectors of the Endless ELITE world first (lol) on 10man, it is them who will be remembered in 2 years as a guild who got the world first. This is what matters. And 10man counts just as much as 25man. Its not like they would not have got the world firsts if they were 25man. They have always been the best, and will be.
    It certainl counts as a 10 man heroic world first.

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