T11 or This tier on heroic hardest?,

**niker99** · 2012-10-10, 11:32 PM

So far 4 Hc bosses is down cant remember if they went down as quick in T11 could someone remind me?,

**Aktec** · 2012-10-10, 11:41 PM

Just following Paragon they took 7 days to get their 4th boss down in T11 according to wowprogress

**niker99** · 2012-10-10, 11:43 PM

Seems like this tier/Upcoming raids will be easier and more and more for casuals then,(heroic)

**Carp The Fish** · 2012-10-10, 11:44 PM

Mogu'Shan Vaults is also the first of three parts of this tier. The other two have to be more challenging.

**Choice** · 2012-10-10, 11:49 PM

25 man is tight so far, Stone Guard is unforgiving but a well scaled entry level boss. Feng is hard with improper execution and with that fucking interaction bug that would cause you to be unable to even do the fight due to inability to target the crystals. Gara'jal is what we're on at the moment and it's a beast of a fight. Mechanically it's simple but it's extremely tight on all fronts and there's a lot of room in it's mechanics to allow for a good progression curve and experimentation.

t11 didn't have the same slap in the face since between the raids you could pick your curve with much more ease, from what I've seen from this it's more of a linear curve and with that theme continuing for NM I assume it might carry over into the whole tier.

**Theiea** · 2012-10-11, 12:01 AM

Id say its a little hard to compare the two since Tier 11 you had to bounce between 3 raids for progression. Its a linear path for this tier so far.

Also, the next 2 raids are a step up in difficulty (if item level from loot is any indication)

**Envisionist** · 2012-10-11, 12:07 AM

Tier 11 also had some very bugged bosses at the beginning IIRC.

**KaPe** · 2012-10-11, 12:53 AM

The fact that two first bosses have objects to interract with isn't really helping. Damn bugs.

**Foto** · 2012-10-11, 01:03 AM

You have to remember for T11 there was no week break from release to raids, there was no BMAH, earning VP was very difficult and could only be done in heroics, there was no "extra loot" option from charms, no world bosses and there was no staggered raid release. So there was no easy way to get gear - there is a lot of players from high end guilds with 480+ilvl atm, which compared to what players were like in T11 is significantly higher.

Paragon is the creme of the crop and it shows in this progression they are pumping out.

Tier 11 was a different experience; first week roughly 350 guilds had downed all 12 bosses but first week of T14 there was well over 1000 with 6/6 cleared. Less optional bosses right away more focussed progression path. They are probably equally as difficult but better wait and see how the next 2 raids turn out as blizzard have scaled them to be harder than MSV

**Mammoon** · 2012-10-11, 01:33 AM

We have seen 1/3 of this tier, and we are only into the first week or heroics....

Sorry, it is way way way way way way way too early to judge whether this or tier 11 is harder on heroic.

**kaamila** · 2012-10-11, 04:00 AM

all my friends in 25 man guilds say heroic stone guard is a loot pinata on 25, although the other bosses are much harder

**adelerollsinthedeep** · 2012-10-11, 04:01 AM

this is the easy part the best is yet to come

**Konics** · 2012-10-11, 04:15 AM

Can't say yet but I think T11 boss for boss was probably the hardest tier ever. I also include the fact that when cata first came out heroic 5s were actually hard and getting your whole raid in blues from heroic 5s was not easy/took alot of time so for the most part everyone was pretty undergeared going in.

All the end bosses were brutal...nef, chogall/sinestra, alakir. Even a few fillers like omnotron defense system and ascendant council were tough.

T11 was also the only tier in which 10s might have been a bit harder (as it varied alot from boss to boss) or at least equal to 25s in terms of difficulty.

**Aoyi** · 2012-10-11, 04:19 AM

Personally, I'm finding this tier is much harder for my guild than tier 11 for some reason, though it seems to mostly be on the tanks. I went from quick normal clears and right into heroic progression last expansion to wiping for hours in normal mode. To be fair, I'm in a new guild with new players, but its rather annoying. I'm not really happy being 2 resets into a tier with only a single normal mode boss down, but I'm on a new server and trying things out here.

**jbombard** · 2012-10-11, 04:43 AM

Is Mogushan vaults actually this tier or is it like the .5 version? No tier gear actually drops in mogushan vaults.

**Tehterokkar** · 2012-10-11, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Foto

You have to remember for T11 there was no week break from release to raids, there was no BMAH, earning VP was very difficult and could only be done in heroics, there was no "extra loot" option from charms, no world bosses and there was no staggered raid release. So there was no easy way to get gear - there is a lot of players from high end guilds with 480+ilvl atm, which compared to what players were like in T11 is significantly higher.

Paragon is the creme of the crop and it shows in this progression they are pumping out.

Tier 11 was a different experience; first week roughly 350 guilds had downed all 12 bosses but first week of T14 there was well over 1000 with 6/6 cleared. Less optional bosses right away more focussed progression path. They are probably equally as difficult but better wait and see how the next 2 raids turn out as blizzard have scaled them to be harder than MSV

You have to remember that MSV has only half of the bosses you have in T11, and not all guilds focused on all 3 raids(caused confusion) on the first week. Since MSV is a only 1 raid so far, people can focus their game on 1 raid. Also, you should have compared how many guilds killed either Nefarion or Cho'gall on the first week, to keep it fair for MSV(I'm betting it's over 1k, since Cho'gall was quite easy on normal)

**vizzle** · 2012-10-11, 04:57 AM

This is like the second day of raiding for heroic content... not even the second yet for Euros.

**Angarin** · 2012-10-11, 06:53 AM

Hard to say yet. I honestly sense empress & sha of fear will be another ragnaros heroic honestly. Possibly even a kil'jaeden.

Sha of fear just looks to intimidating to not make it practically impossible.

Blizzard has lfr & normal. They'd better not nerf heroic to a child's playtoy

**Seriss** · 2012-10-11, 08:43 AM

This tier feels very hard so far. But then again, many of our attempts at Stone Guard last night were screwed up by interaction bugs with the crystals which in turn ruined healer mana

I heard the hotfix for that issue is about to be implemented. I hope it'll be fixed by tonight. It's really not fun at all when you lose out on valuable tile stacks *cry*

**zaderp** · 2012-10-11, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by Envisionist

Tier 11 also had some very bugged bosses at the beginning IIRC.

Yup. Actually, half of the bosses in BWD (Magmaw, Atramedes and Nefarian) were extremely bugged when launched, and half of the bosses in the Throne of 4 winds were bugged aswell (Al'akir).

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