Thread: Resto Stats

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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    And I too would like to 2heal 10man so I can see if what you're talking about is really all that different.

    I agree with your note. But also understand oh if I had a dollar back in wrath for number of times I was told this.
    i have healed both and it is really different. You have to heal a lot more small damage than you do in 25 as your have druids and stuff that will slow heal them for you. furthermore you maintain a decent output with hw, rip, and hst but it isn't great. This is the first tier of the xpac so damage is low and far apart. Later (maybe even heart/terrace) you will see significant damage increases that require you to use more and more spells in the downtime. This is especially true if you have done the new heroics.

    The point we are trying to get across is that spirit is very good. Is it as good as intellect maybe, maybe not depending on where you sit and what you have at your disposal.
    but would i trade a blue with int/spirit for an epic with only int, hell no.

  2. #82
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    1) I was seeing the two attempts that ARE logged.
    2) You pointed out a huge difference between 10 man and 25 man. You said you can coast with casting Riptide, HW, HST and it's mana positive. I can't get away with coasting with positive mana gain because I have to help with keeping up the tanks, and quickly get up the raid. So, I'm having to weave in lots of ul/healing rains with chain heals, because I have to return to spamming healing wave (or greater heal, healing surge, etc) on a tank. And as hard as I try, that last tick of healing stream goes off mid-gcd and I miss the recall, damn it I'm working on that.
    3) Yeah, we do see things differently. Even on farm, I'm tweaking my playstyle and practicing good healing methods, which is why, my hps are consistent across my attempts barring early deaths. I would never just have a complacent attitude just because it's "farm". But that's what's fun for me. I don't expect everyone to think the same.
    4) I think we're saying the same thing. I always say balancing of stats is what's best. I think you can stack too much spirit, and I think you can have too little for the task at hand. I think it's easier to coast when you have 4 other healers, as opposed to 1 other healer that will burn through his/her mana when I'm "coasting". So, again, telling everyone that they should be able to survive with 5k spirit is not fair. I blast out a healing rain because I know those melee are going to take damage, and if I wait for them to take the damage and are half health, may be when I need to heal my tank. So, yeah...I don't ever just "coast". But again, Jynus...I think we're saying the same thing. The core point really is...take as much spirit as you need for your given situation. If a shaman is just learning their healing style and their raid is learning a new fight, they will need more spirit. Now you on the other hand, a Shaman God, can get away with very little Just because I feel comfortable with more, does not mean that I don't heal intelligently. Get it?

    Jynus, again, no disrespect. I love a good shaman discussion. Great job on the rankings! I'll be keeping my eye on your progression

  3. #83
    Just my 2 cents here. I think that a lot of this spirit debate comes down to how good your raiders/healers are, your personal healing style as well as the healing style you have with your other healers, and if you are in 10/25 man.

    Taking the good raiders for example, the best guilds in the world were most likely could of cleared normal MV with half greens and blues, and they probably cleared H MV with only half or less 476/489 gear. Healers in this situation can easily do without the spirit levels that many other healers would find necessary do to a wealth of bonuses. Really strong dps push the fight faster, smart, efficient healers work with each others mana cd's and heal priorities at maximum effectiveness, or even dps who don't tunnel and properly utilize defensive cds or extra heals.

    My point is, imo, no one is wrong about spirit. While the math may show that spirit is better than int by a factor of whatever, this doesn't mean that it is right under every circumstance. The math cannot factor in all the things I listed above, only basic throughput values. That's fine though, because for most average/casual raiders, it will be sufficient. For those who want to be more precise and min max their efficiency though, it's kind of like what I used to read as when I was ele, "go sim for yourself".

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    i have healed both and it is really different. You have to heal a lot more small damage than you do in 25 as your have druids and stuff that will slow heal them for you. furthermore you maintain a decent output with hw, rip, and hst but it isn't great. This is the first tier of the xpac so damage is low and far apart. Later (maybe even heart/terrace) you will see significant damage increases that require you to use more and more spells in the downtime. This is especially true if you have done the new heroics.

    The point we are trying to get across is that spirit is very good. Is it as good as intellect maybe, maybe not depending on where you sit and what you have at your disposal.
    but would i trade a blue with int/spirit for an epic with only int, hell no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavalynn View Post
    snip snip
    ok, just 2healed will with another shaman. Set a top 100 parse (wasn't really trying tho) and finished the fight with full mana. 5k spirit buffed.

    Honestly it wasn't even a challenge. HW + riptide + HST was 90% of what I cast during non gas phases. At no point did my mana dip below 200k.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...5&e=7422#Jynus

    I'm unsure of what more you want me to do here with my 5k spirit to prove the point that spirit isn't near as important as playing smart.
    Last edited by Jynus; 2012-11-10 at 09:19 AM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    ok, just 2healed will with another shaman. Set a top 100 parse (wasn't really trying tho) and finished the fight with full mana. 5k spirit buffed.

    Honestly it wasn't even a challenge. HW + riptide + HST was 90% of what I cast during non gas phases. At no point did my mana dip below 200k.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...5&e=7422#Jynus

    I'm unsure of what more you want me to do here with my 5k spirit to prove the point that spirit isn't near as important as playing smart.
    If I had 5k regen on Garalon 25 I would die and get kicked out of my raid. >.> You got no time to regen mana, nonstop HR/Chain Heal spamming blowing away all your cooldowns. I love it!

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 11:57 AM ----------

    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    The point we are trying to get across is that spirit is very good. Is it as good as intellect maybe, maybe not depending on where you sit and what you have at your disposal.
    but would i trade a blue with int/spirit for an epic with only int, hell no.
    You will prob in some future time hun. Spirit is very good, but with upgrades in where you'll gain like 150-200 spirit from stats alone, you can add a stat+spirit gem so you basically won't loose spirit but will gain some extra stat with it such as Intellect. For example the MSV belt, gives a spirit socket, might aswell add some extra stats to op your Intellect/mastery/crit/haste, whatever you need more. I already feel that Spirit is much for me, and I'm sitting at 14k combat regen raid buffed. There are a lot of phases I can just spam lb inbetween. So for me I already am working to get stat+spirit gems at this point.
    Last edited by Cathina; 2012-11-10 at 11:00 AM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathina View Post
    If I had 5k regen on Garalon 25 I would die and get kicked out of my raid. >.> You got no time to regen mana, nonstop HR/Chain Heal spamming blowing away all your cooldowns. I love it!
    In previous replies I was told that 25man doesn't count for low spirit because I can use GCD's to slack while other healers can pick it up, even though I was healing non stop in most every attempt. Thats why I should use 2heal 10man as somewhat 'proof' that low spirit can work as there is no slack time. But if you had 5k regen on Algalon during 25man, when it was _4 healed_, you would prob die too because it's non stop HR/CH spam too right? I mean, no way your mana should last when you're having to dump it trying to keep up with elgalon damage with only 4 healers. (I loved it too, most fun i've had healing.)

    #4
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ration_Shaman/

    So if Garalon 25man is the next challenge that low spirit can't work on, I'll be sure to set a world parse on him too and anxiously await what the next excuse is as to why low spirit can't work.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    In previous replies I was told that 25man doesn't count for low spirit because I can use GCD's to slack while other healers can pick it up, even though I was healing non stop in most every attempt. Thats why I should use 2heal 10man as somewhat 'proof' that low spirit can work as there is no slack time. But if you had 5k regen on Algalon during 25man, when it was _4 healed_, you would prob die too because it's non stop HR/CH spam too right? I mean, no way your mana should last when you're having to dump it trying to keep up with elgalon damage with only 4 healers. (I loved it too, most fun i've had healing.)

    #4
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...ration_Shaman/

    So if Garalon 25man is the next challenge that low spirit can't work on, I'll be sure to set a world parse on him too and anxiously await what the next excuse is as to why low spirit can't work.
    Fair enough, I wish you good luck on Garalon. Nice rank on World of Logs, I lack the spellpower and gear to perform that hightly and our Disc Priest is way too op with his Divine Aegis.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Cathina View Post
    Fair enough, I wish you good luck on Garalon. Nice rank on World of Logs, I lack the spellpower and gear to perform that hightly and our Disc Priest is way too op with his Divine Aegis.
    It wasn't by choice. When you have a 21 man raid and a tight dps timer, you gotta do unorthodox things to make it work, lol. thx for the good luck wish. and it's not all about spellpower and gear. I'm prob lowest gear level in our raid as I'm not a raider, I'm casual so am last in priority on loot. (used to be a raider, only playing now for fun) But about knowing the fight and knowing what things you need to do to make everything work. Knowing when to blast our a HR and chain spam, when to go 1 step further and pop CD's, and when to take a breather and just spam low cost spells to regen mana. Which is kinda my whole point at stopping at 5k spirit. People are taking a ton more spirit than they need and use it to heal improperly. When they could instead stack throughput, use smarter spell selection and timing, and do better hps for less mana useage.

    Maybe things will change in HM content, I'll see then and readjust as needed. But it's a valid point I feel i'm trying to make. A persons stats is a FAR secondary thing than how your spells are being used.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Jynus View Post
    It wasn't by choice. When you have a 21 man raid and a tight dps timer, you gotta do unorthodox things to make it work, lol. thx for the good luck wish. and it's not all about spellpower and gear. I'm prob lowest gear level in our raid as I'm not a raider, I'm casual so am last in priority on loot. (used to be a raider, only playing now for fun) But about knowing the fight and knowing what things you need to do to make everything work. Knowing when to blast our a HR and chain spam, when to go 1 step further and pop CD's, and when to take a breather and just spam low cost spells to regen mana. Which is kinda my whole point at stopping at 5k spirit. People are taking a ton more spirit than they need and use it to heal improperly. When they could instead stack throughput, use smarter spell selection and timing, and do better hps for less mana useage.

    Maybe things will change in HM content, I'll see then and readjust as needed. But it's a valid point I feel i'm trying to make. A persons stats is a FAR secondary thing than how your spells are being used.
    Uhu, I switch between aoe and single target heals all the time. But I fairly think it's all about your healers setup, our guild is going with a lot of absorbs, Divine Aegis being top hps and two HPaladin's shields, and two Druid's hot make it fairly difficult to heal effectively, so that's where my cooldowns come in all the time. I am always at 100% active time and in top three of hps, fairly behind monk/disc priest but like said I am easily 10 ilvl behind on everyone, but i am already doing good and I'm proud of my healing, I keep people up, I do my job when assigned and I use my cooldowns perfectly as heard from various guildies (still trial) so rankings doesn't say anything.

    If your healing setup uses less absorb, I think healing effectively for you makes it easier to top hps, no? Or am I mistaken?

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