Brewmaster Duel-Wielding

[The Madgod]

So it really boils down to preference?

mhm.

So does the 40% from a 2H only effect attack speed and NOT Energy regen even though it shows as flat Haste on your character sheet? I was under the impression with Haste being such a good stat for Brews that an extra 40% would make a 2H the clear and only choice...

it does not. I'm not sure why blizzard shows it like that but it is not 40% haste... just attack speed.

[Kisho]

This is completely incorrect. There is one attack result roll. Hit, miss, crit, dodge, parry, and glancing blow are all one random roll.

Would you be able to provide proof of that? I must admit I'm going entirely by memory so I fully accept if I'm wrong, would just be nice to update my internal records, so to speak.

[Deleted]

Everything being equal, DW is slightly ahead of 2h. This is true for both WW and BM.

[Dreyo]

Would you be able to provide proof of that? I must admit I'm going entirely by memory so I fully accept if I'm wrong, would just be nice to update my internal records, so to speak.

It goes back years, to the 102.4% block chance discussion, crit-capping, etc. I can't cite a direct, authoritative source because like nearly all theorycrafting it's all been determined by people in the community. Go ask a tank forum, and they'll give you the same answer.

[SurrealNight]

Would you be able to provide proof of that? I must admit I'm going entirely by memory so I fully accept if I'm wrong, would just be nice to update my internal records, so to speak.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table

http://www.wowpedia.org/Attack_table

Google is hard =P

[The Madgod]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table

Google is hard =P

use wowpedia! It's more up to date.

[Deleted]

I may have found the answer to the "Jab Glyph Problem", correct me if i am mistaken again...

Brewing: Elusive Brew generates Stacks of Elusive Brew based on the attack speed of the autohits, slow hits = more stacks per crit, fast hits = less stacks per hit. It seems to change whether i have haste buffs or not in dungeons, makign me gettign 2 stacks whiel unbuffed in sw, or only 1 stack in a dungeon.

still i find it strange that it changed from 3 stacks in the beginning to 1 now, as i still get the impression that i generate less stacks than before. but if my "solution" is correct, could anyone share the attackspeed needed for the different amount of stacks? that would be cool :>

greetings

[Shanseala]

This is a highly misleading statement. Yes, DW will get more crits than 2h, but not because there are more hits. More hits don't get you more crits, more swings do. Increasing your hit chance does not increase your crit chance.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 09:31 AM ----------



This is completely incorrect. There is one attack result roll. Hit, miss, crit, dodge, parry, and glancing blow are all one random roll.

You have slightly contradicted yourself in these statements. Technically, if you have very high amounts of crit, but low hit, the one roll attack table would cause you to have some wasted crit chance because the miss chance would eat into that, and hit rating would raise that chance. Hypothetically.

[klaxce]

You have slightly contradicted yourself in these statements. Technically, if you have very high amounts of crit, but low hit, the one roll attack table would cause you to have some wasted crit chance because the miss chance would eat into that, and hit rating would raise that chance. Hypothetically.

Yes, because a few classes (maybe just Rogues?) were beginning to run into the crit-ceiling. Any crit beyond a given amount of hit is wasted because every attack you make is either a crit or a miss. So by increasing the amount of hit they had, they increased the number of crits they could make as long as their crit continued to be at or above the threshold.

[Photek]

I may have found the answer to the "Jab Glyph Problem", correct me if i am mistaken again...

Brewing: Elusive Brew generates Stacks of Elusive Brew based on the attack speed of the autohits, slow hits = more stacks per crit, fast hits = less stacks per hit. It seems to change whether i have haste buffs or not in dungeons, makign me gettign 2 stacks whiel unbuffed in sw, or only 1 stack in a dungeon.

still i find it strange that it changed from 3 stacks in the beginning to 1 now, as i still get the impression that i generate less stacks than before. but if my "solution" is correct, could anyone share the attackspeed needed for the different amount of stacks? that would be cool :>

greetings

Are you taking into account that you probably upgraded from a 3.6 speed 2-handed weapon to the 3.2 speed heroic dungeon staves?

[Deleted]

I have a question about 2H vs DW when it comes to what enchant one should be using. "The Madgod", your guide tells me i should be using Dancing Steel. Does this apply to both weapons if DW?

If so, how does the proccing work when using 2H vs DW? Does Dancing Steel have an internal CD affecting the "other" Dancing Steel enchant? Is it better to get another enchant to avoid that?

Also, Dancing Steel costs a fortune now. What enchant/enchants should we use if the budget wont allow Dancing Steel?

[Magpai]

It does however affect your chance to hit, which means more opportunities to crit. We use a two roll system: first checks if you hit, the second checks if you crit. So if you fail that first roll, you're missing opportunities to even check if you've critted or not.

It's what happened last I heard, at any rate. So indirectly, yes, it does affect your chance to crit.

Auto attacks are only 1 roll, unless they changed it for Mists.

[Tradu]

Yes, because a few classes (maybe just Rogues?) were beginning to run into the crit-ceiling. Any crit beyond a given amount of hit is wasted because every attack you make is either a crit or a miss. So by increasing the amount of hit they had, they increased the number of crits they could make as long as their crit continued to be at or above the threshold.

All agility classes ran into crit-cap issues in ICC. Don't think that has actually happened since(outside of very specific abilities)

[SurrealNight]

Also, Dancing Steel costs a fortune now. What enchant/enchants should we use if the budget wont allow Dancing Steel?

I'm using Windsong, my 463 staff isn't worth a 15k enchant =P No one in guild even has the pattern yet.

[huth]

This is a highly misleading statement. Yes, DW will get more crits than 2h, but not because there are more hits. More hits don't get you more crits, more swings do. Increasing your hit chance does not increase your crit chance.

A crit is always also a hit. Also, i never claimed that you get more crits because you hit more often. I said that you get more hits and more crits for the same reason.

Besides, you apparently don't understand how the melee hit table works. If you have more crit% than you have non-glancing hits(that is, swings that actually hit the target), everything above those hits is wasted. Getting more hit in this case will in fact increase the number of crits per time.

[casually]

im kinda puzzled by this myself. looking at some of the fist weps id say one of the best to dw would be http://www.wowhead.com/item=81286 boasting hit/expertise.. or http://www.wowhead.com/item=81245 if you prefer crit/haste vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=81247 .. the 2her equivalent of choice

i noticed the 2her has 900 agi and 1350 stam.. vs 2 of the fist wep would be 770 agi and 1156 stam
this is a difference of 130 agi and almost 200 stamina if you choose to dw.. possibly balanced by the fact that you can enchant 2 weps when dwing.


all in all i jus assumed BrM was spose to 2h.. while dw would be left for windwalkers.. who knows maybe its viable to dw as a tank after all

[SurrealNight]

im kinda puzzled by this myself. looking at some of the fist weps id say one of the best to dw would be http://www.wowhead.com/item=81286 boasting hit/expertise.. or http://www.wowhead.com/item=81245 if you prefer crit/haste vs http://www.wowhead.com/item=81247 .. the 2her equivalent of choice

Think you answered your own question with the fact that both DW weapons get a separate enchant. In regards to Hit/Expertise vs Crit/Haste we need them both so that doesn't really matter, especially at 463. What you'd want to avoid are items with Mastery on them unless you have so much Hit/Expertise that you can't reforge down to the caps.

[kynthrus]

Bring back DW frost tanking!

[Deleted]

Are you taking into account that you probably upgraded from a 3.6 speed 2-handed weapon to the 3.2 speed heroic dungeon staves?

i am not, for i am lvl 60 and using the heirloom agi staff does not chaneg the fact that i am reading deep into the mechanics and i foudn this interesting....problem.