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  1. #1

    Arms. Heroic Strike or Slam

    I don't understand the need for 2 rage dump attacks. No other class has 2 resource dump attacks, yet it seems both HS and Slam have individual uses and don't replace eachother nor can one be ignored in favor of the other.

    So let's review. For a basic dps rotation: overpower, mortal strike, colossus smash, heroic strike, slam, execute. If aoe involved, add whirlwind and cleave. And all limited only by gcd or short duration cooldowns.

    And people say paladins are faceroll. Wow!

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    Last edited by Lord Gaga; 2012-10-11 at 07:08 AM.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Actually, you have 1 rage dump attack (Slam) and 1 attack you use with procs (Heroic Strike).

    Taste for Blood- increases damage of Heroic Strike by 100%, stacking up to 5. You slam when you have 0 or 1 stacks of this. You Heroic Strike when you have 2+. If you ever Heroic Strike with 1 or less stacks when you could have slammed, you just lost some potential dps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  3. #3
    slam is clearly better than heroic strike you only use heroic strike when you have 2or more stacks of taste for blood as the poster above me said

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Fury has it a bit different- Heroic Strike is the rage dump, and Wild Strikes is used with procs- Wild Strikes gets a proc that reduces the rage cost to 10 per and reduces the incurred GCD to like .1 seconds or something, and is a dps loss to Wild Strike when you dont have that proc. Heroic Strike is used whenever you are close to capping and need to burn rage. Does Enraging Blow cost rage still?

    Anyway, for Arms, you save 30 rage for Heroic Strike when you get high stacks- You use Slam whenever you get over 60 rage as a rage dump.

    AoE is also interesting, depending on the amount of targets- 3 or 4+ targets, you replace Slam with Whirlwind as the rage dump. You spend 30 rage on Sweeping Strikes, keeping that on CD whenever you have 2+ targets. For 3+ targets, you use Thunderclap every 15 seconds to keep up Deep Wounds (with 2 targets, you MS each one to spread Deep Wounds on both targets, shouldn't Thunderclap). For 3+ targets, you use Cleave instead of Heroic Strike, and do it with same amount of stacks (Although, with higher number of targets, you have to have higher number of stacks in order for cleave to be above WW- 10 targets, I think that you need 4 stacks for cleave to hit harder)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  5. #5
    HS is off GCD, Slam is on GCD.
    Slam hits twice as hard as Heroic Strike. Heroic Strike can be buffed to do 500% more damage.

    They are not entirely the same "rage dumps" as you claim. Never compare Heroic Strike to Slam or Wild Strike. (Can't hide that I sense a troll but can't be sure aswell.)

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Also, Execute replaces Slam entirely once you hit execute range, AND you have to have, I think 4+ stacks of Taste for Blood for heroic strike to beat Execute.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 07:07 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Angy View Post
    HS is off GCD, Slam is on GCD.
    Slam hits twice as hard as Heroic Strike. Heroic Strike can be buffed to do 500% more damage.

    They are not entirely the same "rage dumps" as you claim. Never compare Heroic Strike to Slam or Wild Strike. (Can't hide that I sense a troll but can't be sure aswell.)
    While you may be refering to the OP, I am not comparing Heroic Strike, Slam, OR Wild Strike- I am saying that for fury/arms, the usage of Heroic Strike and Slam/Wild Strike changes (Slam is rage dump for arms, heroic strike is rage dump for fury, wild strike is proc for fury, heroic strike is proc for arms)

    I could be wrong about Fury though. I dont play Fury at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Also, Execute replaces Slam entirely once you hit execute range, AND you have to have, I think 4+ stacks of Taste for Blood for heroic strike to beat Execute.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 07:07 AM ----------



    While you may be refering to the OP, I am not comparing Heroic Strike, Slam, OR Wild Strike- I am saying that for fury/arms, the usage of Heroic Strike and Slam/Wild Strike changes (Slam is rage dump for arms, heroic strike is rage dump for fury, wild strike is proc for fury, heroic strike is proc for arms)

    I could be wrong about Fury though. I dont play Fury at all.
    Yes, I was referring to the OP.

    Slam is the rage dump for arms at situations where Mortal Strike and Overpower are on cooldown. If MS or OP isn't on cooldown and you still have close-to-cap rage, Heroic Strike is the rage dump. (Delaying heroic strike only because it does not have 5 stacks yet with 100% rage is a loss.)

    Wild Strike is the rage dump for fury at situations where Bloodthirst and Raging Blow are on cooldown or not even available to be used. If you have BT and/or RB available and still close-to-cap rage, Heroic Strike is the rage dump.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    - Also, when Enrage and CS are up you want to fit in as many damaging attacks as possible. If rage allows, why not fitting some Off-CD heroic strikes in?

    - Slam is something you use in "starved" situations. Nothing proccs, nothing's up and apart from some shouts there's no other button to hit. In other words, ou got spare GCDs.

    - Heroic strike is something you need to watch closely and either spend it on time constrained situation with too much rage or you build it up and when the time is right (enrage, colossus smash,2+ stacks) unleash some nasty damage.

  9. #9
    Warchief Kezotar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiercon View Post
    - Also, when Enrage and CS are up you want to fit in as many damaging attacks as possible. If rage allows, why not fitting some Off-CD heroic strikes in?

    - Slam is something you use in "starved" situations. Nothing proccs, nothing's up and apart from some shouts there's no other button to hit. In other words, ou got spare GCDs.

    - Heroic strike is something you need to watch closely and either spend it on time constrained situation with too much rage or you build it up and when the time is right (enrage, colossus smash,2+ stacks) unleash some nasty damage.
    Hooray! This guy totally got it! HE FUCKING GOT IT! Finally, was just about to write something similiar and saw this guys post. Finally, there's more than only me that got the rythm. I feel people are comparing slam with hs too much. like in situations of damage. But remember that HS is off the GCD. Meaning that the massive output in damage with 2+ Heroic strike with a slam can be sick and dangerous. It's not a choice either hs or slam lol silly. Heroic strike can be thrown in whenever you want, slam can't.


    To answer OP silly question why we got two off cds ability. Heroic strike 1-5 stacks + Execute. Enjoy the dmg. Slam as dump when you got no ability off cd and no stacks.
    Last edited by Kezotar; 2012-10-11 at 04:22 PM.
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  10. #10
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Actually, you have 1 rage dump attack (Slam) and 1 attack you use with procs (Heroic Strike).
    Well stated.

  11. #11
    If I'm not mistaken, HS being off the gcd is so that if you're about to cap rage and don't have an open gcd, then throw in a HS to make sure you don't cap, regardless of stacks.

  12. #12
    TFB is a free RNG buff. All you need to do is worry about your Rage.

    If you're going to cap, and you have no GCDs, use Heroic Strike, regardless of how many stacks of TFB you have.
    If you're going to cap, and you have spare GCDs, use Slam.
    If your TFB buff is going to run out, use Heroic Strike.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    If you're going to cap, and you have no GCDs, use Heroic Strike, regardless of how many stacks of TFB you have.
    If you're going to cap, and you have spare GCDs, use Slam.
    Dafuq ?! Aren't you supposed to be some kind of machine to make decisions and apply them as well within 1.5 seconds ?!

    I think I'm gonna go the human player way and only use HS when I have at least 2 stacks of TFB.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Slam ALWAYS over HS except when the following are true:

    1.) You'd overcap on rage before you can next slam (So either before your next MS or melee swing) to avoid losing rage.

    2.) When you have at least 2 TFB stacks AND CS is applied.

    3.) To prevent losing 2+ TFB stacks before a CS can be applied.

    Basically, slam is your rage dump, but HS is the "overflow" button or proc button.

    You get a feel for it, TBH.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    No, rotation (more of a priority list)is: CS > Mortal Strike> Over power > Slam > HS (if above 60 rage and or you have 2 stacks or more of TFB) but like others say, it's more about the rage.
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-10-12 at 09:20 AM.
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  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    No, rotation (more of a priority list)is: CS > Mortal Strike> Over power > Slam > HS (if above 60 rage and or you have 2 stacks or more of TFB)
    The thing to remember is that you don't have to cast OP before you use another GCD. DR if its up or slam to prevent capping are viable. The only downside is if you get 3x TFB procs in a row- but really the chance of that happening are what, 3%?

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    The thing to remember is that you don't have to cast OP before you use another GCD. DR if its up or slam to prevent capping are viable. The only downside is if you get 3x TFB procs in a row- but really the chance of that happening are what, 3%?
    Do you mean to say about when you get too many OP procs? I used to worry about that and say 'but there's too many spells you need to hit when op procs too much.' I just ignore them now and don't delay the priority list for OP any more. So basically, if OP is up, I still MS.
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  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    Do you mean to say about when you get too many OP procs? I used to worry about that and say 'but there's too many spells you need to hit when op procs too much.' I just ignore them now and don't delay the priority list for OP any more. So basically, if OP is up, I still MS.
    Most of the time I'll give it "one more try". If not rage-capped, I hit OP once (with MS beeing ready) if it proccs, nice, I'll hit MS afterwards nonetheless.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    Dafuq ?! Aren't you supposed to be some kind of machine to make decisions and apply them as well within 1.5 seconds ?!

    I think I'm gonna go the human player way and only use HS when I have at least 2 stacks of TFB.
    Well sure, do that, and eventually there will come a time when you should have used HS but you rage capped instead and after reaching rage cap you pressed Mortal Strike before you dumped that Rage on a Heroic Strike/Slam.

    And you only need 1 stack of TFB for HS to become better than Slam. I don't get why people keep saying that its 2 stacks for HS to become better.

    HS - 110% WD - 1 stack - 220% WD
    Slam - 190% WD

    At 1 stack, HS is already better.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    Well sure, do that, and eventually there will come a time when you should have used HS but you rage capped instead and after reaching rage cap you pressed Mortal Strike before you dumped that Rage on a Heroic Strike/Slam.

    And you only need 1 stack of TFB for HS to become better than Slam. I don't get why people keep saying that its 2 stacks for HS to become better.

    HS - 110% WD - 1 stack - 220% WD
    Slam - 190% WD

    At 1 stack, HS is already better.
    You forgot the added basedamage on Slam. That's why

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