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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    I love Leona and I'm just sitting here going "Why would you do that ever!?!?" Never ever by boots of swiftness (which I assume you meant by speed) on any champ. They are useless. Leona needs Merc treads because she will be right in the fight trying to eat some damage and soak up CC.

    Now if your looking for an ADC, Graves and Ezreal are fantastic. If you want melee your kinda out of luck because they are all countered hardcore by CC, so the next best thing would be Darius, Riven, Pantheon, or Renekton.
    The reason I was doing this, is due to the fact that she has a marvelous gank. I occasionally like to try alternative things and movement speed is crucial with ganks. The first thing one of my friends said is; She's not supposed to do that! Regardless, she is one of the best gankers(as in, 1 immob, 2 stuns), as long as you are sure that you get a carry to back it up.

    That said, I'm not seriously planning to play her like that, always, it's just a cool thing to try.

    I'll try Graves and Ezreal when they pop up in the free queue, thanks.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2012-10-11 at 05:52 PM.

  2. #22
    I know you want to learn other champs, but if you master support Leona (bot lane with an ADC) - you can easily carry yourself to 1200+ ELO since no one wants support and the majority of people are awful at it. If you get your ADC fed early, its also GG- no one can carry harder then a fed ADC (I guess you can make an argument for fed mid, but even then they blow CDS and are useless for 6 seconds).

    It sounds like you don't want to learn a top or mid (you are right, they are instalocked 99% of the time and 90% of those instalocks are trash) so I would suggest a jungler. Start when you get some runes, but my suggestions are:

    Shyvanna
    Skarner
    Olaf
    Xin Zhao
    Pantheon (my bro- if you wanna play him PM me I have over 200 games played)

    Bruiser, tanky, AD-ish guys that excel at jungling and can carry you into late game if fed.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomcats View Post
    I know you want to learn other champs, but if you master support Leona (bot lane with an ADC) - you can easily carry yourself to 1200+ ELO since no one wants support and the majority of people are awful at it. If you get your ADC fed early, its also GG- no one can carry harder then a fed ADC (I guess you can make an argument for fed mid, but even then they blow CDS and are useless for 6 seconds).

    It sounds like you don't want to learn a top or mid (you are right, they are instalocked 99% of the time and 90% of those instalocks are trash) so I would suggest a jungler. Start when you get some runes, but my suggestions are:

    Shyvanna
    Skarner
    Olaf
    Xin Zhao
    Pantheon (my bro- if you wanna play him PM me I have over 200 games played)

    Bruiser, tanky, AD-ish guys that excel at jungling and can carry you into late game if fed.
    Yeah, Panth seems to work a great deal better. Right now, I'm having the worst possible game ever on Leona. Top and mid are giving their lanes away on a plate, feeding with 7 deaths in 20 mins and my Yi at bot doesn't feel me. I take the punches and THEN he jumps in. 2/5/1 ..woop ..worst score evar.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Yeah, Panth seems to work a great deal better. Right now, I'm having the worst possible game ever on Leona. Top and mid are giving their lanes away on a plate, feeding with 7 deaths in 20 mins and my Yi at bot doesn't feel me. I take the punches and THEN he jumps in. 2/5/1 ..woop ..worst score evar.
    Be prepared to suffer scores WAY worse, especially when playing with a melee ADC. Because they are much more difficult to position and execute, they'll die a shitload.

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Farolok View Post
    Be prepared to suffer scores WAY worse, especially when playing with a melee ADC. Because they are much more difficult to position and execute, they'll die a shitload.
    Why would I? My own lane was doable, it's pretty much always the other lanes that destroy us. Many melee carries can jump in and execute what I started, Yi, just didn't.

    Night of the bad matches. Top lane feeding Jayce, Jayce said gameover.

  6. #26
    That's what I mean, more often than not you'll find people playing melee ADC CAN'T play melee ADC. With melee ADC they are generally superb when they manage to get a good farm in, and tend to snowball late game (such as Yi), but they require a really high skill level which most either can't do, or can't be annoyed to do.

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Farolok View Post
    That's what I mean, more often than not you'll find people playing melee ADC CAN'T play melee ADC. With melee ADC they are generally superb when they manage to get a good farm in, and tend to snowball late game (such as Yi), but they require a really high skill level which most either can't do, or can't be annoyed to do.
    I thought ranked was the pro league?

    Either way, another bad match. This time it might be a real counter bottom lane. Lux + amumu versus me and an Ashe. We didnt get raped, but we didn't do the normal rapage and at some point we got waltzed over and I guess that was the end of it.

    I've actually had many great ADC's. Maybe it was just luck, but most manage to keep up just fine. It's just tonight, since weeks that I've actually lost a game with this kind of difference and there's three of them! matches..that is. I begged for a proper match, but it seems it won't be tonight :P Maybe it's karma..

    Ah well, I'll get lvl 15 some other night.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2012-10-11 at 08:17 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    I thought ranked was the pro league?

    Either way, another bad match. This time it might be a real counter bottom lane. Lux + amumu versus me and an Ashe. We didnt get raped, but we didn't do the normal rapage and at some point we got waltzed over and I guess that was the end of it.

    I've actually had many great ADC's. Maybe it was just luck, but most manage to keep up just fine. It's just tonight, since weeks that I've actually lost a game with this kind of difference and there's three of them! matches..that is. I begged for a proper match, but it seems it won't be tonight :P Maybe it's karma..

    Ah well, I'll get lvl 15 some other night.
    It's not really the pro league, it's just a much higher skill level than normal 5v5 matches and ARAMs. I can't think of any time I've saw a melee ADC at big tournaments in the last 4 months, it's just something that doesn't have a place in the game atm. I have saw melee ADC work though, don't get me wrong, a good few times I've saw Master Yi's absolutely annihilating the entire game because they've been able to back door once team fights start. Laning is quite tricky as melee, but for teamfights they get focused down so easily because of CC.

    However, if you personally want to try someone as melee ADC at low summoner level I'd go with Garen. He really is built more for top lane, but he's naturally very tanky and his Q gives a lovely movement speed burst and silence. His E is decent as a getaway because it renders you immune to movement speed reductions (IIRC) and his ult works similarly to Darius', only it scales with the amount of health the target is missing. (again, IIRC)

    Having said that I have seen a massive increase in Garen bot lanes recently.

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  9. #29
    It's harder to outplay them than to play them. Don't spread BS, they are just supershallow that they can't outplay their counters.
    That's why you see them doing so well in low level play, and be next to non-existing later.

    Biggest difference between idiot Tryndamere and good player for example is just the fact that later won't yell "OMG 1V5 NOOBS!".

  10. #30
    Well, the point about ADC's in bot, is that they should be capable of last hitting and capable of responding to events in a split second. Having one or the other ability that allows them to jump right in is a big bonus. When I W-E-Q-R another ADC at say level 6, they'll have ~25% hp left if they're lucky. I've seen some get away with 1% hp. Especially at lower levels, I can't pursue and E them again, so I need that ADC to simply finish the job.

    There's a big difference between a Yi that I've told to keep his abilities ready for my jump and listens to it and one that says "yes" and still proceeds to empty his CD's. It's that kind of difference I'm talking about. Even at level 3, I often manage to bring targets down to 50% and even if we don't put the target down, it means they'll be pushed back, which gives my ADC more time to farm.

    At low level I'm basically a one-trick pony when I'm on the offense, beyond the initial burst, I'm not that scary once it's gone. It's just that the burst is enough of a mental picture to make them cautious. If my ADC fails to end what I started multiple times, they'll start pressing my ADC instead and that forces me to use my CD's defensively, turning the whole game around.

    I've had a few Jaxes, yesterdays Nidalee, that manage to land when required. Same for some Sions, Panths and Yi's. I don't desperately have to have a melee ADC bottom lane, but my experience is worse with ranged ones. Yesterdays matches were a disaster, especially the one with Ashe on my bottom lane.

    And a Jayce (top) with 14 kills by the 10 minute marker makes you lose. It was a good player, that I'll admit Maybe we never had a chance to begin with.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2012-10-12 at 06:51 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    Well, the point about ADC's in bot, is that they should be capable of last hitting and capable of responding to events in a split second. Having one or the other ability that allows them to jump right in is a big bonus. When I W-E-Q-R another ADC at say level 6, they'll have ~25% hp left if they're lucky. I've seen some get away with 1% hp. Especially at lower levels, I can't pursue and E them again, so I need that ADC to simply finish the job.
    Try actually trying to farm as melee ADC if you aren't somewhat tanky early game, if the enemy team has a ranged ADC carry you'll just get poked back from minions constantly and end up losing out on a shitload of farm. As ranged you are able to stand behind your own creeps and farm only last hits, as melee you need to be in amongst them in order to get last hits which more often than not involves coming around the river side of them, opening you up for jungler ganks and CC from support. Whilst I appreciate that it may very well be working just now, melee in the bottom lane just gets more and more difficult as you get to higher levels because people learn to position themselves correctly and farm properly as ranged.

    Best example I can give is this: I had a game last night as Kog'maw ADC (a role I very, very rarely play) against a Tryndamere ADC. As soon as Tryndamere came close to minions pre level 6 I would roll out my E, pop W and begin to unload on him, pushing him back from creeps allowing myself time to farm for as long as possible before he became unkillable. By 15 minutes into the game I had at least 3x his CS. Because ADC is a role I don't really play, my positioning wasn't great and I was opened up for ganks. It is possible to be melee down in the Gaza strip, but for me one of the main advantages is being able to stay as far away from river/tri-brush and the enemy as much as possible to get farm in. Once I have sufficient farm it becomes a much clearer advantage, as I will already have progressed much further into my build and be able to punish the enemy lane for early game losses.

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  12. #32
    I think interesting way to play those would be abusing their retarded amount of damage. Too bad you got Corki and Ezreal there, but those can be somewhat banned down.
    Imagine Yi or Tryndamere getting Black Shield and bubble from Kayle - basically being completely untouchable. With their retarded damage they can wreck targets before this runs out, and then soul shackles can kick in for cleanup. Bad thing is that if you try this vs anyone with some better mobility, you will still not catch up. And yeah it some amount of coordination.

    But still this in my opinion is question of overpowered corki/ezreal and not those melees being completely bad. I think despite them not appearing very much (if at all), that trade off between their vulnerabilities and advantages is still very fair.

  13. #33
    @Farolok, what if I position myself between a melee ADC and the opponents ranged fire?

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk Klutzington's Avatar
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    How to play Tryndamere? Right click a lot, as if you are playing Diablo (if you set the main action to right click, not left click).

  15. #35
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    @Vespian, The idea to playing an ad carry it to always be position with a meat shield in front of you. Always make sure that to be hit by the enemy ranged they have to walk through your tank line, which will tear them apart. The most important thing late game as an ad carry is been safe as you can really destroy any target. Now you will see alot of "focus X" , generally do not listen to them as that will get you killed. Only hit safe targets, you will get flamed with remarks such as "idiot ad attacks tank GG", but really your job is to stay alive, you can't do damage when your dead and an ad carry with a LW,IE and what ever other item, does alot of damage.

    That been said, earlier on in the game your not really as important over all, so go for more high priority targets such as the AP, but still stay relatively safe. Just remember, late game you are the most important person, the team should defend you and let you hit the safe target, there no point diving past there tanks to hit they Ad or AP you will be eaten alive.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by fiif View Post
    @Vespian, The idea to playing an ad carry it to always be position with a meat shield in front of you. Always make sure that to be hit by the enemy ranged they have to walk through your tank line, which will tear them apart. The most important thing late game as an ad carry is been safe as you can really destroy any target. Now you will see alot of "focus X" , generally do not listen to them as that will get you killed. Only hit safe targets, you will get flamed with remarks such as "idiot ad attacks tank GG", but really your job is to stay alive, you can't do damage when your dead and an ad carry with a LW,IE and what ever other item, does alot of damage.

    That been said, earlier on in the game your not really as important over all, so go for more high priority targets such as the AP, but still stay relatively safe. Just remember, late game you are the most important person, the team should defend you and let you hit the safe target, there no point diving past there tanks to hit they Ad or AP you will be eaten alive.
    Thanks, I'll take it all in consideration

    Edit: My last 5 matches as Leona went back to normal again. Normal being controlling the lane, some ganks, some missed skillshots (I hate it when I run in and people don't move ;() I'm trying to buy more wards and run around placing them, but that's work in progress. I just need to get used to that. Oh yeah, I also bought her Defender skin. I love the solid look on it. Iron Solari is a bit too flashy/showy.

    Other than that, a much better way to end the day, than yesterdays matches.
    Last edited by Vespian; 2012-10-12 at 11:28 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Vespian View Post
    @Farolok, what if I position myself between a melee ADC and the opponents ranged fire?
    It generally won't happen very often, as ranged ADC are much more suited to control how far the lane is pushed as they can just sit back, but it does certainly help. But again, if you are to step in between your melee ADC and the enemy laners it is the right idea, it's just harder as you have less space and it becomes a little easier for them to poke at you.

    I hope you don't take what I've been saying as me telling you "no, you can't do that and if you do it's bad", because I'm certainly no expert. It's just in my experience ranged ADC works a LOT better than melee, unless the melee gets an early feed. That shit gets sort of unstoppable.

    I know a LOT of people will shoot me down for this, but I have seen AP Master Yi being played as our AD carry (makes no sense, I know), and it has worked very well sometimes. Purely because with AP you don't need to be in amongst the minions so much and are able to simply Q to take quite a lot out in a short space of time, and just picking off the others with melee attacks.

    In teamfights he hurts like an absolute bitch as AP and his heal is just like "lol imma tank yo' shit"

    ne porvivajo nur mortigi tempo

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Farolok View Post
    It generally won't happen very often, as ranged ADC are much more suited to control how far the lane is pushed as they can just sit back, but it does certainly help. But again, if you are to step in between your melee ADC and the enemy laners it is the right idea, it's just harder as you have less space and it becomes a little easier for them to poke at you.

    I hope you don't take what I've been saying as me telling you "no, you can't do that and if you do it's bad", because I'm certainly no expert. It's just in my experience ranged ADC works a LOT better than melee, unless the melee gets an early feed. That shit gets sort of unstoppable.

    I know a LOT of people will shoot me down for this, but I have seen AP Master Yi being played as our AD carry (makes no sense, I know), and it has worked very well sometimes. Purely because with AP you don't need to be in amongst the minions so much and are able to simply Q to take quite a lot out in a short space of time, and just picking off the others with melee attacks.

    In teamfights he hurts like an absolute bitch as AP and his heal is just like "lol imma tank yo' shit"
    No, I'm not reading what you're saying like that. You're giving me more info on the psychological aspect, basically "why am I/are people making that choice", which I appreciate boatloads. It's basically like with skillshots, I've gotten really good at them, but occasionally I miss, because someone takes an entirely different path than I expected. It's usually those players that are either incredibly good, or incredibly bad and I always try to analyze what they thought when they decided to move that way. (And then there's the people that don't respond to my approach and suddenly realize they get jumped, but that also often makes me miss my E) So answering any "Why" question is something I completely appreciate. It's the "suggestions" without motivation I have a problem with

  19. #39
    I actually play him a bit in the jungle, I feel since he's not in lane early game it actually makes up for his questionable early game. His ganks aren't bad but you have to know how to gank with him because the way it works is a lot different. At level 6 he can pretty much tower dive if done correctly with his ultimate (if even needed). If you can get 2 kills early game I find that he becomes trivial onwards. Haven't played him top in ranked partly because I know I'm not good enough at top with him... Same thing with Jax, I can jungle well with him but I can top to save my life with him.

    When you get higher up in levels, get your runes and if you ever get 2600 RP, use it on the rune page bundle... It's so worth it.
    The Runaway. I love my new nickname. Is there a picture of me? Does it look good?

  20. #40
    I usually go full Crit Red Runes, Armour Yellows, Atk Speed Blue and Swiftness Quints. It seems to be that I'm forced out of my lane a bit untill level 3, when I get my 2 other abilities. I then hit Minions for a bit untill I'm around 75% rage and then I can begin harrassing the enemy. People will overextend because they won't think you'll do that much damage. When you start eating there health away, they'll start running away, at this point you can chase after with your spin, exhaust and also ghost and use your W. This even works well against tanky champs as they think that they can take the damage from you, nope. Crit crit crit crit. Try it, it's alot of fun. Although if you're against a ranged such as Teemo top, don't expect the same results =)

    Edit: Forgot to mention. I usually buy boots and pots first, then a wriggle as youll probably be overextending for the rage, so the ward will come in handy. A phantom dancer and a IE, and then either go more offensive depending on how well your doing or defensive if your not doing so well.
    Last edited by Davekthxbai; 2012-10-24 at 08:30 PM.

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