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  1. #1

    How much haste for affliction?

    I recently got the haste trinket off Elegon and helm off Will of the Emperor and have a ton of haste. I know the different breakpoints for all three dots but do not know if I should only shoot for Agony/Corruption points or all three. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Pryda/simple

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Haizer's Avatar
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    Try and hit your breakpoints without going too far over mastery, since the more you get of one the other rises by quite a lot in terms of dps. I personally keep them close then hit extra haste when close to a breakpoint.

  3. #3
    At the moment I have 6789 haste rating and 3640 mastery rating. Hitting breakpoints in haste is not an issue. I just wanted to know if some were more important than others and how close I should be keeping both of my ratings together.

  4. #4
    I'd use SimCraft to find out if you should go for all or reforge mastery instead. So it's either 6604 haste -> mastery or 4686 haste -> mastery. I haven't been able to try myself because I've been stacking mastery on my gear and for me it's not worth it to reforge to any of those haste plateaus, especially not if I want to maintain hit cap.

  5. #5
    Keep in mind that Dots by themselves is not where affliction is strong anymore. It's Malefic Grasp + Mastery. I would, personally, run a few simes but I can almost gaurantee that it will end with you reforging your haste into mastery.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire hellhamster's Avatar
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    Haste pleateaus for level 90 if you are interested.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...er=true&gid=12

    Personally I'd go for 11th Corruption tick at 4717 haste, then reforge to full mastery, because it is easily manageable and will also help you with SB:Seed. But like other people said, use simcraft to see what exactly you should reforge to.
    Last edited by hellhamster; 2012-10-11 at 03:24 PM.

  7. #7
    dont even worry about haste. just hit cap, then spec hard into mastery. Also, the days of straight int gems is over. go with the combo gems like int/mastery. Also, for blue slots, go with a straight 320 hit, that way you can keep from reforging your gear into hit. Judging by your gear you can easilly get hit capped doing that. While haste is not important, you still want to try to reforge it away as little as possible. Get rid of the crit instead.

    But again, screw haste, it just doesnt help us like straight mastery. I have about 3% haste but over 60% mastery and im averaging 50-60k and bursting over 75k and im only at ilevel 454.

    Also, get rid of dark bargain, its such bullshit. Sure it could save your ass, but then you have the dot you and your healers have to be aware of anyway. Go with soul link as it buffs your HP when you sac a pet. Then if you sac your VW, you get his last stand ability. Currently im at 457k hp with it and when i use last stand it puts me over 650k hp, coupled with your Dark Regen talent followed by a healthstone, you are talking some serious heals and survivability.

    never ever ever reforge out of mastery.
    Last edited by vaeevictiss; 2012-10-11 at 03:50 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    dont even worry about haste. just hit cap, then spec hard into mastery. Also, the days of straight int gems is over. go with the combo gems like int/mastery. Also, for blue slots, go with a straight 320 hit, that way you can keep from reforging your gear into hit. Judging by your gear you can easilly get hit capped doing that. While haste is not important, you still want to try to reforge it away as little as possible. Get rid of the crit instead.

    But again, screw haste, it just doesnt help us like straight mastery. I have about 3% haste but over 60% mastery and im averaging 50-60k and bursting over 75k and im only at ilevel 454.

    Also, get rid of dark bargain, its such bullshit. Sure it could save your ass, but then you have the dot you and your healers have to be aware of anyway. Go with soul link as it buffs your HP when you sac a pet. Then if you sac your VW, you get his last stand ability. Currently im at 457k hp with it and when i use last stand it puts me over 650k hp, coupled with your Dark Regen talent followed by a healthstone, you are talking some serious heals and survivability.

    never ever ever reforge out of mastery.
    I like how you present hard numbers to support your claims, just makes your arguments SO much valid.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sepharoth View Post
    I like how you present hard numbers to support your claims, just makes your arguments SO much valid.
    well do it however the fuck you want. The math doesn't lie. If you don't believe me you can try figuring it out.

    current stat weights are

    Int = 4.95
    Mastery = 2.71
    Hit = 2.55
    Haste = 2.28
    Crit = 1.97


    which translates to

    160 Intellect gem = 160 x 4.95 = 792 DPS
    80 Intellect/160 Mastery gem = 80 x 4.95 + 160 x 2.71 = 396 + 433.6 = 829.6 DPS
    80 Intellect/160 Haste gem = 80 x 4.95 + 160 x 2.28 = 396 + 364.8 = 760.8 DPS
    80 Intellect/160 Hit gem = 80 x 4.95 + 160 x 2.55 = 396 + 408 = 804 DPS

    i can keep going...


    For demo and destro you can use straight int gems because stat weights are so close, but for aff, not so much.
    Last edited by vaeevictiss; 2012-10-11 at 04:32 PM.

  10. #10
    Blademaster planktin's Avatar
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    With the current state of gear Raw intellect is still our heaviest stat weight for affliction. Should you gem all raw intellect? NO! socket bonuses are strong atm and red gem slots on gear is rare. 10% haste is comfortable for me and this is my target haste plateau before hard reforging mastery. I don't feel hit cap is necessary RIGHT now this is purely preference and affliction has proven to be viable and strong without reforging for hit cap(12-13% hit is adequate for me,when i do reforge to 15%, i have a dps loss) I'm not an extraordinary lock by any means but i'm simcrafted at 75k dps ilvl 474 and perform in that range. Talent points are purely preferential and situation based, there is no de facto talent choice for affliction, aside from Grimoire of Sacrifice.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    well do it however the fuck you want. The math doesn't lie. If you don't believe me you can try figuring it out.

    current stat weights are

    Int = 4.95
    Mastery = 2.71
    Hit = 2.55
    Haste = 2.28
    Crit = 1.97


    which translates to

    160 Intellect gem = 160 x 4.95 = 792 DPS
    80 Intellect/160 Mastery gem = 80 x 4.95 + 160 x 2.71 = 396 + 433.6 = 829.6 DPS
    80 Intellect/160 Haste gem = 80 x 4.95 + 160 x 2.28 = 396 + 364.8 = 760.8 DPS
    80 Intellect/160 Hit gem = 80 x 4.95 + 160 x 2.55 = 396 + 408 = 804 DPS

    i can keep going...


    For demo and destro you can use straight int gems because stat weights are so close, but for aff, not so much.
    And you're using stat weights with t14 HC gear to give advice to gear for pre-raid, low gear levels. Smart aren't you.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by planktin View Post
    With the current state of gear Raw intellect is still our heaviest stat weight for affliction. Should you gem all raw intellect? NO! socket bonuses are strong atm and red gem slots on gear is rare. 10% haste is comfortable for me and this is my target haste plateau before hard reforging mastery. I don't feel hit cap is necessary RIGHT now this is purely preference and affliction has proven to be viable and strong without reforging for hit cap(12-13% hit is adequate for me,when i do reforge to 15%, i have a dps loss) I'm not an extraordinary lock by any means but i'm simcrafted at 75k dps ilvl 474 and perform in that range. Talent points are purely preferential and situation based, there is no de facto talent choice for affliction, aside from Grimoire of Sacrifice.
    i find it odd that your dps went down as you capped your hit. Hit is not an optional or "preference" stat. It is simply required, and one should not even step foot in a raid without being capped.

    With haste weighing less than mastery, there is no need to aim for a certain amount of haste BEFORE you go for mastery. Mastery should be your prime concern. Again, this is only really for affliction. If you look at stat weights for the other two specs you will find they are extremely close. Aff stands out and scales incredibly with gear...so much so i would not be surprised to see a nerf to something later in the expansion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepharoth View Post
    And you're using stat weights with t14 HC gear to give advice to gear for pre-raid, low gear levels. Smart aren't you.
    and?

    it is still based around the fact that you need to be hit capped, and mastery is far more important than haste. You can deny it all you want but with the same gear my dps went up gemming/reforging this way.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    i find it odd that your dps went down as you capped your hit. Hit is not an optional or "preference" stat. It is simply required, and one should not even step foot in a raid without being capped.

    With haste weighing less than mastery, there is no need to aim for a certain amount of haste BEFORE you go for mastery. Mastery should be your prime concern. Again, this is only really for affliction. If you look at stat weights for the other two specs you will find they are extremely close. Aff stands out and scales incredibly with gear...so much so i would not be surprised to see a nerf to something later in the expansion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:46 PM ----------



    and?

    it is still based around the fact that you need to be hit capped, and mastery is far more important than haste. You can deny it all you want but with the same gear my dps went up gemming/reforging this way.
    And the scale factors change as your gear progresses. I removed some mastery from my gear and put haste instead, and guess what, my dps went up as well. So stop spreading lies. Mastery isn't always better than haste, and people need to find that out for their own character.

  14. #14
    then i would suggest people to try it for themselves. When i sim my toon it shows me that haste is heavier than mastery also, yet in a real scenario, doing the same thing, i do more dps with higher mastery.

  15. #15
    Blademaster planktin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    i find it odd that your dps went down as you capped your hit. Hit is not an optional or "preference" stat. It is simply required, and one should not even step foot in a raid without being capped.

    With haste weighing less than mastery, there is no need to aim for a certain amount of haste BEFORE you go for mastery. Mastery should be your prime concern. Again, this is only really for affliction. If you look at stat weights for the other two specs you will find they are extremely close. Aff stands out and scales incredibly with gear...so much so i would not be surprised to see a nerf to something later in the expansion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 12:46 PM ----------



    and?

    it is still based around the fact that you need to be hit capped, and mastery is far more important than haste. You can deny it all you want but with the same gear my dps went up gemming/reforging this way.
    My dps went down because i was sacrificing mastery/haste for hit cap. I agree missing on certain things are critical like the Energy Orbs on elegon, adds that need to be burst, but these adds are level 92 or level 90 and only require 12% hit to never miss. Will missing a DoT cast tank my dps by a few thousand no, a haunt even, no. I'm not a hardcore raider, i'm not even a pseudo raider so until a raid leader or guild demands I'm hitcapped for the current content I'll play with what is performing well. I'm not the top warlock in the world, but I'm usually the top dps in my raid and until empirical data proves that 15% hit is necessary to do consistently max dps(which is does not atm) i'll reforge and gem how I see fit

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by planktin View Post
    My dps went down because i was sacrificing mastery/haste for hit cap. I agree missing on certain things are critical like the Energy Orbs on elegon, adds that need to be burst, but these adds are level 92 or level 90 and only require 12% hit to never miss. Will missing a DoT cast tank my dps by a few thousand no, a haunt even, no. I'm not a hardcore raider, i'm not even a pseudo raider so until a raid leader or guild demands I'm hitcapped for the current content I'll play with what is performing well. I'm not the top warlock in the world, but I'm usually the top dps in my raid and until empirical data proves that 15% hit is necessary to do consistently max dps(which is does not atm) i'll reforge and gem how I see fit
    i dont understand how you think not being hit capped wont hurt dps. If you are at even 14.99% your potential will not be as great as it would be at 15%. You have to realize that the stats are based per cast, not the duration of the encounter. Sure a 1% chance to miss even over a 10m long encounter seems like nothing, but its 1% EACH time you push a button. If that miss happens to be a SB:SW then you just wasted a shard and 3 dots (yes this exact thing happened to me the other day when i was at 14.96% hit because i was seeing how important cap was).

    Missing a few here and there doesnt seem like much, but when you look at what you have to do to compensate for it you will quickly understand.

    So you miss a cast, big deal, you recast. Now you are wasting MG/DS uptime because you missed and had to recast, AND you are wasting mana. When you waste mana, you have to life tap more often, this also takes away from DPS as you are again, wasting time and loosing MG/DS uptime. When you lifetap more, now your healers have to heal you more (unless you have the glyph that just absorbs healing which is probably a very bad thing to use in a raid) and then other people get healed less. You become a burden on the raid group.

    Im sorry, but hit cap is such a huge pet peeve of mine and i never understand why people just dont understand it. All that haste/crit/mastery in the world doesnt mean a damn thing for that spell that didnt land. Just cap the friggin' hit and be done with it. Sure its hard at the moment with gear, but anything above this tier of raiding and you arent hit capped, you shouldnt be in a raid. Gearing up...sure, its understandable.

    Raid members not being hit capped, can easily be the difference between a kill and a wipe on those all too familiar 1% wipes.





    As for the haste/mastery debate. There are two main thresholds, one at 8% and one at 30%. 8% is easily obtainable, but you will never hit 30% from gear. Dark Soul and Heroism/Bloodlust can get you there quickly. There probably isnt much need to get over 8%...10% max once you are in full raid gear.
    Last edited by vaeevictiss; 2012-10-11 at 06:12 PM.

  17. #17
    Simcraft Scale Factors for my gear:
    Int: 3.84
    Hit: 1.44
    Crit: 1.25
    Haste: 1.56
    Mastery: 1.74

    I understand why idea of not being hit capped is confusing, but it is a reality now. With current gear, reforging to hit instead of haste/mastery is a (small) dps loss. I don't really feel comfortable with 7-8%, so had to reforge to ~12%.
    Simcraft takes into account all the things you mentioned, haunt/mana/reaction time and all that.
    Last edited by Ridcully; 2012-10-11 at 07:00 PM.

  18. #18
    The Patient Paarthurnax's Avatar
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    I think at the moment you are pretty safe either going for the 4717 haste threshold or skipping that and stacking mastery. Both methods are simming identically or close enough to be within margin of error.

    (at least for my gear)

    Main:Paarthurnax | Alt:Peijing | <Huge in Japan> 14/14H US#16
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  19. #19
    I've went with the 4717 mark and reforged the rest to mastery. I also changed my int/haste gems to int/mastery ones.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    i dont understand how you think not being hit capped wont hurt dps. If you are at even 14.99% your potential will not be as great as it would be at 15%. You have to realize that the stats are based per cast, not the duration of the encounter. Sure a 1% chance to miss even over a 10m long encounter seems like nothing, but its 1% EACH time you push a button. If that miss happens to be a SB:SW then you just wasted a shard and 3 dots (yes this exact thing happened to me the other day when i was at 14.96% hit because i was seeing how important cap was).

    Missing a few here and there doesnt seem like much, but when you look at what you have to do to compensate for it you will quickly understand.

    So you miss a cast, big deal, you recast. Now you are wasting MG/DS uptime because you missed and had to recast, AND you are wasting mana. When you waste mana, you have to life tap more often, this also takes away from DPS as you are again, wasting time and loosing MG/DS uptime. When you lifetap more, now your healers have to heal you more (unless you have the glyph that just absorbs healing which is probably a very bad thing to use in a raid) and then other people get healed less. You become a burden on the raid group.

    Im sorry, but hit cap is such a huge pet peeve of mine and i never understand why people just dont understand it. All that haste/crit/mastery in the world doesnt mean a damn thing for that spell that didnt land. Just cap the friggin' hit and be done with it. Sure its hard at the moment with gear, but anything above this tier of raiding and you arent hit capped, you shouldnt be in a raid. Gearing up...sure, its understandable.

    Raid members not being hit capped, can easily be the difference between a kill and a wipe on those all too familiar 1% wipes.





    As for the haste/mastery debate. There are two main thresholds, one at 8% and one at 30%. 8% is easily obtainable, but you will never hit 30% from gear. Dark Soul and Heroism/Bloodlust can get you there quickly. There probably isnt much need to get over 8%...10% max once you are in full raid gear.
    Sims show you where your thinking is off. Hit isn't what it used to be. Int is so much stronger than hit that it's worth missing out on hit for it. Same thing with Mastery and haste. It has nothing to do with "missing a spell, and taxing healers". It comes down to raw numbers. Say you need 200 hit rating to hit cap. You have a piece of gear that has that on it. But you also have a piece of gear that is 150 int upgrade. It's worth it to take the int over the hit. Same thing at the beginning of cata. People were a few % under hit cap because it wasn't worth losing int for hit. Same here. Even if you took all of the hit off of your gear, you will still have a 93% chance of landing your spell. So being 1-2% under isn't even anything to worry about.

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