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  1. #21
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    Wouldn't Haste plateaus be meaningless with the introduction of Pandemic? My understanding is that Haste only contributes to how fast the dots tick, regardless of how many ticks there are within one cast... since your dots will (ideally) never expire. When does the "extra tick at the end" ever matter?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Xami View Post
    Wouldn't Haste plateaus be meaningless with the introduction of Pandemic? My understanding is that Haste only contributes to how fast the dots tick, regardless of how many ticks there are within one cast... since your dots will (ideally) never expire. When does the "extra tick at the end" ever matter?
    If your dots are ticking faster you'd still be hitting more regardless of pandemic from start to end, also faster mg channel and haunts aren't anything to just disregard.

    But the flat damage increase is much better.

    Don't worry about plateaus much, reforge mastery over haste. Gem straight mastery over int mastery at bis...
    Last edited by Gohzerlock; 2012-10-12 at 08:16 AM.

  3. #23
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    Yes, I was talking about in terms of Haste's effect on DoTs and plateaus. My point is that Haste increases DPS in between breakpoints, and that breakpoints can be ignored almost entirely.

    Now that I've balanced Haste & Mastery to be about equal, my sim (at ~470 ilvl) shows Haste over Mastery. I think I'll go back to having Haste:Mastery of 6:4 or so.

    However in multi-dot situations (not many) Mastery pulls ahead of Haste, and both Haste and Mastery come closer (but still behind by a large margin) to Int.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by planktin View Post
    With the current state of gear Raw intellect is still our heaviest stat weight for affliction. Should you gem all raw intellect? NO! socket bonuses are strong atm and red gem slots on gear is rare. 10% haste is comfortable for me and this is my target haste plateau before hard reforging mastery. I don't feel hit cap is necessary RIGHT now this is purely preference and affliction has proven to be viable and strong without reforging for hit cap(12-13% hit is adequate for me,when i do reforge to 15%, i have a dps loss) I'm not an extraordinary lock by any means but i'm simcrafted at 75k dps ilvl 474 and perform in that range. Talent points are purely preferential and situation based, there is no de facto talent choice for affliction, aside from Grimoire of Sacrifice.
    Really I'm going for 10% haste, I almost all week I played 15% hit rating(hit cap), full mastery and I'd say MY DPS WAS AWFUL AS SHIT, sorry for it, but i'm really mad why my dps was so low since all reforge, gems change for lock!

    I was a pro lock and now i'm shit as fuck! So i will go for 10% haste plateau and 12-13% hit rating. Nowadays I can't compete with the other locks from my guild.

    But how much it's 10% in numbers, to I reforge on wow reforge, i guess I can't put there by %.


    Last question HOW you put values on Simcraft and after load them for wowreforge, I never was capable to do such thing. Anyone have some video that can show me for example? Or some easy steps to understand all the process?

    Really appreciate some help ^^

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Xami View Post
    Yes, I was talking about in terms of Haste's effect on DoTs and plateaus. My point is that Haste increases DPS in between breakpoints, and that breakpoints can be ignored almost entirely.

    Now that I've balanced Haste & Mastery to be about equal, my sim (at ~470 ilvl) shows Haste over Mastery. I think I'll go back to having Haste:Mastery of 6:4 or so.

    However in multi-dot situations (not many) Mastery pulls ahead of Haste, and both Haste and Mastery come closer (but still behind by a large margin) to Int.
    Hitting a breakpoint increases the duration of your dot. Increasing the duration means you refresh it less often. Refreshing it less often means you have more GCD's for other spells.
    I was personally of the persuasion that between three dots and a constant want for Haste, Haste plateaus shouldn't make much of a difference at all. But, Simcraft is showing otherwise. It may be due to how dots are timed on Simcraft versus practical application (refreshing a dot that hit a breakpoint under lust gives it more Lust time in Simcraft, this can be emulated outside of that breakpoint, to some extent, on live through simple human decision making), or it may be that the extra time gained from not refreshing dots really is that good.

    Here's some simple math:
    At 3040 Haste, Unstable Affliction gains its 8th tick and has a duration of ~14.932 seconds. Over a 300 second fight, you must cast it 20.091 times.
    At 3029 Haste, Unstable Affliction has a duration of ~13.067 seconds. Over that same 300 second fight, you must cast it 22.959 times.
    1 Haste saves you about 2.049 GCD's.

    Also, comparing Haste's statweight to Mastery's is a bit silly. Use reforge plots.

  6. #26
    In my gear which is full hc and 4 epics, scale factors say haste is better than mastery. However, reforge plots say that if it's at the cost of mastery it's a dps loss.

  7. #27
    I've ran alot of sims and for affy its shown me that after 3k haste, mastery completely takes over the stat, that said it would probably be safe to hit some haste points because there is a lot of multi-doting going on in this tier.

  8. #28
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    I currently run with 6644 haste (Agony breakpoint at 6400 and UA at 6637) and the rest into mastery (4891) and hit (capped).
    Last raid, I went for full haste (7.6k or so) and was 1st on our Feng HC kill despite playing only meh.

    I made some reforge plots haste vs mastery +- 2k rating and the difference was never more than 300 or so dps (thats not even 0.5% of my dps), so it's safe to say that they are vastly equal.

    I tend to like haste more than mastery, because it is on the upper hand on high movement fights.

    Oh and I go for secondary stats on gems too: int/haste in red, hit/haste in blue and pure haste in yellow sockets.
    I like mah haste!

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 02:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xami View Post
    Wouldn't Haste plateaus be meaningless with the introduction of Pandemic? My understanding is that Haste only contributes to how fast the dots tick, regardless of how many ticks there are within one cast... since your dots will (ideally) never expire. When does the "extra tick at the end" ever matter?
    That's not ecactly true, because reaching that specific plateau-point increases the number of ticks, which increases the DPET for that specific DoT vastly.

    Example: Corruption has a base duration of 18s and is ticking every 2s. Haste now reduces the time inbetween ticks so that the whole spell lasts 17s but still has 9 ticks.
    If you now get one more point of haste, Corruption will get an additional tick and will last 19s. This does not increase the DPS of Corruption overall but its DPET increases by 11% by this one point of haste.
    This means you need to cast 11% less Corruptions (or SB:SS or whatnot) over the duration of a fight because of that additional tick.

    Pandemic makes no difference as long as you don't recast the DOTs before they have only 50% of their base duration left.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by vaeevictiss View Post
    i dont understand how you think not being hit capped wont hurt dps.
    My RL insists that I'm hit capped, so I don't have to join the argument, but I will. Simcraft 'guesses' what will miss and when, but it's far too RNG to just presume it will always be more DPS to have less hit rating. Maybe over an average of 1000 boss attempts, but during progress wipes? I'd rather hit.

    Can I ask - that spreadsheet is pretty heavy for me to read this morning. Where am I looking - I'm a troll and I don't normally glyph SS. So, do I look at 'Hero/BL/TW + Raid Haste'? It looks like I need about 4200 haste for UA and Corruption to gain an extra tick, whereas only 2900 or so with Agony. My gear isn't awesome so is it safe to say I can go for the 2900 haste and go full mastery? I know I need to use simcraft, I'm just trying to get my head around what this spreadsheet actually tells me. I have quite a lot of crit on my gear so I doubt I can get 4200 haste anyway.
    Last edited by Jenerena; 2012-10-13 at 09:37 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenerena View Post
    My RL insists that I'm hit capped, so I don't have to join the argument, but I will. Simcraft 'guesses' what will miss and when, but it's far too RNG to just presume it will always be more DPS to have less hit rating. Maybe over an average of 1000 boss attempts, but during progress wipes? I'd rather hit.

    Can I ask - that spreadsheet is pretty heavy for me to read this morning. Where am I looking - I'm a troll and I don't normally glyph SS. So, do I look at 'Hero/BL/TW + Raid Haste'? It looks like I need about 4200 haste for UA and Corruption to gain an extra tick, whereas only 2900 or so with Agony. My gear isn't awesome so is it safe to say I can go for the 2900 haste and go full mastery? I know I need to use simcraft, I'm just trying to get my head around what this spreadsheet actually tells me. I have quite a lot of crit on my gear so I doubt I can get 4200 haste anyway.
    You should read what haste you need to get extra ticks under raid haste, which is what you will have 100% of the time. The BL ticks are what you get under the effect of BL.

    It doesn't tell you what haste you need to do higher dps, it tells you what haste you need to get bonus ticks of each dot, most haste caps aren't probably even required.

  11. #31
    What are the current thresholds for affliction? I've seen the spreadsheet on Google documents that's been posted here on the warlock forums, but I am retarded and I don't know how to read it . So many numbers

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciani View Post
    What are the current thresholds for affliction? I've seen the spreadsheet on Google documents that's been posted here on the warlock forums, but I am retarded and I don't know how to read it . So many numbers
    This is what I wrote for my guild:

    Haste thresholds at 90: 3043 (Agony-14) > 4198 (UA-BL-11/Corruption-BL-14) > 4717 (Corruption-11) > 5494 (Agony-BL-19) > 6400 (Agony-15) > 6637 (UA-9)

  13. #33
    Hello fellows, I feel like i may hijack this thread abit, but i hope it's okay!

    Iv'e been trying to wrap my head around Simcraft, but i cannot find or figure out where you guys find HOW you should reforge your gear...or atleast see which stat simcraft thinks you should go for. Any help appriciated, thanks!

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadence View Post
    I've ran alot of sims and for affy its shown me that after 3k haste, mastery completely takes over the stat, that said it would probably be safe to hit some haste points because there is a lot of multi-doting going on in this tier.
    Do you even know what Affli mastery does?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Banez View Post
    Hello fellows, I feel like i may hijack this thread abit, but i hope it's okay!

    Iv'e been trying to wrap my head around Simcraft, but i cannot find or figure out where you guys find HOW you should reforge your gear...or atleast see which stat simcraft thinks you should go for. Any help appriciated, thanks!
    There are 3 types of things you can do with simcraft.

    The first is just straight up stat scaling where you get the weight of your stats for your current gear, which effectively tells you what the best stat to go for for a very short period of time.

    The second is scale plotting, where Simcraft will take the stats you select with your gear, and then on the same graph will put the DPS gain as you gain that stat to the right of center, and DPS loss as you lose that stat to the left. This is much more informative than stat scaling as you can see for large gains of stats which stat is the best to go for, and as you lose stats what is the most important to not lose.

    The third and most informative is reforge-plotting. Simcraft will take up to 3 stats (3 stats is broken and not working atm, so 2 is the best you can do) and give you a graph of DPS as you reforge one stat for another. So say you reforge plot Haste and Mastery. Simcraft will give you a graph where it reforges haste->mastery and mastery-haste. You can then see the highest DPS reforge option for between those two stats.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 12:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadence View Post
    I've ran alot of sims and for affy its shown me that after 3k haste, mastery completely takes over the stat, that said it would probably be safe to hit some haste points because there is a lot of multi-doting going on in this tier.
    Unless you're doing reforge plots then I seriously doubt this. Everything I've done with multiple sets of gear (pre-raid, my own, BiS) has haste and mastery scaling at similar amounts just switching places every 300-400 stats with mastery being more important for multi-dotting.

  16. #36
    Well I had it at 3000-3300 haste for awhile with everything else into mastery at 5600-5900, but whenever I went below 3k haste, it rose slightly above mastery.

    That said, trying out the 6717 haste plateau tonight with 3k mastery and simcraft showing now that haste is WAY above mastery.

    Kinda odd. It doesn't seem like the best way to handle things, seeing as how much mastery adds to our dot damage. But I am sure its great for fights like Will where I am just dotting everything up.

    Apparently It was a bad idea to do haste calculations before bed, was a bit over haste plateau.

    Still, ranked 33 on Will, damage was relavtily the same when compared to other locks with mastery > haste or mastery = haste. Since they are so close in dps to each other its probably all going to depend on how much you can get of each depending on your gear.
    Last edited by Shadence; 2012-10-15 at 05:18 AM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoboMog123 View Post
    Hitting a breakpoint increases the duration of your dot. Increasing the duration means you refresh it less often. Refreshing it less often means you have more GCD's for other spells.
    I was personally of the persuasion that between three dots and a constant want for Haste, Haste plateaus shouldn't make much of a difference at all. But, Simcraft is showing otherwise. It may be due to how dots are timed on Simcraft versus practical application (refreshing a dot that hit a breakpoint under lust gives it more Lust time in Simcraft, this can be emulated outside of that breakpoint, to some extent, on live through simple human decision making), or it may be that the extra time gained from not refreshing dots really is that good.

    Here's some simple math:
    At 3040 Haste, Unstable Affliction gains its 8th tick and has a duration of ~14.932 seconds. Over a 300 second fight, you must cast it 20.091 times.
    At 3029 Haste, Unstable Affliction has a duration of ~13.067 seconds. Over that same 300 second fight, you must cast it 22.959 times.
    1 Haste saves you about 2.049 GCD's.

    Also, comparing Haste's statweight to Mastery's is a bit silly. Use reforge plots.
    OK, I guess I didn't consider the cost of refreshing dots. 2 GCDs saved, with mostly the same DPS (from the dot itself). I suppose if there is a haste value where thresholds for all three DoT lie below within a reasonable amount, hitting that point may be valuable.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Xami View Post
    OK, I guess I didn't consider the cost of refreshing dots. 2 GCDs saved, with mostly the same DPS (from the dot itself). I suppose if there is a haste value where thresholds for all three DoT lie below within a reasonable amount, hitting that point may be valuable.
    Yup, the 4200 mark is very easy to achieve pre-raid, I've chosen to stack mastery for a while after that. I'll go for the 4700ish mark once I get some higher gear levels, but I don't like how much mastery I'd have to sacrifice for it right now considering haste and mastery scale off each other, should be pretty easy to get once you start getting a few epics though.

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