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  1. #21
    Herald of the Titans Mehman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    In addition to this, if a a player finishes an entire dungeon (since his or her time of joining the group), then that player receive a 10% chance of receiving a final bonus item appropriate to their class and specc, randomly selected from all current level dungeons. After a second dungeon, this will increase to 20%, and so on, until you're at 100% at which point you'll receive an epic item. This buff should have a 24 hour cooldown, so then you'll have to start working on it again, and perhaps it should also reset once you receive an epic item.
    This is the only problem I have with what you said. This way epics will become WAY too common place. 10 dungeons may sound like a lot, but it's done very quickly. 100% chance to get an item doesn't sound bad to me, but instead of getting an epic when you reach that, just keep epics at 1/10 the chance of the blue "drop" so that you won't get a free epic.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You are shooting yourself in the foot by constantly spending 10 minutes in a dungeon and leaving before valor rewards, yes its a little but eventually a little adds up. If you take a cup on a hike and every mile someone gives you a squirt of water then by the end of the hike you have a cup full of water to drink but the person who said, "Don't even bother, its not enough for me." gets to the end and wonders why they have an empty cup and the first person has a full cup. You also get 35 justice per boss, which is 105-175 justice per dungeon which could be spent on heirloom gear, justice gear (to fill in ilevel temporarily) or buy mats with that you could sell for gold. Justice gear is better than it was a week ago and is only useless if you have full heroic gear or better.
    I'm not there for valor, I'm there for specific item pieces. Wasting my time staying somewhere I don't need to be once I'm past the boss I want is good time management, not shooting myself in the foot. I don't really give a shit if it slowly adds up. It's too slow, I do not have enough time in my life to indulge like that. As far as justice goes I've been justice capped since the xpac dropped and still have nothing to spend it on, the justice rewards are literally worthless.

  3. #23
    #1 - will not work. If such rule sets were ever implemented (God I hope they don't), it will result in dude, who got the item he wanted, just staying in group and sitting on the floor (alternatively doing massive AoE pulls, or just doing nothing and following your healer) for next 5 minutes (or however long it takes to quit without loosing the item. It will not affect him much, since there already is 30m penalty for dropping group in certain cases. This will result in the rest of the group most likely just kicking him out.

    #2 - will not work. Even thou Blizzard "designs" certain items with certain specs in mind - it doesn't work out that way really. Let me give you an example. After all the theorycrafting it was determined that protection paladins need to cap hit/exp as top priority. Therefore plate items that don't have crit on them are much better for protection paladins than say dodge/parry items. Clearly the later were designed as "tanking items". In reality - we prefer the former due to better itemization.

  4. #24
    Ofcourse people leave if they have nothing to gain from a dungeon, does it matter?

    The next dps will be just as bad/good as the previous one.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  5. #25
    Simple fix, increase the deserter buff. 15/30 mins is nothing. Bring it up to over an hour, maybe even 2 and you'll see people sticking around.

  6. #26
    For ninjas in LFG they should simply use old LFR loot system, main spec gets a +100 bonus to loot roll, as a rogue having a fist weapon ninjaed by a resto sham is not fun at all...

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerofpope View Post
    If it takes you all day to run 10 dungeons, then you're doing something wrong. Horribly wrong. Of course, I'm a tank and get insta-queues, so that cuts out a lot of time.
    20 min to half hour queue (my main is DPS) + 20 min - half hour in the dungeon = ~8 hours to run 10 dungeons if you're actually doing them random, which I generally am. That's basically a full work day on top of my full work day. Sure I can do other stuff while queuing but I'm still basically tied to the computer/game. Add that to the 14 hours a day I spend doing work related stuff (counting travel time to and from work there as well to be fair), and when exactly do I see my family/friends or sleep? 10 randoms a day if you want to keep up is not a reasonable expectation to have of an adult.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-10-11 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Drfireburns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Considering that the LFR loot system only has you rolling against yourself....how did you lose gear to others? Or did you stop running LFR before they changed the loot system?
    I haven't run LFR in MoP yet, but I also stopped running LFR in DS around August. I just remember losing tanking items to DPS a lot.

  9. #29
    Mechagnome
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    There already is a penalty for dropping a group that prevents you from requeueing for 30 (?) minutes.
    As others have mentioned, they contributed to killing the boss and earned the right to roll on and keep loot.
    Your Solution # 1 is also easily beaten by Alt-F4ing out of the game.

    As for ninjas, the LFR loot system should be used for LFD as well. Problem solved.
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  10. #30
    Brewmaster Detheavn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    So you're saying the system should promote ditching people and only working towards selfish purposes? Call me old fashioned, but I think that if you join a dungeon group, then you have to accept responsibility and stay committed until the dungeon is done.
    This is basically what WoW is in an end-game environment. People are simply not doing random dungeons to gear up people you have never met before and never will again. As for determining what is ninjaing, that's actually a tough one. Am I as a holy paladin needing on a ret item a ninja, when ret is my offspec? I think not.

  11. #31
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    In the first week yes, but typically LFR dps takes 12-20 minutes.
    We are talking LFD not LFR. I just queued as dps yesterday and it was over 30 minutes.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by saintlyn View Post
    #1 - will not work. If such rule sets were ever implemented (God I hope they don't), it will result in dude, who got the item he wanted, just staying in group and sitting on the floor (alternatively doing massive AoE pulls, or just doing nothing and following your healer) for next 5 minutes (or however long it takes to quit without loosing the item. It will not affect him much, since there already is 30m penalty for dropping group in certain cases. This will result in the rest of the group most likely just kicking him out.

    #2 - will not work. Even thou Blizzard "designs" certain items with certain specs in mind - it doesn't work out that way really. Let me give you an example. After all the theorycrafting it was determined that protection paladins need to cap hit/exp as top priority. Therefore plate items that don't have crit on them are much better for protection paladins than say dodge/parry items. Clearly the later were designed as "tanking items". In reality - we prefer the former due to better itemization.
    Thanks for the feedback, however negative it is.

    I think the issues you bring up are minor, and could easily be solved by simply modifying my ideas. I mean obviously my ideas are crude and need work before implementation, duh.

    For instance, the time required between loot and leaving could be increased or removed and replaced with the demand to stay until the dungeon finishes to get any of your items that you've looted. This may seem harsh, but frankly I think it's bollocks that some people seem to feel they have the right to abandon others once they've gotten their desired loot. That's not how dungeons were intended to work, and it wastes a lot of time for everyone else involved.

    As for the ninja-preventing mechanic you also criticised, Blizzard doesn't have to be specific to the extreme. It could be on a rather basic level, with priorities such as 1# the right armour type, 2# the right type of stats (on a general level, like agi vs spirit). So as long as you are a kitty or bear druid, you'll receive priority on agility leather and staves (in some cases along with rogues and certain types of monks, etc).
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  13. #33
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ogdru Jahad View Post
    Simple fix, increase the deserter buff. 15/30 mins is nothing. Bring it up to over an hour, maybe even 2 and you'll see people sticking around.
    I've gotten the debuff because I was brought into a FINISHED dungeon. The only thing I could do was drop group. So you want me to sit on a 60 minute debuff because things like this happen?
    Last edited by Baar; 2012-10-11 at 03:43 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Detheavn View Post
    This is basically what WoW is in an end-game environment. People are simply not doing random dungeons to gear up people you have never met before and never will again. As for determining what is ninjaing, that's actually a tough one. Am I as a holy paladin needing on a ret item a ninja, when ret is my offspec? I think not.
    It's not about gearing other people up, it's about finishing the dungeon with the people you sign up to finish a dungeon with. LFD isn't intended to be a system where you pop in, get your item, and pop out. It's intended to be a system to make it easier for people to meet up and complete dungeons together. Leaving is just incredibly rude and slows everyone else down. The fact that it sometimes takes a little bit of time to finish a dungeon is just something you have to deal with if you want the chance to improve your character.

    Imagine if people in a guild just left after each boss they needed while on a raid.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
    Author of: World Enhancement Patch 1.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    Ofcourse people leave if they have nothing to gain from a dungeon, does it matter?

    The next dps will be just as bad/good as the previous one.
    Hell I would just be happy if the next dps knew how to do the next boss. I run scholomance every day for the staff on the final boss and I everytime we go in I seem to be the only one who knows the dungeon and when I ask if everyone knows the boss they either ignore me in fear that they will get booted or they figure its a tank and spank. I havent had a scholomance yet that the group hasn't wiped and left me as last man standing.

    I even had one tank shoot into the fight right after I asked if anyone needed to know the fight and he responded, "Mop dungeons are tank and spank, dont need to know mechanics." and then after the wipe, "Okay smartypants, whats the mechanic to this fight?"

  16. #36
    I wouldn't mind the 10% chance for an extra item if you finish the entire dungeon.

    However if I were to want to quit after getting an item and would lose it if I did so within 5 minutes, what's to stop me from just AFK'ing after I get it and forcing the group to go on without me or boot me? So no, I don't think that would provide any solution.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Hell I would just be happy if the next dps knew how to do the next boss. I run scholomance every day for the staff on the final boss and I everytime we go in I seem to be the only one who knows the dungeon and when I ask if everyone knows the boss they either ignore me in fear that they will get booted or they figure its a tank and spank. I havent had a scholomance yet that the group hasn't wiped and left me as last man standing.

    I even had one tank shoot into the fight right after I asked if anyone needed to know the fight and he responded, "Mop dungeons are tank and spank, dont need to know mechanics." and then after the wipe, "Okay smartypants, whats the mechanic to this fight?"
    I understand that, but there's no guarantee that the first dps knew the tactics either right, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.

    Sure you could have 1 great dps that needs an item and leaves when he gets it/doesn't get it. But it could've been a bad one from the start, just be happy the first part went better :P
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    It's not about gearing other people up, it's about finishing the dungeon with the people you sign up to finish a dungeon with. LFD isn't intended to be a system where you pop in, get your item, and pop out. It's intended to be a system to make it easier for people to meet up and complete dungeons together. Leaving is just incredibly rude and slows everyone else down. The fact that it sometimes takes a little bit of time to finish a dungeon is just something you have to deal with if you want the chance to improve your character.

    Imagine if people in a guild just left after each boss they needed while on a raid.
    Frankly the only thing that is going to stop selfish people from dropping the party is if the penalty for leaving a party is too painful to bear. It would have to be something strong like, "Cant Que up for an hour, give you 15 min death weakness penalty and can't cue up for that dungeon again until tuesday."

    But the downside to that is if I get in a party of totally incompetant noobs who can't get the basic mechanics down then I am punished for trying to preserve my own sanity.

  19. #39
    I still don't get how i'm obligated to stay through an entire dungeon with people i got randomly matched with tho, please explain.

    Edit: It's not like you have to go back to Orgrimmar and yell for 45 minutes that you want someone to kill 2 more bosses in an heroic.
    You just click the queue button again, and boom a new player enters your group.
    Last edited by Tryana; 2012-10-11 at 02:23 PM.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    For instance, the time required between loot and leaving could be increased or removed and replaced with the demand to stay until the dungeon finishes to get any of your items that you've looted. This may seem harsh, but frankly I think it's bollocks that some people seem to feel they have the right to abandon others once they've gotten their desired loot. That's not how dungeons were intended to work, and it wastes a lot of time for everyone else involved.
    In what world does it take a lot of time to replace someone? Your group goes right to the top of the queue, and with the grinding currently going on replacements are instant and they're even teleported right to the group.

    I think you have a very idealised view of what dungeons are meant to be. Just because that's what they are to you, doesn't mean that's how other people see them. I think if you want that kind of experience you should probably be queuing with friends. Right now I see them as annoying lootbags, and while I'm sure there's nice people queuing randoms there's also many, many god awful players (is it just me that's noticed a large number of 15kish DPS appear? How is that even possible?) and total assholes in the mix as well, and honestly I don't want to stand still long enough to figure out what each group member is.

    On thinking it over actual viable justice rewards would probably convince me to stay for more justice. The having to treat it as a loot grind and manage it as efficiently as possible thing came out of the fact that you literally need to grind like that to get the set you want in whatever time from you have. Blizz is the one who made the system. Can't blame people for adapting to it in the way they use it.

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