Thanks for proving my point.
Thanks for proving my point.
But to bring it down to the original problem: If I know I park somewhere where some crazy people live that shit on my windshield and after they do it someone else is coming and cleaning it up, I would definitely not go "bat shit", but simply shrug my shoulders and wait for the cleaner.
Solution 1 is ridiculous and goes against what blizzard has said. They don't want you to be "guaranteed" loot. (Excuse VP/daily stuff) It would never happen. Not even a 10% chance. This shouldn't be some type of D3 system where as you kill heroic bosses you gain a stacking buff (NV) and have a better chance at stuff until which point its guranteed. Heroics would be rendered useless and everyone would have welfare epics.
Solution 2 used to be in place. A hunter could only roll on mail AGI gear and nothing else. This system seems to either be bugging or hasnt been put into the new dungeons, and will most likely find its way in the near future.
I'm partially against option 2 aswell. I que for heroics as a healer and roll on DPS gear because its faster for me to que, and it helps ques for other people. LFR Kind of makes me rage that I can't control what version of loot I get (Dps/heals) only based on the spec I am at the time of kill. If this solution were in place, your que times for both heroics and LFR would skyrocket at certain periods of time during a raid life cycle.
I think solution 2 should be revised to only being able to roll on gear of your item class. Paladin rolls on plate, priest on cloth, etc. Regardless of the type of stats. This would help keep healthy que times, and not make me angrypandaface.
Last edited by Rorillane; 2012-10-11 at 03:54 PM.
The problem with the suggestion brought up over and over to just "do LFR loot in LFD" is the fact that the developers WANT you to be able to get some offspec gear in 5 mans. You can't get any offspec gear with the LFR loot system, meaning that if you are a tank and want to build a dps set, you need to go buy an entire set off of the AH, or go back and get questing greens to start in, and then queue for dps, in your greens, to start getting a decent dps set.
Ditto for the other way around. We'd likely see a lot less LFD tanks and healers because a lot of them are main spec dps when they raid and only go heals or tank for queue time. If it took that much more effort for them to build a set, they likely wouldn't bother. And I don't include valor items in this because they are rather difficult to get and if you raid you're unlikely to get to blow them all on offspec pieces.
If they could come up with something like LFR but where you get to choose what spec(s) of yours you want to be eligible for loot, then maybe they could bring that to LFD. You'd have the same overall chance to get loot, just it'd be split between specs you choose. So if you're a fully geared tank pally and you want a holy set, you could just pick holy gear only and start getting that set worked on instead, at LFR normal odds and pacing.
I don't have a problem with not getting offspec gear in LFR loot system, if you want gear for offspec then play as the offspec once in a while. Want Tank gear? Play as the tank.
Putting a penality is no a good idea. Too many people will get upset when forces outside their control prevent them from finishing (ie power outage, emergency, disconnects, game crashes). Providing an incentive to complete the dungeon would be a better idea.
So in most case, I want some piece of gear that people who dont know about the blood spec would call DPS gear.
With your idea, I'm screwed if I'm tagged "tank" and can only roll on parry dodge shit.
And what about the cloth dps classes who wants spitits stuff because of the spirit-->hit conversion?
Additionally running scenarios as tank is less useful than being a dps so you can't really count on them to gear your offset, especially with how little of the time they actually give gear. Ditto except x100 for running as a healer. Healers are basically completely useless unless they can do significant dps, like a disc priest.
Last edited by neccowafer; 2012-10-11 at 04:18 PM.
I really don't think people leaving dungeon runs in the middle of a run is something that needs to be "fixed." Replacement is usually quick, and unless it's a tank or a healer you can continue without them while you wait (and oftentimes even if it is a tank or healer). Unless they leave in the middle of a fight, I don't really understand why it would bother people, much less seem like a critical issue that needs fixed by bribing people to stay longer.
If you make a premade group with people you know, I can totally understand the obligation to stay so your friends don't get stuck having to replace you with a PuG, but for a bunch of random strangers in LFD, why would you care if PuG X leaves and you get PuG Y instead? We're all there for something, whether it is a piece of loot or point currency or whatever. If some dude only needed one piece of loot and it didn't drop, why shouldn't he take off so someone else who might need gear off the final boss be able to come in and have a shot at it?
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Getting a guaranteed epic and having a 100% chance to actually get an item a little too far just because you ran 10 dungeons. But generally I like both solutions. #1 will need to be tweaked a bit to not get such high values. Go post on WoW forums and hope for a blue to read it.
I think solution 1 is bull crap. What if i had an emergency and had to leave a group after a boss fight? What if i was running a dungeon and lost track of time and had to go but wanted to get 1 more boss fight in? Why am i being penalized?
Here is what a ninja is. A ninja is a person who either has control over loot distribution and uses that control to take items for himself without prior knowlege of others involved. AKA a LootMaster in a raid putting items in his bags and not allowing others to roll on them.
-If this raid had preset rules and items on reserve then him taking those reserve items is not being a ninja
Here is what a ninja is not. A person lets say a Disc priest running a random dungeon with 4 other players. Boss drops a trinket with Hit, spellpower and mastery. If the disc priest Hits NEED, he is not being a ninja, he is gearing his offspec.
If a Feral Druid hits NEED on a Spirit/Crit staff, he is not being a ninja he is gearing his offspec.
Blame blizz for having multiple specs dont blame the players for wanting to play multiple styles
Pretty sure there are so many safe guards nowadays that you cant ninja an item. Needing on Offspecs is not ninjaing no matter how bad you want that item.
Considering how many posters are against these ideas, I suppose I am simply caught in the collective mindset of the community from 2-3 years back, when people actually cared about being polite and decent to other players, and working together to achieve things.
Let me ask you: what is the point of even having dungeons in the game if their sole purpose is to provide the individual player with quick items? They could easily implement more single player experiences instead, like big epic quests for your class or some sort of solo-dungeon. Those could challenge us even more than dungeons do, and wouldn't require queues.
But they don't, because this is an MMORPG, and Blizzard want it to be mostly a multi-player experience where people fight the perils of Azeroth together as teams. The fact that so many consider it to be perfectly normal to leave dungeons in the middle of it, right after getting their own loot, is only an indicator that Blizzard is doing something wrong, and not that it's the right thing to do or working as intended.
A lot of people would probably loot hardware stores too, if there weren't any alarms or police around - that doesn't mean it's the way things are intended, or should be.
While my ideas certainly need work before implementation, and a whole array of factors would have to be considered as well for each little decision, I think dismissing them or the issue we have as wrong, lame, or bad is simply ignorant.
So to summarise:
Okay, perhaps you shouldn't be penalized for wanting to go at it solo-style and only think about the fastest way to your own character's progression. We all have different ideas of what is fun, and spending time with others isn't fun for everyone.
However, dungeons were intended to be cooperative challenges. And because they have a beginning, a middle, and an end, they are obviously meant to be completed. Otherwise these bosses would be offered as solo encounters. The fact that Blizzard also offers extra reward for finishing a dungeon supports this fact, too.
I say it is up to Blizzard to make sure running full dungeons is fun, rewarding, and efficient enough to everyone in order to make sure people stay through the whole thing.
While my ideas aren't perfect, they are attempts at improving an obviously bad situation.
I think solution 2 would have the better result.
For the night is dark and full of terrors
Let me open up with I don't take gear from people if they legitimately need it. If I see a healer with a 380 weapon, I'm not snagging the 463 away. I'm perfectly in my right to do so, but I honestly don't plan to heal much. I'd much rather a dps steal tanking items than try to tank with ilvl 435. Same with healers.
Now, with that out of the way, If I have to quit, you don't know the reason. I might be sick, I might have an irl emergency, Maybe it's raid time. Punishing people for that is kind of an asshole thing. If you really want to know - talk to them after they leave, Most of the time that I've seen(from people on my server) It's something work related. Occasionally they just didn't want to finish it - and that's fine to.
I just feel more and more people as of late are forgetting this is a game. It's intended to have fun. Yes, losing a piece of gear sucks - but it's still getting used 99% of the time. It's very VERY rare that someone steals an item just to DE it. Now, those are the people I have a problem with.
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I'm pretty sure that if an emergency arises, a lost dungeon item in World of Warcraft isn't what you should be concerned about. Also, real emergencies occur very seldom.
If you did simply lose track of time, then perhaps you shouldn't have joined a dungeon run in the first place? Perhaps Blizzard should state the average time it takes to run each dungeon in its information, so people have it in consideration. Being fully aware that you have 20 minutes to play and still joining the dungeon is simply rude and shouldn't be something Blizzard takes into consideration.
Giving people a 10% chance to receive a random item at the end of a dungeon will just create more whining about RNG. And there is already a 30min penalty for leaving a dungeon that, if you're grinding dungeons, can be long enough in my opinion.
Otherwise, just go back into queue. If you lose a DPS, it only takes all of five seconds to find a new one.
Last edited by StationaryHawk; 2012-10-11 at 04:47 PM.