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  1. #121
    People who drop dungeons before the end should have their account permanently closed.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  2. #122
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Because a system penalizing players for not playing with you isn't selfish?
    No, because they choose to use the LFD system to find their groups. At that point, it should be assumed that you are there to complete the dungeon, not dick off after the piece that you want doesn't drop.

    And when someone does leave a group, they are not only wasting my time, but the time of 3 others as well. It's incredibly rude and selfish.
    Last edited by Chry; 2012-10-11 at 10:27 PM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    There's evidently a clear divide here.

    But what say we skip the punishment part for leaving, and increase the rewards for staying? I could be fine with the negative impact of 'quitters' if the rewards I reap in the end for staying are greater. They shouldn't earn more than me or progress more than me for being selfish pricks, end of story.

    Yes, you will argue that there's nothing wrong in leaving if your item drops after the first boss. It is the most logical thing to do, because you might benefit more from it. But it's not the right thing to do, just like robbing a convenient store for quick money isn't the right thing to do. Blizzard simply fails to get that reasoning through with its bad mechanics right now, but hopefully this will change, and with it people will change.

    Like I said earlier, the community mattered more in the past and served as law enforcer for Blizzard, as very few people wanted to be seen in a bad light by the community. There were even lists going around on some servers with ninjas, quitters, and other annoying people's names on them, and most people had many names on the /ignore list.

    Now, the community doesn't exist outside the guild or the forum, and therefore new rules are needed to make people behave.
    It is a balancing act, you reward players with something, it affects another thing. If you reward a player for staying 100g for example, that can drive inflation in AH cause it is just another way you can get easy gold. Obviously that is just a simple example, but you need rewards enough for people to stay and those rewards could be harmful in the long run. The only solution I can make is only for people who drop out who don't get the gear they want after a certain boss and that is the end boss of a instance has the whole loot table of all the other bosses and some new items as well. It would definitely solve the problem of people leaving if their loot doesn't drop or at least for the most part it does.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Kane49 View Post
    Dude, what on earth is hard to program in checking that you left the group 5 minutes after you got an item ?
    Need to leave for some random reason ? => you left the group, nothing else matters which btw is a design call and has nothing to do with the implementation.
    Code lines breaking ? do you actually believe they have a huge monolithic lump of procedural code that has to be rewritten everytime something new enters the system ?

    Same thing for that buff, most of the things you describe are design choices being insanely easy to program.

    However on point 3 your completely right, quantifying genuine benefit is nigh impossible.
    I am a software developer.

    THIS IS AN EXTREMELY high level description of how EVERY tiny, itty,bitty little code chaneg gets implemented:

    "SQA encompasses the entire software development process, which includes processes such as requirements definition, software design, coding, source code control, code reviews, change management, configuration management, testing, release management, and product integration. SQA is organized into goals, commitments, abilities, activities, measurements, and verifications"

    The above is JUST the QA process, AFTER it has gone through Business Requirements, Technical Analysis, System Requirements, Test Case Scenarios, Test Planning, DEVELOPMENT, CODING, etc etc. Let's not forget that JUST testing it includes:

    -Regression testing
    -Smoke testing
    -Black boxing
    -White boxing

    So, yeah. Numbnutted little vidiots ALWAYS think a programming solution is EASY and EXPEDIENT JUST because it's a SMALL THING.

    The SMALL part is ONLY in the actual gameplay, not the fucking programming and development. So, yes, a stupid, minor little change takes HUGE amounts of effort from sometimes DOZENS of people for WEEKS at a time.

    Someday, when you grow up, if you decide to continue your education and get out in the real world, you may even have a career that involves such complex methodologies, so you can assure your TEN MILLION PLUS subscriber base doesn't have THEIR RECREATIONAL GAME BROKEN because a few whiny assholes decided they needed a change and needed it INSTANTLY.

    For clarification: MAYBE a change is needed in the programming, I don't agree, but maybe. HOWEVER: It's not just a "little code change" or a "tweak" in the system. I'm just fucking tired of so many people thinking it's "just that easy" when they really have no idea how the process works.
    Last edited by Ebbikenezer; 2012-10-11 at 10:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Komie View Post
    They still say Cata needs a lot of work, and this expansion (edit for reference: MoP) is in the final stages.
    Quoted for... truth? on 11/30/2011.

  5. #125
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    #1 is a bad idea. Sometimes something comes up and someone tries to squeeze in one more boss. I know I do that. If possible, I stay with the group if I have time for the boss, and then bail. I should not be punished for having a legit reason for leaving the group.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  6. #126
    Seriously, someone help me understand the issue with droppers. I never drop, but when people do the spot gets filled in 30 seconds. Why are people freaking out? I would rather they leave than stay and ark or just grief, because that would happen.

    And what about an honest DC? How do you differentiate that from someone pulling their cable?
    "Peace is a lie"

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    No, because they choose to use the LFD system to find their groups. At that point, it should be assumed that you are there to complete the dungeon, not dick off after the piece that you want doesn't drop.

    And when someone does leave a group, they are not only wasting my time, but the time of 3 others as well. It's incredibly rude and selfish.
    What time?

    I've never waited more than a few seconds for a new DPS.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  8. #128
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    #1 is a bad idea. Sometimes something comes up and someone tries to squeeze in one more boss. I know I do that. If possible, I stay with the group if I have time for the boss, and then bail. I should not be punished for having a legit reason for leaving the group.
    That's fine, you won't unless you take a piece of loot off of that boss.

    Number 1 isn't for everyone in general, just people to need on a piece of loot and quickly leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    What time?

    I've never waited more than a few seconds for a new DPS.
    Well that's cool and all, but all of my experiences with people leaving have been tanks. This usually leads to the next tank just leaving due to the boss that they wanted the loot off of already being dead. Every time this has happened it usually takes 4 minutes for the tanks to cycle through until we get a tank that actually wants to tank.

    Tankity tank tank tank.
    Last edited by Chry; 2012-10-11 at 10:41 PM.

  9. #129
    The only other thing I can think of is increase the deserter time to at least 30 mins and make it account wide. However that would piss a lot of people off lol.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by xsublymonalx View Post
    First suggestion is stupid as hell. Who cares if they leave after they get their item? They did just as much work as you on the boss to get the chance at it.

    The second one is what they should have been doing all along, since it's ridiculous for specs to be able to roll on anything but what their spec needs.
    Oh, they did exactly as much work, yes? And what about the next boss, that someone out of the group needs an item? You just looted something and then get your ass out of it because you don't want to waste time for your team members. That is the seed which really destroys the community and should therefore be punished.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebbikenezer View Post
    I am a software developer.

    THIS IS AN EXTREMELY high level description of how EVERY tiny, itty,bitty little code chaneg gets implemented:

    "SQA encompasses the entire software development process, which includes processes such as requirements definition, software design, coding, source code control, code reviews, change management, configuration management, testing, release management, and product integration. SQA is organized into goals, commitments, abilities, activities, measurements, and verifications"

    The above is JUST the QA process, AFTER it has gone through Business Requirements, Technical Analysis, System Requirements, Test Case Scenarios, Test Planning, DEVELOPMENT, CODING, etc etc. Let's not forget that JUST testing it includes:

    -Regression testing
    -Smoke testing
    -Black boxing
    -White boxing

    So, yeah. Numbnutted little vidiots ALWAYS think a programming solution is EASY and EXPEDIENT JUST because it's a SMALL THING.

    The SMALL part is ONLY in the actual gameplay, not the fucking programming and development. So, yes, a stupid, minor little change takes HUGE amounts of effort from sometimes DOZENS of people for WEEKS at a time.

    Someday, when you grow up, if you decide to continue your education and get out in the real world, you may even have a career that involves such complex methodologies, so you can assure your TEN MILLION PLUS subscriber base doesn't have THEIR RECREATIONAL GAME BROKEN because a few whiny assholes decided they needed a change and needed it INSTANTLY.

    For clarification: MAYBE a change is needed in the programming, I don't agree, but maybe. HOWEVER: It's not just a "little code change" or a "tweak" in the system. I'm just fucking tired of so many people thinking it's "just that easy" when they really have no idea how the process works.
    Did you really just post to tell him he's wrong?

  12. #132
    The Lightbringer foxHeart's Avatar
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    The dungeons are boring and easy and most importantly, it's my time. Why should I be punished for wanting to do a specific boss for a specific item and then leaving after that boss is dead? Such a completely childish, crybaby attitude to have. Sorry that a 2 minute wait is apparently killing you.
    Last edited by foxHeart; 2012-10-11 at 11:11 PM.
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  13. #133
    Warchief tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    I don't see the problem with dropping group at all, especially as DPS. It might be selfish, but "hey, you can't leave, it could take us a whole thirty seconds to get a replacement" is selfish too.
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  14. #134
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    The dungeons are boring and easy and most importantly, it's my time. Why should I be punished to wanting to do a specific boss for a specific item? Such a completely childish, crybaby attitude to have.
    You should be punished because in leaving the group after you win a specific item, you are forcing the entire group to stop, and wait until someone takes your place. It's our time too, you know.

  15. #135
    The Lightbringer foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    You should be punished because in leaving the group after you win a specific item, you are forcing the entire group to stop, and wait until someone takes your place. It's our time too, you know.
    Most times, the wait is less than a minute, if not just instantaneous. Get over it. Most people can hold their breath longer than it takes to find a new member. lol

    Also, heroics are so easy that you can often continue w/o heals or dps or even tanks, given the right trash. l2resourcefulness
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  16. #136
    Might as well make afking punishable too. Or anything that inconveniences players in any way, really.

  17. #137
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Most times, the wait is less than a minute, if not just instantaneous. Get over it. Most people can hold their breath longer than it takes to find a new member. lol

    Also, heroics are so easy that you can often continue w/o heals or dps or even tanks, given the right trash. l2resourcefulness
    Well, how hard is it to put in the extra 5 minutes to finish the dungeon? Perhaps you should be more grateful to the people who helped you get that piece of loot - and help finish the dungeon, instead of spitting in their face and leaving right after you win it.

    In the end, you're completely screwing 4 other people because you're either lazy or selfish, which should be punished in an environment such as the LFD groups.
    Last edited by Chry; 2012-10-11 at 11:30 PM.

  18. #138
    Warchief tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    I think we have different definitions of "completely screwing".

    "Completely screwing" is me pulling the entire instance because I'm being forced to stay with people like you.
    Did you like the above post? How about sending me a dollar? I'd have adverts here but apparently that'd break ToS.

  19. #139
    Like I said, dungeons are meant to be played through in full. That is the intention when Blizzard makes the content. If people don't like running dungeons, that's fine. But the ones who do shouldn't be punished, as they currently are, however indirectly. It is the ones who stick through the entire thing, like we're meant to, who should get faster loot. Enough about that.

    If you wan't to get a quick piece of loot and get out, maybe you are in the wrong business? Perhaps dungeons and raids isn't for you? It's all about the hard work, you know. Not just getting instant loot. Obviously no one wants to do the hard work if it isn't rewarding, which is why I want Blizzard to change things so that all of us want to go through the hard work.
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  20. #140
    The Lightbringer foxHeart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Well, how hard is it to put in the extra 5 minutes to finish the dungeon? Perhaps you should be more grateful to the people who helped you get that piece of loot - and help finish the dungeon, instead of spitting in their face and leaving right after you win it.

    In the end, you're completely screwing 4 other people because you're either lazy or selfish, which should be punished in an environment such as the LFD groups.
    No. The solution here is for you and all others like you to be less butthurt about completely meaningless shit. Do I get angry over someone leaving my group after a boss? No, because I understand why they leave. People want to get geared, they don't want to waste their time in dungeons that they don't need to even be in.

    "Completely screwing over". Because a 30 second wait is just that. Oh dear Jesus, the melodrama people serve up to prove bad points. lol
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