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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    No. The solution here is for you and all others like you to be less butthurt about completely meaningless shit. Do I get angry over someone leaving my group after a boss? No, because I understand why they leave. People want to get geared, they don't want to waste their time in dungeons that they don't need to even be in.

    "Completely screwing over". Because a 30 second wait is just that. Oh dear Jesus, the melodrama people serve up to prove bad points. lol
    Are you trying hard not to understand our arguments or something? No one is trying to prevent anyone from getting geared. We're trying to make sure people get geared in an appropriate way with as little griefing, ninjaing, butt-hurting and annoyances as possible. It is very simple:

    Dungeons - meant to be played until the end.
    Loot - meant to be a reward for the effort put into a dungeon.
    Quitters - not playing the content as intended, i.e not playing the dungeon until the end, i.e abusing a broken system.
    Remaining group members - Punished for playing the game as intended, by waiting for a new member and for receiving loot slower than people who loot and run.

    We know Blizzard wants us to play until the end and not leave our groups, because they reward the former and punish the latter. Only, they obviously aren't doing it enough seeing as the problem persists.

    It is that simple.

    Now, if Blizzard were to fix this, for instance by increasing the reward for remaining in the dungeon until the end, thus making the time invested in it worthwhile and more beneficial to a character's progression than quitting halfway through, what on Earth is your issue? Why are you defending a broken system simply because it works for you?

    If, let's make a very rough estimate, about half the playerbase is slightly annoyed by quitters (evidently, most people do not quit, we can all testify to that because it's always the one guy who leaves), then I'd say it's a very appropriate thing to do to solve the problem by slightly altering the design. You quitters will be happier, the rest of us will be happy, and the issue will go away. M'kay?
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  2. #142
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Hard work? Punished? "Meant to"?

    Quite frankly, I think you just want to feel like you're superior to the other people who play this game. So you've created these definitions and decided how the game should be played "properly". So you can look down upon everybody who doesn't play the game how you think it should be played. So you want to introduce penalties for leaving dungeons, and you want to introduce dishonourable kills for people who don't PvP properly, so you can feel better than the people who are doing it wrong.

    Dungeons aren't hard work. You're not being punished if somebody leaves your group. You're not "meant to" do anything, otherwise Blizzard would already have taken steps to remedy the problem.
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  3. #143
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    No. The solution here is for you and all others like you to be less butthurt about completely meaningless shit. Do I get angry over someone leaving my group after a boss? No, because I understand why they leave. People want to get geared, they don't want to waste their time in dungeons that they don't need to even be in.

    "Completely screwing over". Because a 30 second wait is just that. Oh dear Jesus, the melodrama people serve up to prove bad points. lol
    It's obviously not "meaningless shit" if so many people care about it and a 7 page thread has persisted. Also, the fact that you don't care if someone leaves is irrelevant, as you practice the same thing. The fact is that when someone leaves, it wastes an undetermined amount of time to fill that group. The amount of time you say is irrelevant as well, as I have been in a 4 minute wait for a tank.

    At that point you are being selfish, and taking an undetermined amount of time away from 4 other people because you wouldn't just help the group that helped you. You are also potentially ruining another player's chances at loot by forcing them to get put in a dungeon that has been somewhat cleared. It is very clearly all around rude.
    Last edited by Chry; 2012-10-12 at 12:02 AM.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    You're not "meant to" do anything, otherwise Blizzard would already have taken steps to remedy the problem.
    Except for the long history of changing their minds and/or enacting systems to deal with these issues (LFD, dungeon deserter, LFR, LFR role bonuses, LFR's current loot system), yeah.

  5. #145
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appletini View Post
    Except for the long history of changing their minds and/or enacting systems to deal with these issues (LFD, dungeon deserter, LFR, LFR role bonuses, LFR's current loot system), yeah.
    Yep, they have deserter debuffs, but nothing for this. That should tell you something.
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  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    Hard work? Punished? "Meant to"?

    Quite frankly, I think you just want to feel like you're superior to the other people who play this game. So you've created these definitions and decided how the game should be played "properly". So you can look down upon everybody who doesn't play the game how you think it should be played. So you want to introduce penalties for leaving dungeons, and you want to introduce dishonourable kills for people who don't PvP properly, so you can feel better than the people who are doing it wrong.

    Dungeons aren't hard work. You're not being punished if somebody leaves your group. You're not "meant to" do anything, otherwise Blizzard would already have taken steps to remedy the problem.
    Quite frankly, with arguments like this - after the extensive post full of arguments we have so far - I feel that you might be trolling us.

    I'm in no way on a high horse. I am simply reciting the obvious facts that we are all very well aware of. Seeing as how some people are trying to make us who care about the issue out to look like cry babies who do not get the system, I feel this is required.

    Blizzard penalizes leaving dungeons early, and hands out rewards for finishing them. It has been a major issue for years, of where to put the bar on rewards in order to balance giving enough incentive to finish dungeons versus not handing out too much goodies for something most people do anyway, thus inflating the server and making progression too quick.

    This is clear evidence that Blizzard wants us to finish our dungeons, play along nicely with the people we meet, and have a steady progression on gear which takes a bit of time to finish. Their system isn't meeting the game's criteria any longer, and thus needs to be revised. It might have worked better in the past, as the game had a slower pace then, but it doesn't today.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    You know what really grinds my gears?

    The fact that after seven years of WoW, people can still leave dungeon groups right after they get their item, or ninja items that other people deserve more.

    Solution #1 - Quitting Groups

    If a group doesn't consist only of you and people from your friend list or guild, then the game will check for the first person to click 'Leave group' within 5 minutes of getting a superior or epic item and before the dungeon has finished. That person will lose the item he just looted as he quits the group.

    In addition to this, if a a player finishes an entire dungeon (since his or her time of joining the group), then that player receive a 10% chance of receiving a final bonus item appropriate to their class and specc, randomly selected from all current level dungeons. After a second dungeon, this will increase to 20%, and so on, until you're at 100% at which point you'll receive an epic item. This buff should have a 24 hour cooldown, so then you'll have to start working on it again, and perhaps it should also reset once you receive an epic item.


    Solution #2 - Ninjas


    When Blizzard level designers create a new dungeon, each item they implement as loot should be categorised as appropriate for agility users, tanks, dmg casters, and so on. As soon as an item drops from a boss, only people who can genuinely benefit from it will be allowed to roll. Once they've all selected greed or turned down the roll, anyone else may roll as well.


    Thoughts?

    I agree with the second one but the first one is a terrible idea. As someone that has had to drop group for different reasons, (helping a guildy, raid time, RL stuff, etc.) I would be entirely against this. Why should your crappy random dungeon be more important than my guild raid or my RL surprises that require my attention?

  8. #148
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    I am simply reciting the obvious facts that we are all very well aware of.
    No, not facts, opinions. "I am playing this game right and the rest of you aren't."

    Personally I think we should ban people who don't click on lightwells, they're not playing the game how it is meant to be played, punishing the rest of us by using up the healer's mana. I mean if they don't want to do the hard work of clicking lightwells then they're playing the wrong game. BAN THEM ALL.
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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Manataurus View Post
    I agree with the second one but the first one is a terrible idea. As someone that has had to drop group for different reasons, (helping a guildy, raid time, RL stuff, etc.) I would be entirely against this. Why should your crappy random dungeon be more important than my guild raid or my RL surprises that require my attention?
    Like I've said before: why would a dungeon item matter that much to you if other things you have going on are so much more important, and on top of that dungeons are 'crappy'? Some of us care for the dungeon experience.

    While I understand that you sometimes have to leave because things pop up, I don't think situations like helping a guildie out or joining a raid constitute as valid reasons for ditching 4 other people you signed up to play with. If you have stuff going on, don't join a dungeon with others you don't know. If stuff pops up that you'd rather do instead, face the consequences of your choices. Finishing the dungeon would probably take you something between 10 and 20 minutes. It would be up to you.

    But I sure as hell don't think the game should reward you for prioritising other things instead of the dungeon - at least not when you have 4 other people investing their time and relying on your commitment. Yes, new people join, but every interruption is an interruption. I've had pauses long enough for the entire party to go about their own business until someone finally joins after a few minutes. I've also had entire groups disband because some guy felt it was his cue to leave, which caused the rest to go into a sort of disarray or state of impatience where waiting for a replacement just felt too tedious or annoying to deal with.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 01:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    No, not facts, opinions. "I am playing this game right and the rest of you aren't."

    Personally I think we should ban people who don't click on lightwells, they're not playing the game how it is meant to be played, punishing the rest of us by using up the healer's mana. I mean if they don't want to do the hard work of clicking lightwells then they're playing the wrong game. BAN THEM ALL.
    Read my post and open your eyes. What I gave you is evidence, not opinions. You know I am right on that particular issue, and you are blatantly denying it because you simply won't be proven wrong. You have my deepest sympathies.
    Last edited by Mojo Risin; 2012-10-12 at 12:25 AM.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Like I've said before: why would a dungeon item matter that much to you if other things you have going on are so much more important, and on top of that dungeons are 'crappy'? Some of us care for the dungeon experience.

    While I understand that you sometimes have to leave because things pop up, I don't think situations like helping a guildie out or joining a raid constitute as valid reasons for ditching 4 other people you signed up to play with. If you have stuff going on, don't join a dungeon with others you don't know. If stuff pops up that you'd rather do instead, face the consequences of your choices. Finishing the dungeon would probably take you something between 10 and 20 minutes. It would be up to you.

    But I sure as hell don't think the game should reward you for prioritising other things instead of the dungeon - at least not when you have 4 other people investing their time and relying on your commitment. Yes, new people join, but every interruption is an interruption. I've had pauses long enough for the entire party to go about their own business until someone finally joins after a few minutes. I've also had entire groups disband because some guy felt it was his cue to leave, which caused the rest to go into a sort of disarray or state of impatience where waiting for a replacement just felt too tedious or annoying to deal with.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 01:23 AM ----------



    Read my post and open your eyes. What I gave you is evidence, not opinions. You know I am right on that particular issue, and you are blatantly denying it because you simply won't be proven wrong. You have my deepest sympathies.
    Isn't not being able to do the rest of the dungeon punishing enough for someone leaving? You at least get a chance on more gear and valor/justice.

  11. #151
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Read my post and open your eyes. What I gave you are evidence, not opinions. You know I am right on that particular issue, and you are blatantly denying it because you simply won't be proven wrong. You have my deepest sympathies.
    Yes yes, you're completely right, everybody else is doing it wrong. There's absolutely nothing factual in this thread, this is just you and a few others complaining because you think that other people are being selfish because they're not playing how you think they should.

    Right now I'm far more concerned about those lightwell assholes, and those people who stand on top of NPCs without dismounting. I mean if they don't want to do the hard work of dismounting then they're playing the wrong game. They're not playing the game how it is meant to be played, punishing the rest of us and being incredibly selfish. BAN THEM ALL.
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  12. #152
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    There's absolutely nothing factual in this thread
    Wrong.

    Fact: When one person leaves a dungeon group, the others players need to wait an undetermined amount of time for replacements.
    Fact: When one person leaves a dungeon group after a boss kill, another player is forced to join a dungeon that is partially cleared.
    Fact: When one person leaves a dungeon group, the other players are getting their time wasted.

    All three I've covered in previous posts of mine.

  13. #153
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Wrong.

    Fact: When one person leaves a dungeon group, the others players need to wait an undetermined amount of time for replacements.
    Fact: When one person leaves a dungeon group after a boss kill, another player is forced to join a dungeon that is partially cleared.
    Fact: When one person leaves a dungeon group, the other players are getting their time wasted.

    All three I've covered in previous posts of mine.
    Oh well then, BAN THEM ALL!

    Alternatively, get over it, it takes about 20 seconds.
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  14. #154
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    Oh well then, BAN THEM ALL!

    Alternatively, get over it, it takes about 20 seconds.
    No need for banishment, only punishment.

    Which is what this entire thread is about.

  15. #155
    Pit Lord tommypilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    No need for banishment, only punishment.

    Which is what this entire thread is about.
    Yeah, how dare people waste twenty seconds of your time! Dungeon quitters, those lightwell assholes, and NPC coverers are ruining WoW! It is so selfish of them and utterly morally wrong. Punishment is too good for them, BANISHMENT IS TOO GOOD FOR THEM!

    Executions at dawn are needed, clearly.
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  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    No need for banishment, only punishment.

    Which is what this entire thread is about.
    Yeah, punishing players who no longer wish to play with you.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I, I, I. That's the issue with LFD. People don't view themselves as part of a group, it's about themselves, fuck the other people. One reason I run with guild groups is people like you and the fact is that LFD usually finds a replacement for someone who leaves so it's not even the inconvenience for me. It's dealing with people like you who play an MMO but view the rest of us as mere tools to get YOU something.
    Of course people view the system that way though. Most people have very restricted playtime, in that time they have to do dailies, grind dungeons for gear, meet whatever commitments they have to their guild etc. Of course all of those things are more important to me (and others) than the wants of random Warlock #577, my priorities would be pretty fucked up if I put some random dude in a LFD first ahead of my actual commitments to actual people I play with regularly as use of my limited gametime.

    'People like me' are being sensible and responding to the system in a rational way. We didn't design it, we're just trying to meet the requirements, there's no point hating on us for it. Different people enjoy the game in different ways, you're letting the way someone else enjoys the game get under your skin way to much for something that isn't actually hurting you at all. I could understand all this rage if it was, but it really isn't, so with that kind of situation it should just be live and let live. It isn't worth being angry at people about.

  18. #158
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommypilgrim View Post
    Yeah, how dare people waste twenty seconds an undetermined amount of your time! Dungeon quitters, those lightwell assholes, and NPC coverers are ruining WoW! It is so selfish of them and utterly morally wrong. Punishment is too good for them, BANISHMENT IS TOO GOOD FOR THEM!

    Executions at dawn are needed, clearly.
    Fixed that for you.

    Also, where did you get the whole tyrant about NPC blockers and people who don't use lightwell? Not really sure they are on topic... or even relevant at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    Yeah, punishing players who no longer wish to play with you.
    Perhaps they shouldn't be playing at all?
    Last edited by Chry; 2012-10-12 at 12:54 AM.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Chry View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    Also, where did you get the whole tyrant about NPC blockers and people who don't use lightwell? Not really sure they are on topic... or even relevant at all.
    How can you call that tyrannical when you want the same punishment for people who have actual rl issues?

  20. #160
    Brewmaster Chry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    How can you call that tyrannical when you want the same punishment for people who have actual rl issues?
    If they have real life issues, then they shouldn't queue up for the dungeon at all.

    Remember people, I don't care about random individuals leaving. That's fine, I understand there's real life happening.

    However, I do care about people leaving after they win a piece of loot - because it was premeditated. They knew they were going to go in there, fight their way to that boss, take the loot if it dropped and leave right after it gets put in their bags. It's just rude.

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