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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Catalept View Post
    Well, the extent to which people aren't already trying to get themselves kicked demonstrates how ineffective the deserter debuff is, doesn't it? Although I'd like to think that only a small subset of the people who think it's ok to leave early are pathological enough to deliberately grief a group so they can get kicked... perhaps I'm wrong, though.

    I suppose it's the age-old problem of designing a reward-punishment system when you're trying to manage the behavior of people who don't care about the punishment. In which case, I guess the answer for WoW is the same as that in real life... "Sorry about the sociopaths. We've done the best we can, but I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with them."
    If you increase the penalty in leaving, people will be more motivated to get out of the instance without leaving. Yes, the debuff is ineffective, but a harsher penalty definitely won't be a quality of life improvement for those who don't leave dungeons. There shouldn't be a penalty harsh enough to keep someone in a group they don't want to be in. The person who wants to leave gets a negative attitude and the group has to deal with it. Nobody wins.

  2. #182
    Two horrible suggestions which either:

    A. penalize players who has to leave by removing gear that they worked for and won fairly

    or

    B. hold players hands to compensate for drop rates instead of encouraging them to find other paths/options in building their gear sets.

    Honestly, if you want to solve dungeon quitting and ninjaing there is a pretty obvious solution staring right at you:

    Form your own group and set your own rules.

    Otherwise, you are queuing for random dungeons which often have random results, which include ninjaing, bad players, quitters, disconnecters and all the rest.

    There is a reason you get a buff/bonus for doing random dungeon groups - because they are generally inferior/less predictable in terms of quality compared to a group you make on your own.

    Blizzard already gave lazy players a way of making easy groups - now you want them to give you a way to get guaranteed loot as well? At some point they are just playing the game for you.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by klorehore View Post
    I think these ideas are interesting, however with the ninjas I also wish people who already owns an item (have it in their bank or in their bags) will be unable to roll need on the item again
    So i cant have 2 items different enchanted? Nice one...

  4. #184
    I would've stayed if i didnt double everyones dps!
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    #1 Grinding dungeons for gear takes time, I don't want it to take any longer than necessary, so I quit when I do/don't get something I'm chasing. I don't find 30 VP enough incentive to stay, I do my random for 60 daily but won't finish any others unless I need something off the last boss. They need a better end reward to justify time spent, random item is not worth it.

    As far as the timer goes it wont work for forcing people to stay. They'll just afk for 5 minutes or until they're kicked, or just log off until they're kicked. Can't make people stay where they don't want to be.

    10 dungeons for an epic is massively unfair, might as well just tell everyone with a real job to go fuck themselves because they'll have no chance of competing with the people who can grind 10+ dungeons a day.

    #2 They could just implement the system they already have for LFR.
    This is what LFD does to people. You would rather afk for 5 minutes and annoy 4 other people instead of just finishing the dungeon in 5 minutes. If 5 minutes of your life is worth so much then why do you play videogames? Since when is your 5 minutes worth more than the time of 4 other people anyway?

    Why do you need rewards to stay? Your parents never taught you some decency?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 07:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Azatos View Post
    Enough said. Sometimes rl issues pop up when in the middle of a dungeon, sometimes you only need something off the first boss...no reason someone should be penalized for freeing up a spot for someone else.
    I guess you don't mind waiting 15 minutes again when the tank leaves?
    Last edited by Gilian; 2012-10-15 at 07:13 AM.

  6. #186
    Blizzard has a system in place to encourage players to stay in a group even when the bosses don't drop any good items. Its called a point system. The problem is that points are now useless for a number of reasons.

    1. finding the items you want to buy. there is nowhere in game that lets you see all your point gear options. If you want to buy anything through JP then you are required to go to wowhead/wow armory. If you want to compare your character's items to the vendor's items, then you add in a whole new list of steps.

    2. It takes forever to get JP. By the time i got full heroic dunegon gear i was sitting at 3700 JP. enough to buy 1 item.

    3. If you do any raiding or lfr than you will be in full raid gear before you get the rep to buy valor gear

    4. You get 60 valor for each dungeon. If you plan on grinding any rep than you will get valor capped through dailies.

    5. Finding the vendors. If you know that you can ask people in the new cities for directions then finding the vendors should be easy as long as you are willing to take multiple trips from the city to quest hubs. Your other options is wowhead. It doesn't help that most of the vendors are a good distance away from the quest givers.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    If you increase the penalty in leaving, people will be more motivated to get out of the instance without leaving. Yes, the debuff is ineffective, but a harsher penalty definitely won't be a quality of life improvement for those who don't leave dungeons. There shouldn't be a penalty harsh enough to keep someone in a group they don't want to be in. The person who wants to leave gets a negative attitude and the group has to deal with it. Nobody wins.
    And nobody wins when the tanks leaves and no one wants to wait and your whole group disbands.

    They can just as well make dungeons solo instead of 5 man because no one gives a crap anymore anyway. Dungeons are only about loot and how fast you can finish them so why not give that to the majority.

  8. #188
    Titan Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    And nobody wins when the tanks leaves and no one wants to wait and your whole group disbands.

    They can just as well make dungeons solo instead of 5 man because no one gives a crap anymore anyway. Dungeons are only about loot and how fast you can finish them so why not give that to the majority.
    Because the MMO is in MMORPG for a reason.

    My solution to this problem; replace the random dungeon rewards with a weekly quest that has you complete seven heroic dungeons (of your choice) giving you a total of 420 valor points and x gold as a reward.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Because the MMO is in MMORPG for a reason.

    My solution to this problem; replace the random dungeon rewards with a weekly quest that has you complete seven heroic dungeons (of your choice) giving you a total of 420 valor points and x gold as a reward.
    Nice that it's in the name but if you read this thread most people don't care.

  10. #190
    Part of your solution 1 is already in the game. It's called valor points...as you only get them if you complete the run
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  11. #191
    Titan Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpeddakota View Post
    Part of your solution 1 is already in the game. It's called valor points...as you only get them if you complete the run
    From personal experience, there are certain dungeons I would rather not do even with the point incentive. Grim Batol during Cata, for example.

    This way, it enables people to queue for specific instances for gear-farming purposes while providing them the rewards.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  12. #192
    Elemental Lord Tastyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesurfer View Post
    Seriously, someone help me understand the issue with droppers. I never drop, but when people do the spot gets filled in 30 seconds. Why are people freaking out? I would rather they leave than stay and ark or just grief, because that would happen.

    And what about an honest DC? How do you differentiate that from someone pulling their cable?
    It's about being in control of as many people as possible so a few don't have to be inconvenienced, at the cost of inconveniencing many others.

    But you know what? If im going for that epic mace in jade temple and walk into a grp, i'm expected to heal with a pally, druid, shaman and priest, I'm still going to leave.
    If I complete one boss and the tank is in greens and it's a fucking chore to heal, I'm still going to leave.
    Oh well.
    Last edited by Tastyfish; 2012-10-15 at 07:42 AM.
    “Expect to feel pleasure. Knowledge is sexy. Expect to feel pain. Knowledge is torture. ”
    Jeff Noon, Vurt
    Scientism is ripe on MMOC ,so is the lack of understanding that science is a tool ,not an organizing principle

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    From personal experience, there are certain dungeons I would rather not do even with the point incentive. Grim Batol during Cata, for example.

    This way, it enables people to queue for specific instances for gear-farming purposes while providing them the rewards.
    Oh I hated that as well. Which is why blizzard should have all mounts on final bosses not middle bosses.
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  14. #194
    First idea is bad, second is good but I believe blizzard are already working on it.

  15. #195
    People that get gear and leave dungeon after that should get a 192 hour debuff to que up again. Gots my vote

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    I'm not there for valor, I'm there for specific item pieces. Wasting my time staying somewhere I don't need to be once I'm past the boss I want is good time management, not shooting myself in the foot. I don't really give a shit if it slowly adds up. It's too slow, I do not have enough time in my life to indulge like that. As far as justice goes I've been justice capped since the xpac dropped and still have nothing to spend it on, the justice rewards are literally worthless.
    I started playing in 2007, and back then that behavior was total bull shit, and not acceptable, if you want to be part of the group you must accept if an item wouldn't drop for you, it doesn't mean you can behave like an ass and leave.

  17. #197
    Titan Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seweryn View Post
    I started playing in 2007, and back then that behavior was total bull shit, and not acceptable, if you want to be part of the group you must accept if an item wouldn't drop for you, it doesn't mean you can behave like an ass and leave.
    Back then there wasn't a dungeon finder that automatically looked for replacements.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    20 min to half hour queue (my main is DPS) + 20 min - half hour in the dungeon = ~8 hours to run 10 dungeons if you're actually doing them random, which I generally am. That's basically a full work day on top of my full work day. Sure I can do other stuff while queuing but I'm still basically tied to the computer/game. Add that to the 14 hours a day I spend doing work related stuff (counting travel time to and from work there as well to be fair), and when exactly do I see my family/friends or sleep? 10 randoms a day if you want to keep up is not a reasonable expectation to have of an adult.
    You really do not need to get this item one day, this is an mmo so it is about long haul

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    Now, with that out of the way, If I have to quit, you don't know the reason. I might be sick, I might have an irl emergency, Maybe it's raid time.
    Ah the old "I could have an emergency!" It's amazing how many of you have emergencies when you play.

    Oh and if it's raid time? Well, as an RL there was nothing more annoying than that one player who was in a dungeon at raid time. Hey, you know what? Be available and at the raid at raid time. It's not like it's a secret time or anything.

  20. #200
    How about taking gold coins a step further?

    For every boss in a dungeon you kill, you get a coin. When you finish the dungeon you get to choose what boss you want to use your coins on and what spec you roll in favor of, except for the last boss where only one coin is available simply to reduce people trying to mass stack for the epics.

    Sorted. Encourages finishing the dungeon and no one is gonna ninja.

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